This generation?

[VictoryinJesus]

VIJ,

Can I suggest that you are trying to make sense out of a bad "technical" translation which hides the time period being spoken of from our comprehension. The Hebrew Interlinear in both cases state the same thing with respect to the time period of "two ages," i.e. a period of 2 x one thousand plus years. Below is the Hebrew Interlinear for both the Joel and Isaiah passages that you have referenced in the above two posts: -

Joel 2:2: -

View attachment 18398

Which I would paraphrase as: -

2 A day of darkness and gloominess,

A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning {clouds} spread over the mountains,
A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;[1]
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations/Neither will it be repeated until the passage of two ages has past.​

[1] A word for word translation would possibly read: - “The likes of which has not been for a time beyond remembrance;”.

and

Isaiah 58:12: -

View attachment 18400

Which I would paraphrase as: -

12 Those from among you

Shall build the old waste places;
You shall raise up the foundations of many generations/two ages;
And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach,
The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In. ​

Isaiah also repeated this in: -

Isaiah 61:4​

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,

They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations/two ages.​

Looking back over the history of the past 2 x 1000 plus years we can now see and understand the scriptural passages where the Hebrew words "dowr waadowr" has been used in the Hebrew text as "two ages."

I trust that this helps.

Shalom

it does help. I could not read the images though because when I clicked them for me they were blurry. And I tried to look up other versions to see where you come up with “two ages” but could not find it, the closest being ‘age unto age’?

what are the “two ages”?

 

[Jay Ross]

it does help. I could not read the images though because when I clicked them for me they were blurry. And I tried to look up other versions to see where you come up with “two ages” but could not find it, the closest being ‘age unto age’?

what are the “two ages”?

The passing of the two ages is from when the iniquities of the Fathers upon their children and their children's children in the third and the fourth age of the existence of Isaac. The end of these two ages occurs when the nations are gathered at Armageddon to be judged for trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts, i.e. the nation of Israel, from around 250 BC until approximately 20-25 years into our future when this present age ends. During the past 2,000 plus years God has walked contrary to Israel because of their idolatrous worship. The history of the Jews over the past 2,000 or so years confirms this fact.

Shalom

 

[Robert Gwin]

I’m not sure what my view is on a coming ‘great tribulation’ as is usually proposed, because Joel 2:1 speaks of ‘TO many generations’
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, For the day of the LORD is coming (to come in) surely it is near.

A day of darkness and gloom
A day of clouds and thick darkness.
As dawn is spread over the mountains, [So] there is a great people; There has never been [anything] like it, Nor Will there be again after it To the years of many generations.

for the sake of conversation, to me the above speaks of as: a Tribulation like never before and will ever be again IN [So] there is a great and mighty people, There has never been [anything] like it, NOR will there be again after it To the years of many generations.

TO the years of many generations…seems to to not be saying upon a single generation in a far out small window of a time period, but To the years of many generations. Could say upon a perverse generation, a wicked generation as all are counted as under sin through Adam.

to me it is speaking of a people that gather, in other places He mentions they gather ‘to battle’ but not by Me. (Isaiah 54:14-17)Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

As in ‘He that gathers not with Me, is against Me.’ In Joel He tells of a so great and mighty people —behind them a desolate wilderness (devastation, waste) where nothing at all escapes. Yet in the NT He says He provides an way of escape. This great and mighty people —great tribulation—like has never been nor will ever be again…Like the crackling of a flame of fire consuming the stubble, like a mighty people arranged unto battle To the years of many generations

before them the people are in anguish. they run, climb, they enter through the windows like a thief. 2 Timothy 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

“YET even now” declares the LORD(in Joel) “Return to Me” with all your heart, with fast, weeping and mourning (a wailing) (James 4:8-10.

Speaking of a great and mighty people like never before and will never be again, same as a great tribulation ‘like never before nor will be again’ To many generations… what of ‘they came (snuck, crept) in unawares among the brethren? With Watch so that day, coming a thief does not catch you unaware? Or caught off guard? For ‘It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.’ Hebrews 10:31-34

We do not believe the great tribulation has began yet maam. The great tribulation culminating with the battle of Armageddon is not an ending point, rather a beginning so to speak. The signs Jesus gave that included the tribulation, was about the end of the age, not the end of humans. We pray for the end of the age Vicky, and close with some of the words of the closing of the Bible, Amen! Come Lord Jesus!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The passing of the two ages is from when the iniquities of the Fathers upon their children and their children's children in the third and the fourth age of the existence of Isaac. The end of these two ages occurs when the nations are gathered at Armageddon to be judged for trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts, i.e. the nation of Israel, from around 250 BC until approximately 20-25 years into our future when this present age ends. During the past 2,000 plus years God has walked contrary to Israel because of their idolatrous worship. The history of the Jews over the past 2,000 or so years confirms this fact.

