Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[VictoryinJesus]

Victory and I were discussing a verse earlier.
First Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

This verse and the turn the other cheek verse do not workout as a whole. They have a general meaning but not a literal meaning,

The verse on never eating meat again is a matter of consideration for others. Besides the fact that we know that Christians are carnivores, the meaning of the verse is definitely not literal and would not work in practice. For example, Paul goes to a banquet and one person he meets is a vegetarian and gets sick at the sight of meat. The next person he meets cannot stand vegetables. The next person he meets cannot stand fruits. The next person he meets does not like water...(I am one of those persons, by the way.) So if all that is rejected, nothing can be served at the banquet and Paul giving it all up, he would soon die. Be considerate of others is the message. You have to put scriptures in motion and in context to understand them.

I do get what you are saying about not eating meat again as being spiritual and not literal. Significant to me is how if your meat destroys Your brother then you walk not charitable towards your brother. But at the same time I have to ask if the brother has not liberty (knowledge of this Liberty in Christ)then what meat is he refusing to eat (spiritual or literal)sacrificed to idols?


1 Corinthians 8:4-9 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. [5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. [7] Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. [8] But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. [9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. [5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: (Hebrews 11:6)
for they were overthrown in the wilderness. [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. [7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1 Corinthians 8:11-12 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

[10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1 Corinthians 8:11-12 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and practice it not, to him it is sin.

[11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. [12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


“They are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world is come”
Galatians 6:14-15 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Corinthians 8:8-9 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. [9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Personally “if my meat makes my brother to offend I will not eat as long as the world stands” fits or to the age to come. Or with take heed that he who think he stands (in Christ) lest he falls. “They are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world is come”
Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, [21] (Touch not; taste not; handle not; [22] Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

 

[Grailhunter]

I do get what you are saying about not eating meat again as being spiritual and not literal. Significant to me is how if your meat destroys Your brother then you walk not charitable towards your brother. But at the same time I have to ask if the brother has not liberty (knowledge of this Liberty in Christ)then what meat is he refusing to eat (spiritual or literal)sacrificed to idols?

It is just being considerate....as a rule....it does matter if it is meat, or smoking, or drinking or Mayonnaise.
Colossians 2:16 Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day.
There is a difference in saying it is wrong and being considerate of those things that offend people....now having said that....there are people today that try to control what you think, do, and say by playing the "this offends me card."

 

[DPMartin]

This is a very simple message that runs through the whole new testament. Be good and do good...It does not matter it is in word or example...Christ, Paul, John, and Peter...be good and do good...no one is preaching do bad and do bad...just read.


Ahh ya...I totally reject Calvinism. We can be perfected by Christ before God the Father but we told throughout the New Testament to be good and do good.



Obeying Christ has nothing to do with the approval of men. How many dozen of scriptures talk about obeying Christ.



The Bible does not speak of obedience as a game or seeking the approval of men...least as it is today to conform to the morals of the world....so very sad that there are Christians that speak against being good and doing good.

what is this? a set up?

you asked why the site has this that and the other on being good then you change buy giving me kindergarten garbage about what the bibles says. really? the OP you posted is about why this site. i guess you don't know how to stay on point then.

also who cares about what you reject or accept, your approval is not that important, which does lend to what i posted.

 

[Grailhunter]

what is this? a set up?

you asked why the site has this that and the other on being good then you change buy giving me kindergarten garbage about what the bibles says. really? the OP you posted is about why this site. i guess you don't know how to stay on point then.

also who cares about what you reject or accept, your approval is not that important, which does lend to what i posted.

