Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[BarneyFife]

Legalism is a term that only works if you are trying to live up to the Law of Moses.

I'm not familiar with that concept in Scripture. Could you expand a little? :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

BE GOOD AND DO GOOD has become my slogan on this forum.
I feel like the Johnny Appleseed of be good.
Why has it come to this on this forum?.
Probably one of the most worth while discussion we could have.
I CONTEND THAT IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO BE GOOD!
I CONTEND THAT IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO LIVE A NEARLY SINLESS LIFE!
NOW PROVE ME WRONG!

The truth will set you free! Be honest.

What Matthew 5:18-20 says to me is For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Is as long as we remain in claiming our good (dead) works before men as enough, denying that we have been made dead by the body of Christ, as long as the world still stands as Paul said (inspired by the Spirit of God) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:14-15

then till heaven and earth pass away…as in behold I make all things new, a new heaven and earth the old has passed away…one jot and one tittle shall not pass until all (Matthew 18:32-35)is fulfilled. To me meaning …good better be good enough to keep the whole Law of God for if in one point we fail we break all.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do (Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit(In Newness of Life.) and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

Johnny Appleseed of good. But what of Revelation 3:1-2 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. [2] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

dead works? Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Easy to be good you said but below admit it is impossible to be perfect.



good …Johnny Appleseed good. From my experience you are right it is easy to be good because it puts on a show before men and gains what we want which is admiration and boasting in ourselves of every good little deeds. But what of His saying you can be good all day long, you can play Johnny Appleseed but if you fail in one point you fail in all?

you said it is impossible to be perfect that they might be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
No? What are we saying then “what do you more than others?” It is Easy to do good. As you said “impossible to be perfect.”

Salutations Victory...
There is no show. There is no prize. We cannot be prefect. Good does not get you to heaven just what the followers of Christ do.
I hate to bring up logic but....the followers of a good and perfect God....would they attempt to obey, would they attempt to be good.

good …Johnny Appleseed good. From my experience you are right it is easy to be good because it puts on a show before men and gains what we want which is admiration and boasting in ourselves of every good little deeds. But what of His saying you can be good all day long, you can play Johnny Appleseed but if you fail in one point you fail in all?

The idea that to be a follower of Christ you have to be scum is way off....I will just say way off. The idea that Christianity is a religion of sin and sin some more is way off... The idea that Christ died on the cross to start a religion of sin and sin some is way off. The idea that the outward expression Christians is poor character and sin is way off.

Christ said we are the light of the world....the salt of the earth....walk in his example. Walking in his example is not anti-Christian. We are the examples to the world....an expression of Christ.

you said it is impossible to be perfect that they might be called the children of God. I did not say that, but what ever.

Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45]

[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47]

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48]

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

No? What are we saying then “what do you more than others?” It is Easy to do good. As you said “impossible to be perfect.

Are you saying these are the issues you have problems with or that they obstacles to being good?

 

[Abaxvahl]

BE GOOD AND DO GOOD has become my slogan on this forum.
I feel like the Johnny Appleseed of be good.
Why has it come to this on this forum?.
Probably one of the most worth while discussion we could have.
I CONTEND THAT IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO BE GOOD!
I CONTEND THAT IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO LIVE A NEARLY SINLESS LIFE!
NOW PROVE ME WRONG!

The truth will set you free! Be honest.

The world, the flesh, and the devils get at us. The depth of sin and death already in us is immense to where even the just man falls seven times a day. If you aren't living a sinless life you aren't living a "good" life, it is still bad. It seems you have lowered the bar in this post to call it good, but God's bar is "be perfect as the Heavenly Father," and we know "all fall short of the glory of God."

 

[Grailhunter]

What Matthew 5:18-20 says to me is For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Is as long as we remain in claiming our good (dead) works before men as enough, denying that we have been made dead by the body of Christ, as long as the world still stands as Paul said (inspired by the Spirit of God) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:14-15

then till heaven and earth pass away…as in behold I make all things new, a new heaven and earth the old has passed away…one jot and one tittle shall not pass until all (Matthew 18:32-35)is fulfilled. To me meaning …good better be good enough to keep the whole Law of God for if in one point we fail we break all.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do (Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit(In Newness of Life.) and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You are way off here.
Christ is our example....are we to set our own example....poor character and sinful lifestyles....so that people look at Christians and thing....their God must be the God of evil. Example....no pride....no boast.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

This is true....of the Mosaic Law....really has nothing to do with Christians or Christ's teachings. If you look at these scriptures, Christ a Jew, is talking to Jews, about Judaism.