Shalom

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto (salvation) eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

To be better clear (right or wrong) I could see your point of a better translation being “two ages” or “age unto age” because in my thoughts I was thinking of ‘sin unto death’ as an age, as grace reigns through righteousness unto the appearing of the Lord, as regeneration in Him. I’m not asserting that is right but I’m only clarifying where my mind is to help you better understand where I’m coming from for clarity. As in having passed from ‘death unto Life’ (from age unto age) or having passed from ‘darkness unto Life’ (from age unto age). His word speaks of ‘this generation’ giving details in ‘they marry and are given In marriage’ but through the resurrection ‘the generation to come’ they neither marry or are given in marriage? Speaking of only two ‘this age’ and the ‘age to come’? So I could see your point of a better translation could possibly be “two ages”: ‘this age’ and the ‘age to come’. Sin unto death. Or grace; righteousness unto Life.


concerning Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Get you are not liking the above translation but where it speaks of ‘thou shall raise up’ I think of Christ saying or promising ‘if I be lifted up’ I will draw all men unto Me. What generations are excluded and therefore ‘not unto many’ even to those far out in that He reconciled both unto God, having broken down the middle partition between them making of two One?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We do not believe the great tribulation has began yet maam. The great tribulation culminating with the battle of Armageddon is not an ending point, rather a beginning so to speak. The signs Jesus gave that included the tribulation, was about the end of the age, not the end of humans. We pray for the end of the age Vicky, and close with some of the words of the closing of the Bible, Amen! Come Lord Jesus!

with all due respect that makes no sense to me. I’m not meaning your words do not make sense because you are very clear. What doesn’t make sense to me is the expectation of this coming Armageddon. For me,
Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

With Hebrews 13:12-15 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. [14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. [15] By him (Philippians 1:11-12)therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

The above made me reconsider my previous ideas on ‘the winepress trodden without the city’ and the blood that come forth out of the winepress … the sacrifice of praise to God continually…the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name.

but I do get where you are coming from because I grew up hearing about a coming great tribulation (possibly not great in my time but great way off in the future where I was left asking …then why the warnings to put on the whole armour of God? For a spiritual battle that is squeezed into a seven year time span at the end most will never see or need to endure?) …I doubt anything I would say would change your mind.

 

[Robert Gwin]

with all due respect that makes no sense to me. I’m not meaning your words do not make sense because you are very clear. What doesn’t make sense to me is the expectation of this coming Armageddon. For me,
Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

With Hebrews 13:12-15 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. [14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. [15] By him (Philippians 1:11-12)therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

The above made me reconsider my previous ideas on ‘the winepress trodden without the city’ and the blood that come forth out of the winepress … the sacrifice of praise to God continually…the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name.

but I do get where you are coming from because I grew up hearing about a coming great tribulation (possibly not great in my time but great way off in the future where I was left asking …then why the warnings to put on the whole armour of God? For a spiritual battle that is squeezed into a seven year time span at the end most will never see or need to endure?) …I doubt anything I would say would change your mind.

There are things in the Bible yet to be fulfilled Vicky, the prophecy written is being fulfilled right before our eyes and is quite easy to see. It has been nearly 2k yrs since Jesus taught us to pray for God's Kingdom to come, and we are rapidly nearing the fulfillment of that request. No doubt you too have prayed for that very thing, but perhaps unaware of what you were asking for. Armageddon is a good thing, as it is just another name applied to the return of Jesus and his removing the wicked from the earth. Our deliverance is near maam.

 

[Jay Ross]

There are things in the Bible yet to be fulfilled Vicky, the prophecy written is being fulfilled right before our eyes and is quite easy to see. It has been nearly 2k yrs since Jesus taught us to pray for God's Kingdom to come, and we are rapidly nearing the fulfillment of that request. No doubt you too have prayed for that very thing, but perhaps unaware of what you were asking for. Armageddon is a good thing, as it is just another name applied to the return of Jesus and his removing the wicked from the earth. Our deliverance is near maam.

Perhaps your deliverance is near in time for you, but for me it is available to me now. All I have to do is believe in Him Whom He sent, and His kingdom will be established in me. This is also what the Saints of the Millennium Age have to do as well.

The next age, which starts in around 25 years time, is the summer season of harvest for souls during the first 1,000 years up and until the time when the Bottomless Pit will be unlocked for a little while period that follows as the age draws towards it end. Then all of the "Saints" alive from that time onwards when the Bottomless pit is opened will be tested with fire and tribulation to refine them and to purify them so that they can enter into the Kingdom of God after the final judgement to receive their inheritance through Christ.

This is the generation/age that Christ referenced in Matthew 24:34.