The topic is...why do you feel it is so hard to be good? Not if you should try to be good.
I get the whole you do not care.....where is that scripture....And Christ said, Don't worry about trying to being good....God has already predestined that....if you are good it is of no merit to you and if you are bad it is not your fault....God made you do it either way. LOL

 

[amigo de christo]

The topic is...why do you feel it is so hard to be good? Not if you should try to be good.
I get the whole you do not care.....where is that scripture....And Christ said, Don't worry about trying to be good....God has already predestined that....if you are good it is of no merit to you and if you are bad it is not your fault....God made you do it. LOL

While we all know full well its not our works that saves us , THEY ARE THE VERY PROOF of whose we are and Who dwells within us .
Its not a sin to remind the church to DO GOOD and FLEE evil . JESUS did the same , the aostles did the same .
FOR the SPIRIT produces inside of us those things that are pleasing to GOD .
And sin aint pleasing to GOD . Thus to whom we obey is truly whose we are and belong too .
Now let the KING be praised .

 

[Grailhunter]

While we all know full well its not our works that saves us , THEY ARE THE VERY PROOF of whose we are and Who dwells within us .
Its not a sin to remind the church to DO GOOD and FLEE evil . JESUS did the same , the aostles did the same .
FOR the SPIRIT produces inside of us those things that are pleasing to GOD .
And sin aint pleasing to GOD . Thus to whom we obey is truly whose we are and belong too .
Now let the KING be praised .

Right! Ya know from the outside, what are non-Christians seeing us do? What are other Christians seeing us do. You have heard them say...seeking the approval of men.... Christ did not speak of seeking the approval of men....just the opposite. But he did say we are the light of the world...Matthew 5:14-16. We are the example of Christianity....that lighthouse....this is how Christians lives. That walk with Christ....everyday....he is with you. It makes it so much easier...to know He is there. Making Christianity a lifestyle... making being good and doing good a habit. Christ is there and likes what He sees....and when we fall....and we will....He is there to pick you up and dust you off and send you off smartly....because He knows what you are going to do.

And the neat thing about all of that is that, over time He starts to count on you...putting those in your path that needs help... because He knows what you are going to do...

 

[DPMartin]

The topic is...why do you feel it is so hard to be good? Not if you should try to be good.
I get the whole you do not care.....where is that scripture....And Christ said, Don't worry about trying to being good....God has already predestined that....if you are good it is of no merit to you and if you are bad it is not your fault....God made you do it either way. LOL

what does this say right here?:

BE GOOD AND DO GOOD has become my slogan on this forum.
I feel like the Johnny Appleseed of be good.
Why has it come to this on this forum?.


or can't you read your own writing. you're full of it pal.

 

[Grailhunter]

what does this say right here?:

BE GOOD AND DO GOOD has become my slogan on this forum.
I feel like the Johnny Appleseed of be good.
Why has it come to this on this forum?.


or can't you read your own writing. you're full of it pal.

That is my slogan....not the topic of the thread.
The question to you is what sin(s) do think are hard to avoid?

 

[FHII]

This conversation runs from Titus 1:10-16 mostly and Titus 1:16 is very relevant to this topic.
Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

iagree.i thought I would be replying on Wednesday and didn't... So I am a bit at a loss to the reasonimg as it isn't fresh in my mind.

Titus 1 and its companion verses (Col 2:20-22) are Speaking of JEWISH. commandments of men and fables. These were not the type of things that were saying its ok to sin; in fact, they were more restrictive. Now, there were those who had a relion that led to loose morals. But this isn't the group. Most of the groups responsible came after Paul. However, the Corinthians certainly were guilty and they were during Paul's time.

 

[FHII]

Yeap I am still asking it. And it is a valid question.

Now for some humor I will bring up a comedian.
I don't know if you remember Sam Kinison about world hunger
I cannot copy it in here because he does some cussing.

But essentially he says we should sent U-hauls to Ethiopia instead of food and explain to them that they will continue to starve there because nothing grows there, so they need to go where the good grows.

Love the routine! I remember it! Didn't he also say that perhaps the film crew who were documenting it could've cut someone a break and given them a sandwich?

In all seriousness, yeah, they should leave. But it ain't that easy. I can appreciate the humor, and I was talking about a "poor" neighborhood in the U.S. Thats far better than most middle class neighborhoods in 3rd world countries. I don't think its easy to pack up and leave.