Look at your effort here. What are you trying to push? What are trying to prove? Trying to make people believe it is impossible to be good, so no one should try? That trying to be good is bad. That trying to be good is saying you do not have faith.

You need to look at what is pushing you. Why do you say these things?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The idea that to be a follower of Christ you have to be scum is way off....I will just say way off. The idea that Christianity is a religion of sin and sin some more is way off... The idea that Christ died on the cross to start a religion of sin and sin some is way off. The idea that the outward expression Christians is poor character and sin is way off.

Christ said we are the light of the world....the salt of the earth....walk in his example. Walking in his example is not anti-Christian. We are the examples to the world....an expression of Christ.

Agree. That is not what I’m trying to say. it makes me just as confused this message of keep doing what you are doing with a long face of “woe me I’m just a filthy rotten sinner saved by Grace”

in He said you are the Light of the world and to walk in the Light. To me means: exposed. Confessing the darkest most hideous things of our heart and bringing them out unto the Light of God to be reproved. I don’t mean in some confession booth where there is no loss…but losing this appearance of high and mighty and walking in the truth of what we have done unto God and unto others.

Are you saying these are the issues you have problems with or that they obstacles to being good?

issues I have for sure. Just trying to learn and grow in a relationship with God as others. But I have questions. Confusions.

 

[Grailhunter]

The world, the flesh, and the devils get at us. The depth of sin and death already in us is immense to where even the just man falls seven times a day. If you aren't living a sinless life you aren't living a "good" life, it is still bad. It seems you have lowered the bar in this post to call it good, but God's bar is "be perfect as the Heavenly Father," and we know "all fall short of the glory of God."

The Bible does say that. And if you think you can be perfect I support your effort in that regard but as you quoted, all fall short of the glory of God. The religious literary style of the New Testament is hard to master. Every person will talk to both ends of the extreme.

 

[Grailhunter]

Agree. That is not what I’m trying to say. it makes me just as confused this message of keep doing what you are doing with a long face of “woe me I’m just a filthy rotten sinner saved by Grace”

in He said you are the Light of the world and to walk in the Light. To me means: exposed. Confessing the darkest most hideous things of our heart and bringing them out unto the Light of God to be reproved. I don’t mean in some confession booth where there is no loss…but losing this appearance of high and mighty and walking in the truth of what we have done unto God and unto others.

I am not suggesting high and mighty....be good and do good, the best you can.
No we are the light of the world....you see this is all a new religious belief. If the early Christians took the attitude that there was something wrong with being good or trying to be good...history would have recorded us as an evil religion...parallel with Satanism.

issues I have for sure. Just trying to learn and grow in a relationship with God as others. But I have questions. Confusions.

No confusion? Welcome to the proud crowd. 30,000 Protestant denominations....the definition of confused.
But this is why I started this thread, to reduce that confusion.

 

[Abaxvahl]

The Bible does say that. And if you think you can be perfect I support your effort in that regard but as you quoted, all fall short of the glory of God. The religious literary style of the New Testament is hard to master. Every person will talk to both ends of the extreme.

All who are saved will be divinized (2 Peter 2:4), so we will be perfected. There have been a few who nearly got there in this life or who did receive it, so it is not impossible. All fall short or have fallen short, but in Christ all things are possible should God allow it.

 

[Grailhunter]

All who are saved will be divinized (2 Peter 2:4), so we will be perfected.

I am assuming that you know that being perfect and being perfected are two different things.

 

[Abaxvahl]

I am assuming that you know that being perfect and being perfected are two different things.

Yes, and by the latter we will become the former, I am saying it is possible to be perfect by God's divinizing grace.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, and by the latter we will become the former, I am saying it is possible to be perfect by God's divinizing grace.