Shalom

 

[marks]

The key to understanding what Jesus meant by “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” is the context; that is, we must understand the verses that are surrounding Matthew 24:34, especially the verses prior to it. In Matthew 24:4–31, Jesus is clearly giving a prophecy; He is speaking of future events. Jesus had already told those living during His earthly ministry that the kingdom had been taken from them (Matthew 21:43). Therefore, it is imperative that Matthew 24–25 be seen as dealing with a future time. The generation that Jesus speaks of “not passing” until He returns is a future generation, namely, the people living when the predicted events occur. The word generation refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24–25 take place.

Jesus’ point in His statement, “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place,” is that the events of the end times will happen quickly. Once the signs of the end begin to be observed, the end is well on the way—the second coming and the judgment will occur within that last generation. Jesus reinforced this meaning with a parable in Matthew 24:32–33: “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.” A sure sign of summer is the leafing of the fig tree; a sure sign of the end of the world is that “all these things” (of Matthew 24) are taking place. Those who are on the earth then will have only a short time left.

Taken from gotquestions.org

Jesus had just prophesied that there would be such great tribulation that no one would survive it if He didn't come back to stop it. And He says, for the sake of the elect, it's cut short. And He goes on to affirm that they would not be fully destroyed before He returned. Generation, here in this context, I believe refers to the nation of Israel.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Luke 23:27-28 KJV
[27] And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. [28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
This is speaking of the Jews of that specific generation.

 

[Waiting on him]

Psalm 102:18-23 ‘this shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the Lord.

God’s creation began with Jesus and Him only. Contrary to popular belief no man/woman is created of God prior to having received the breath of life commonly referred to as the Holy Spirit in which he then becomes a new creature.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Perhaps your deliverance is near in time for you, but for me it is available to me now. All I have to do is believe in Him Whom He sent, and His kingdom will be established in me. This is also what the Saints of the Millennium Age have to do as well.

The next age, which starts in around 25 years time, is the summer season of harvest for souls during the first 1,000 years up and until the time when the Bottomless Pit will be unlocked for a little while period that follows as the age draws towards it end. Then all of the "Saints" alive from that time onwards when the Bottomless pit is opened will be tested with fire and tribulation to refine them and to purify them so that they can enter into the Kingdom of God after the final judgement to receive their inheritance through Christ.

This is the generation/age that Christ referenced in Matthew 24:34.

Shalom

We too believe it is near Jay, personally I don't think it will be another 25 years as the generation is quite old, but it could be if one understands who is of the generation. The citizens of the Kingdom are being gathered now as you mentioned, but as the Bible teaches most of us will not come to life for at least another millennium Rev 20:5. For all the earthly people of God, we still have to be tested as was Adam with the releasing of satan from the abyss. One would think it would be easy to pass this test, but consider: (Revelation 20:7, 8) . . .Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

That sir is a lot of people who will choose to side with him. Makes you wonder huh Jay.

 

[Jay Ross]

We too believe it is near Jay, personally I don't think it will be another 25 years as the generation is quite old, but it could be if one understands who is of the generation. The citizens of the Kingdom are being gathered now as you mentioned, but as the Bible teaches most of us will not come to life for at least another millennium Rev 20:5. For all the earthly people of God, we still have to be tested as was Adam with the releasing of Satan from the abyss. One would think it would be easy to pass this test, but consider: (Revelation 20:7, 8) . . .Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

That sir is a lot of people who will choose to side with him. Makes you wonder huh Jay.

It seems to me that you have not presented what you believe is happening fully so that others can grasp what you are stating.

I sense in my spirit there is something missing from what you are posting and that you have not presented what you actually believe.

Now when you stated that the "citizens of the Kingdom are being gathered now," that is true, in that there are people who are coming to believe that Jesus is the Son of God. However, God is waiting until the end of this present age before He will beginning gathering the Israelites to Himself, and He will plant them in the fertile field of Israel, i.e. Christ, and will them them on the mountain, i.e. religion, of Israel, i.e. Christ, where they were scattered throughout the whole of the earth in the valleys and beside the rivers where they are presently living, and He will sprinkle them with water, to cleanse them and will re-enter into, and will remake with them, the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations Covenant, like He made with them at Mt Sinai, which they rebelled against within 40 days.

Then the nation of Israel will become the priests to show all the gentile people the way into a righteous relationship with God and this is the time of the Summer Harvest time that Christ mentioned specifically in Matthew 24:32 for the generation that begins after the Armageddon Judgement of the Kings of the Earth in the valley of Judgement on the earth. At this same time, Satan and his heavenly hosts are judged in the heavens such that no place is found for them in heaven and they end up on the face of the earth to be locked up in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years with the judged kings of the earth, to stop their interference in the affairs of the people of the earth. Then after the 1,000 years are over, they will be released for a little while and those who are in the Bottomless pit will rise up out of the pit and go to war against the Saints at that time and bring tribulation upon the people/saints of the earth, before they are captured once again and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Then and only then will Christ come in all of His Glory with all of the Heavenly Hosts to Judge the peoples of the earth.