Even so, you are missing the whole point. Leaving a neighborhood or a country or a continent is not the problem. Its about leaving a mindset first.

 

[FHII]

I am going to reissue my position statement on this topic. It may be a bit different than something I said originally, which should be ok... Its growth!

In the NT and gospels especially we receive instruction on morals. It is good and proper to be a good member of society and overall turn away from sin and try to eliminate it.

Grace is not a license to sin (I still deplore that phrase); it is the forgiveness for sins: past present and future. Grace comes from faith, and the duty of every Christian is to increase and nurture their faith in Jesus. What and how much you sin has no bearing on faith unless it hinders it. That may seem like a contradiction, but it isn't. For example, getting drunk is a sin but it doesn't hinder faith UNLESS you are too hung over to come to Church on Sunday (just as an example). We can take that to many other examples.

While grace covers all sins of the flesh and all things are lawful, it doesn't erase the consequences and it is not expedient. I hate to say it, but grace will cover murder, but you are still going to jail and that will hinder your growth in faith.

One thing that I have brought up is pride, and I am not convinced it has been discussed properly. When you set out to be as sinless as possible and you claim to live a near sinless life (I speak in general, not accusing anyone in particular) you run the risk of being proud of your fleshly actions. I only ask you to read Luke 18:10-14 to see what Jesus felt about this.

We are all sinners, and leading a sinless life or even a near sinless life is impossible without grace. Jesus is not looking for a sinless follower; but a faithful follower. Though faith we obtain grace and through truth and understanding, we become a better person in the flesh. But such is not the goal; it is a by product. Seek spiritual things first, then fleshly change may come. But you will never obtain spiritual perfection (which is obtainable) Though fleshly actions.

Even with all of this, I agree with the first and foremost point of this thread: Let love be without dissimulation, abhor that which is evil, cleave to that which is good.

Be kindly affectionate one to another in love. But I say, through the grace given to me, that no one should think more highly of themselves than the ought to.

Or, in short.... Grace covers all your fleshly sins, but that doesn't mean you should be an a******!

And Sam Kinison would've agreed!

 

[Grailhunter]

iagree.i thought I would be replying on Wednesday and didn't... So I am a bit at a loss to the reasonimg as it isn't fresh in my mind.

Titus 1 and its companion verses (Col 2:20-22) are Speaking of JEWISH. commandments of men and fables. These were not the type of things that were saying its ok to sin; in fact, they were more restrictive. Now, there were those who had a relion that led to loose morals. But this isn't the group. Most of the groups responsible came after Paul. However, the Corinthians certainly were guilty and they were during Paul's time.

Ya Paul had a time with Corinth. They made secular history.

Commandments....There is no way to imagine it, but I think it would do some Christians some good to have to live under the 613 Mosaic Laws. Ya know, that is if they could avoid being stoned. They would learn a lot of things, the one thing they would learn is that they do not want to be under them. And two, they would understand the burden Christ lifted for us.

 

[Grailhunter]

Love the routine! I remember it! Didn't he also say that perhaps the film crew who were documenting it could've cut someone a break and given them a sandwich?

Exactly!
These documentaries sometimes forget what they are doing or if people are actually thinking. LOL
Had one on TV about the American Cancer Society talking about donating for research to treat lung cancer. The lady said, If you think you are safe because you do not smoke, you should know that 85% of lung cancer patients never smoked a day in their life. I liked da choked on my sandwich! And I yelled back at the TV, Then you might want to figure out what causing lung cancer instead of spending millions on anti-smoking campaigns,

 

[Grailhunter]

Grace is not a license to sin (I still deplore that phrase); i

That is my phrase and it accurately describes this super grace stuff and OSAS. Describes it to a tee....once you put it in motion...sin all you want and rewarded with heaven. And after all that evil goes to heaven, it is not fit for God or good people.

While grace covers all sins of the flesh and all things are lawful, it doesn't erase the consequences and it is not expedient. I hate to say it, but grace will cover murder, but you are still going to jail and that will hinder your growth in faith.