Then I assume you will not be sinning a lot.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Then I assume you will not be sinning a lot.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean it is actual in any one individual. This is why we have the Psalms, the Church, and many other sources of grace, for it is still difficult to accept. Some Saint said if a person could entirely and without wavering follow God's will for a single day they would become perfect, it is that difficult for humanity still for the reasons I said above. May the Lord have mercy on us.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are way off here.
Christ is our example....are we to set our own example....poor character and sinful lifestyles....so that people look at Christians and thing....their God must be the God of evil. Example....no pride....no boast.

no. That is not what I was saying. As I said I’m struggling…later you commented on confused. Yes confused; I’m struggling with what to think at the moment. But I’m not saying to keep practicing what we are practicing that leads to death and justifying it with an oh well I’m just a sinner. For instance is Romans 7:14-15 an excuse to continue to practice whatever we want?

For what I am doing I do not understand. For I am not practicing what I [would] like to [do] but I am doing the very thing I hate. but if I do the very thing I do not want [to do], I agree (consent) with the Law, [confessing] that the Law is good.

Then here: “For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish [to will] and may be found by you to be not what you wish [to will]; that perhaps [there will be] strife, Jealousy, angry tempers, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances; I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.”

John 3:20 For every one that doeth [practices] evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Romans 2:2-3 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which practice such things. [3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which practice such things, and doest practice the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which practice such things are worthy of death, not only practice the same, but have pleasure in them that practice them.

To practice: perform, the active process In Performing (accomplishing) what is done, a deed, and implying as a regular practice, a routine or habit; habitually. —so no I’m not suggesting to practice that which is evil and call it good. Paul spoke of his former conversation and clearly spoke of a different conversation in Christ. In my opinion Paul wasn’t promoting habitual sin.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not suggesting high and mighty....be good and do good, the best you can.
No we are the light of the world....you see this is all a new religious belief. If the early Christians took the attitude that there was something wrong with being good or trying to be good...history would have recorded us as an evil religion...parallel with Satanism.

Matthew 10:25-26 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? [26] Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are way off here.
Christ is our example....are we to set our own example....poor character and sinful lifestyles....so that people look at Christians and thing....their God must be the God of evil. Example....no pride....no boast.

you were responding to “What Matthew 5:18-20 says to me is For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Is as long as we remain in claiming our good (dead) works before men as enough, denying that we have been made dead by the body of Christ, as long as the world still stands as Paul said (inspired by the Spirit of God) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. [15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:14-15

then till heaven and earth pass away…as in behold I make all things new, a new heaven and earth the old has passed away…one jot and one tittle shall not pass until all (Matthew 18:32-35)is fulfilled. To me meaning …good better be good enough to keep the whole Law of God for if in one point we fail we break all.”

Consider “as long as the world stands” with “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.”

1 Corinthians 8:11-13 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. [13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

^who in the above does the world still stand? in the above has heaven and earth passed away and all things have become new? While Paul said But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” What is a new creature? In For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

 

[Grailhunter]

no. That is not what I was saying. As I said I’m struggling…later you commented on confused. Yes confused; I’m struggling with what to think at the moment. But I’m not saying to keep practicing what we are practicing that leads to death and justifying it with an oh well I’m just a sinner. For instance is Romans 7:14-15 an excuse to continue to practice whatever we want?

No, nothing can be an excuse.
You can take the scriptures and then you can consider the spirit of Christ, the spirit of scriptures, the spirit of Christianity.
Then also the them of the storyline.
There is no part of this that is going to promote sin or sinful lifestyles.
Corinth had its issues with sin and Paul had to deal with that.

To practice: perform, the active process In Performing (accomplishing) what is done, a deed, and implying as a regular practice, a routine or habit; habitually. —so no I’m not suggesting to practice that which is evil and call it good. Paul spoke of his former conversation and clearly spoke of a different conversation in Christ. In my opinion Paul wasn’t promoting habitual sin.

That is good because he was not.

 

[Grailhunter]

1 Corinthians 8:11-13 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? [12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. [13] Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

1st Corinthians 8:11-13 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world

But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Is there a question about this?

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Is there a question on this?

 

[Grailhunter]

Matthew 10:25-26 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? [26] Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
?

It is enough for the disciple that he may become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they insult the members of his household!

Ya there are scriptures that make you scratch your head....You know there is a issue when neither notes in study bibles or commentaries do not have good explanations.

There are a few of these.

But still back to question...what are you struggling with. Is there a sin that you are struggling with.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Is there a question about this?

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Is there a question on this?

How did “as long as the world stands” get in there. In Some versions it is not there. In Some other versions it says “to the age”?