He will then separate the righteous from the unrighteous and those who are not in the Book of Life will be sent into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death, and the righteous will receive their inheritance, as promised to Abraham five ages before, of the whole earth.

Shalom

 

[Robert Gwin]

It seems to me that you have not presented what you believe is happening fully so that others can grasp what you are stating.

I sense in my spirit there is something missing from what you are posting and that you have not presented what you actually believe.

Now when you stated that the "citizens of the Kingdom are being gathered now," that is true, in that there are people who are coming to believe that Jesus is the Son of God. However, God is waiting until the end of this present age before He will beginning gathering the Israelites to Himself, and He will plant them in the fertile field of Israel, i.e. Christ, and will them them on the mountain, i.e. religion, of Israel, i.e. Christ, where they were scattered throughout the whole of the earth in the valleys and beside the rivers where they are presently living, and He will sprinkle them with water, to cleanse them and will re-enter into, and will remake with them, the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations Covenant, like He made with them at Mt Sinai, which they rebelled against within 40 days.

Then the nation of Israel will become the priests to show all the gentile people the way into a righteous relationship with God and this is the time of the Summer Harvest time that Christ mentioned specifically in Matthew 24:32 for the generation that begins after the Armageddon Judgement of the Kings of the Earth in the valley of Judgement on the earth. At this same time, Satan and his heavenly hosts are judged in the heavens such that no place is found for them in heaven and they end up on the face of the earth to be locked up in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years with the judged kings of the earth, to stop their interference in the affairs of the people of the earth. Then after the 1,000 years are over, they will be released for a little while and those who are in the Bottomless pit will rise up out of the pit and go to war against the Saints at that time and bring tribulation upon the people/saints of the earth, before they are captured once again and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Then and only then will Christ come in all of His Glory with all of the Heavenly Hosts to Judge the peoples of the earth.

He will then separate the righteous from the unrighteous and those who are not in the Book of Life will be sent into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death, and the righteous will receive their inheritance, as promised to Abraham five ages before, of the whole earth.

Shalom

The gathering of the new nation of Israel began on Pentecost of 33 Jay. The Israel of God made up was existing in Pauls day sir Gal 6:16. The gathering may be complete, but all of them have not been taken from the earth yet, they will do that upon Jesus' return. Remember the Israel of God is made up of people from all nations, tribes, and tongues Rev 5:9 not just fleshly Israel.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are things in the Bible yet to be fulfilled Vicky, the prophecy written is being fulfilled right before our eyes and is quite easy to see. It has been nearly 2k yrs since Jesus taught us to pray for God's Kingdom to come, and we are rapidly nearing the fulfillment of that request. No doubt you too have prayed for that very thing, but perhaps unaware of what you were asking for. Armageddon is a good thing, as it is just another name applied to the return of Jesus and his removing the wicked from the earth. Our deliverance is near maam.

A question in following along in responses here. How many generations have you known?

 

[Jay Ross]

The gathering of the new nation of Israel began on Pentecost of 33 Jay. The Israel of God made up was existing in Pauls day sir Gal 6:16. The gathering may be complete, but all of them have not been taken from the earth yet, they will do that upon Jesus' return. Remember the Israel of God is made up of people from all nations, tribes, and tongues Rev 5:9 not just fleshly Israel.

The New Living Translation may give you that impression, however, a quick scan of the Greek Texts tells a very different story.

 

[Robert Gwin]

A question in following along in responses here. How many generations have you known?

Never been asked that before Vicky, after thinking on it a while, in my family only 3, but from other families, 5. Why the question maam?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The New Living Translation may give you that impression, however, a quick scan of the Greek Texts tells a very different story.

Time will reveal the accuracy sir.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Never been asked that before Vicky, after thinking on it a while, in my family only 3, but from other families, 5. Why the question maam?

why the question? Because I’ve considered the same question and (right or wrong) for me I would say distinctly two generations. ‘This generation’…yet Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world (age)to come…

2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

To be clear which I struggle with so much.How I have a family, and generations including my grandma, grandpa, mother, father, children, grandchildren; then by marriage all my husbands generation…

but then what of the friend that came by last night to give me a devotional she bought for me with an inscription on the inside that read: from your sister in Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Never been asked that before Vicky, after thinking on it a while, in my family only 3, but from other families, 5. Why the question maam?

Could also suggest two in:
Our generations
And His generation.
Where He partook of ours (flesh and blood)
That we may partake of His generation?

 

[Jay Ross]

Time will reveal the accuracy sir.

Yes, time will reveal all things, but for those who have backed the wrong horse, so to speak, or understanding as in what you are suggesting, it may be too too late by then.