Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[BarneyFife]

Paul mentions the law of Christ....find a scriptural explanation for that one.

To whom do the ten commandments belong? :)

 

[Grailhunter]

To whom do the ten commandments belong? :)

Everything in Heaven and Earth belongs to God.
But if you are talking about 10 of the 14 summary of laws in Exodus chaper 20....those are not what God called the Ten Commandments and not what He told Moses to write on the Two Tablets of the Testimony. That is over in chapter 34.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have some chapter and verse that many people tend to ignore and they probably think that God Could NOT have been “ Serious” when He said it......” Where Sin abounds , Grace abounds that much more.....” Do you have anything to “ top” that?”

"...where sin increased, grace increased all the more..." Romans 5:20
​

Now the rest of the story (the part Hyper Grace theology leaves out)... ↓↓↓

"Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?"

14 ...sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Romans 6:1-14
​

Grace makes it so sin is not your master anymore, and so you don't live in it anymore. Hyper Grace theology says grace makes it so you can live in sin and it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Tong2020]

I was hoping a simple answer to my question would help clear up the contradiction, real or perceived, that I see in what you have said about the 1 Corinthians 15 passage under discussion.

You can quote that part of what I said and give your refutation. That would be the proper and good way to go.

Tong
R4374

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You can quote that part of what I said and give your refutation. That would be the proper and good way to go.

Tong
R4374

You said 1 Corinthians 15:1 means they were saved when Paul preached to them, right?

 

[marks]

Hyper Grace theology says grace makes it so you can live in sin and it doesn't matter anymore.

And your theology . . . what . . . you don't sin? Or you do? But you only sin once each, so you're not "living in it"? Or your sins are not in unbelief, you only sin in faith?

Or, your sins are "OK" because you feel bad about it?

Or, "little sins" that remain as "little habits" mostly seen only by others, these don't count? Or they do?

Is there consistency here?

Where?

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

You said 1 Corinthians 15:1 means they were saved when Paul preached to them, right?

This is what I said in one of my post:

What Paul preached to them was the true gospel. As such it is the gospel Paul understood of them to have received and believed in their heart. Now to believe in the heart means to receive, accept, trust, hold dear, and stand firm. Such is the gospel by which they are saved if they have really believed it in their heart.

And here’s what you said that I agreed with:

Paul preached the real gospel to them and they received it and took their stand on it.

Tong
R4375

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is what I said in one of my post:



And here’s what you said that I agreed with:



Tong
R4375

Okay, but what did you mean, then, by the 'not really' saved stuff you were talking about? Clarification appreciated.

 

[post]

I guess you do not know that at the time when the discussion about the Bereans appears, the Gospels had not been written yet. There no reference to written Gospels in the Bible.

A better resurrection scenario appears in Danial. And God can be a redeemer and He referred to Himself as a redeemer but the Jews were not looking for the Messiah to be a God....That was one of the big difficulties that Yeshua had. It was considered blasphemy for someone to declare themselves as a God....Now some of these Jews knew Him as a child and knew His family....for Him to stand up and say He was the Son of God to these Jews....would have ended His ministry very quickly.

The Jews were looking for a human Messiah that was junior in their religious beliefs to Elijah. That was one of the reasons they believed Elijah would introduce the Messiah. But during the centuries before Christ, history shows that the Jews were sizing up various Jewish military leaders to be the Messiah and lead the revolt against the Romans. Another reason that they took issue with Yeshua, because they were not looking for a peaceful Messiah. Look up the term Zealots.

To put things in the Old Testament in an accurate perspective.....
God never promised the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews that they would go to Heaven. Never said it would be a destination for humans. Never said that Heaven would be a reward for following His Laws. As far as the Jews were concerned, Heaven was where God lived. Even the status of Angels was a mystery for the Old Testament Jews.....

God never threatened the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews with Hell in the Old Testament. All punishments for breaking His Laws would result from His wrath in this world. Sacrifices were not made to get forgiveness from God but rather to appease His wrath. The blood of lambs and goats could not cover the sins of the Jews. To this day, the Jews do not believe in Hell. Now Sheol is another matter but the Jews do not consider it a place of punishment and Christians do not have defined religious beliefs regarding Sheol. Heaven and Hell is the only destinations that they consider.

Neither God or the prophets ever spoke to anyone about a devil. The Hebrews/Israelites/Jews were not warned about an evil entity that would tempt them. In the Old Testament, Hell is not referenced as a place for the devil or a destination for people that sinned. The Jews figured they sinned on their own accord, due to their own poor character. To this day...modern Jews do not believe in a devil.

In Christ time, if Yeshua told them He came to save them. Why would have asked, save us from what?
But not all, because their were Jews that believed in Heaven, and Hell, and Angels and the devil, and the resurrection, during Christ's ministry. Now where these beliefs actually came from is hard to prove, but they did not last long. Scholars suggest that the Jews knew of such things from the Persians and Zoroastrianism and since that was Pagan, the Jewish religion actually discarded those beliefs.