This is the Christian version of the Old Testament talking..listen up....In the Old Testament...God did not promise them Heaven or threaten them with Hell. Nor did the Israelites know anything about a devil. And still today do not believe in a devil or a Hell. Having got that straight...Sacrifices did not not forgive sins. They prevented the wrath of God. For Christians sin send you Hell. Heaven for good people....Hell for bad people. God does not have any tolerance to sin or evil, so He is not going to abide with it. So you can be sure to know that if you are of poor character and live a life of sin, have them pack the barbecue sauce in the casket cause ya going to need it. Probably the biggest mistake that OSAS people make is thinking that the day you are saved is Judgment Day. That is a big mistake.

Most Christians are going to arrive on Judgment Day with little or no sins to their tally. Because they believed, they repented with the honest intent to stop sinning, adjust their life to the Bible. They were baptized by someone that thought it was more than a public display of obedience and they performed the bread and wine ritual. They did not acquire sinful lifestyles, LGBTQ, drug use or sexual perversions. Most people are not going to be involved with this stuff. But they are going to sin and when they do they will repent with the honest intentions to stop sinning...again. Sins forgiven and forgotten they arrive on Judgement Day.

One thing that I have brought up is pride, and I am not convinced it has been discussed properly. When you set out to be as sinless as possible and you claim to live a near sinless life (I speak in general, not accusing anyone in particular) you run the risk of being proud of your fleshly actions.

Find a scripture where obeying Christ causes any kind of issue. There is no down side to obedience.

 

[FHII]

That is my phrase and it accurately describes this super grace stuff and OSAS. Describes it to a tee....once you put in motions...sin all you want and reward heaven. And after all that evil goes to heaven, it is not fit for God or good people.

It is not your phrase even though you may claim it. And it does not accurately describe the teaching of John Calvin, nor of God. Though it may accurately describe the false teachings of many.

John Calvin was not a Calvinist. He was not OSAS.

Aside from that, I stand with what I say. I have said my peace, and stand on that.

 

[Grailhunter]

It is not your phrase even though you may claim it.

Well I think I started using it first, but I could be wrong. It is kind of like HVLI...I coined on one the submarines I was on. HVLI High Velocity Lead Injection.

And it does not accurately describe the teaching of John Calvin,

John Calvin was a nut. And his religion is blasphemous, depicting God as a monstrous puppet master.

Cool on the peace.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When I read through the New Testament, I was shocked at how much emphasis was placed on obedience. Basically, my whole theology was off.

I came to the same realization. It's amazing how many lengthy passages of scripture there are in the NT telling us what to do and not what to do. But instead of talking about those we find the couple of verses about this or that and major on those, lol.

 

[Tong2020]

I came to the same realization. It's amazing how many lengthy passages of scripture there are in the NT telling us what to do and not what to do. But instead of talking about those we find the couple of verses about this or that and major on those, lol.

Are commands, instructions, or to do list, sort of a law?

How about exhortations, encouragement, reminders, are they sort of a law?

Tong
R4252

 

[FHII]

Well I think I started using it first, but I could be wrong. It is kind of like HVLI...I coined on one the submarines I was on. HVLI High Velocity Lead Injection.

Well Calvin said it back in the 1600's... But if you think you started using it first, yeah sure... Ok.

John Calvin was a nut. And his religion is blasphemous, depicting God as a monstrous puppet master.

Oh, so you have read his works! What books of his have you read? He wrote many and I have read some of them. Lets compare notes! What books of his have you read?

[You are being set up. I know you haven't read any of his works. I have read his works. I know better. He was a monster, but not because of what he wrote. Your best response is to not respond, because you are wrong!]

 

[FHII]

[And you are going to go on a crash course of reading to try to quickly educate yourself on what he said, but its not going to work. I spent 3 years studying what he said and I know the difference between a true student and a wikipedia student!

The better option is to just... Ask me]