Now modern Jews do have some beliefs regarding the afterlife but it varies within the sects of Judaism.
Afterlife in Judaism

um... is eternal life a place or is it a person? see John 17:3
search your Bible like a good Berean OK

the Jews didn't understand their prophets and their law -- or they would have expected exactly the Messiah that they received. see Luke 24:27, consider why the Magi showed up but the scribes didn't.
'MyJewishLearning' is a useful site but not for interpretation of prophecy.

you ain't gonna find a grail like that, Mssr. Hunter.

 

[post]

Would Adam Sandler really DO such a thing?

jejejeje

 

[Grailhunter]

um... is eternal life a place or is it a person? see John 17:3
search your Bible like a good Berean OK

Here and in other posts I am concerned....for you....in a manner of distant perspective....because I believe in freedom of religion, but you seem to come to the Bible with an interest in the obscure and confused. The problem with a weaved religion is that it is most likely going to be wrong.

Some people come to the Bible wanting to learn and understand, from the biblical perspective.
Some people come to the Bible with their beliefs already set and pick out scriptures to support their already determined beliefs.
Some people come to the Bible with issues....their own issues....and confusion is the manner that they understand and are begrudging those that are not confused. So in their discussions it is going to be all about confusion and obscurity. A kaleidoscope of ideas, concepts and beliefs that never focus to be a congruent picture.

the Jews didn't understand their prophets and their law -- or they would have expected exactly the Messiah that they received. see Luke 24:27, consider why the Magi showed up but the scribes didn't.
'MyJewishLearning' is a useful site but not for interpretation of prophecy.

Because the Christians understand the Hebrew Bible better than the Jews....
Because the Voodoo priests understand the New Testament better than the Christians.
It is a false perspective. Christians have had 2000 years to Christianize the Hebrew Bible. Their hindsight analyses is usually incorrect. Plus the fact that there has been around 38,000 modifications to the Hebrew Bible it takes a lot of work to recover the accuracy and until we find more Paleo-Hebrew scripts it may never be fully understood.

For the Fundamentalists the Magi is one of those enigmas that is not going to be understood. Magi means sorcerer or sorceress and in some applications magkins or magicians. A very uncomfortable topic as seen in that they were compelled to falsify the scriptures by changing the word in the New Testament and traditions to wise men or kings. The understanding of their connection to Christ and Christianity is well outside of the perimeters of Fundamentalism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There must have been a million ways to describe Works being done in order to try to “ earn” your way to Heaven.

Yes, look how Peter describes works being done in order to earn your way into heaven...

"...strive to make your calling and election sure." 2 Peter 1:10

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes....I could do that....but it would be Worse than a waste of ink .....it would be Untrue....

You are literally saying John is being untruthful...

"By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God..." 1 John 3:10​

 

[post]

Some people come to the Bible wanting to learn and understand, from the biblical perspective.

Yes
With you on the other hand, when I quote scripture, you scoff at it.
So.
What has been established, may it be established.

 

[post]

Yes, look how Peter describes works being done in order to earn your way into heaven...

"...strive to make your calling and election sure." 2 Peter 1:10

If you read vv. 5-9 you'll see that he isn't talking about performing physical actions but possessing non-physical characteristics.

We are dualistic in substance. The spiritual informs the physical. Salvation is spiritual, and Peter is encouraging us to build up the spiritual man.
As a matter of course works will naturally follow, but Peter isn't writing about works. He's writing about spiritual things.

I don't think you should attack people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works, and that not of ourselves but the gift of God. It is a supernatural event, not a natural event - that is all over the Bible.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you read vv. 5-9 you'll see that he isn't talking about performing physical actions but possessing non-physical characteristics.

We are dualistic in substance. The spiritual informs the physical. Salvation is spiritual, and Peter is encouraging us to build up the spiritual man.
As a matter of course works will naturally follow, but Peter isn't writing about works. He's writing about spiritual things.

"...make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love." 2 Peter 1:5-7

"...let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth." 1 John 3:18
​

Let us make every effort to add to our faith the action of love to make our calling and election sure:

"...strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:10-11​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't think you should attack people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works, and that not of ourselves but the gift of God.

I'm not attacking people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works. I'm 'attacking' those who think the faith that is alone saves.

If your faith is alone, you are an unconverted unbeliever:

"let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. And by this we will know that we belong to the truth" 1 John 3:18-19
​

The Bible warns us about this so we can know if we are really saved or not and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. I've noticed this message comes across as an attack to unbelievers, not believers.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes
With you on the other hand, when I quote scripture, you scoff at it.
So.
What has been established, may it be established.

You think that is what I am doing? LOL You need to consider what else I could be doing.

 

[Tong2020]

Okay, but what did you mean, then, by the 'not really' saved stuff you were talking about? Clarification appreciated.

Please quote that part so I could make clarification. Thanks.

Tong
R4376

 

[Truman]

I'm not attacking people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works. I'm 'attacking' those who think the faith that is alone saves.

If your faith is alone, you are an unconverted unbeliever:

"let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. And by this we will know that we belong to the truth" 1 John 3:18-19
​

The Bible warns us about this so we can know if we are really saved or not and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. I've noticed this message comes across as an attack to unbelievers, not believers.

Faith without works is dead. James 2:26