Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[BarneyFife]

I get told that I use the pages of the Bible for toilet paper....

That is just horrific. I am sorry you've had to endure that.

 

[BarneyFife]

It's way past my bedtime. :)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh that funny!
No he does not use the term license to sin.
Read his posts and ask him questions....no morals.

And you guys get on ME for “ personal attacks” .....I freely admit my guilt....it’s something I am always working on, Believe it or not! I am a natural- Born Smart A** , and this stuff comes to me so easily, it is easy for me to give into temptation....pray for me and my flaws....I will pray for yours...

 

[Taken]

Jesus did not preach a new set of Rules

Correct.
Jesus taught; THROUGH HIM, Laws were Fulfilled.

so that a person could merit Heaven——

Disagree.
Jesus taught; "IF" a person goes "THROUGH HIM" (Heartfully believing, and Confessing, IN HIS WAY, HIS TRUTH, HIS LIFE); "THEN" that person would absolutely "merit" a place in HIS KINGDOM, (by and through His conversion).

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (THEN) thou shalt be saved.
[10] For (Because) with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Matt 18:
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye beconverted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus preached HIMSELF—— * I* am the Way......*I* am the Truth.....*I* am the Life “...... get Saved by RESTING in * HIS* Gospel. Find it in 1Cor15:1-4.....

Correct.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I'll take grace over faith (you know, your hidden half of "Nothing But The Blood" ) any day. All is of grace. ;)

“ it is by GRACE that you are Saved”

If not for the Love, the Grace and the Sheer Mercy Of God, there would never be any reason for God to Save ANYBODY! He doesn't need us and we can add Nothing to Him...It’s ALL of Grace.....ALL of Mercy for hopeless and helpless Lost,Wretched Sinners.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The conditions of eternal life are the same as they have always been: Perfect obedience to the commandments of God. If it were not so, we would need no Saviour.

Jesus means what He says--not what we want Him to mean. The fact that we all have sin is no excuse for sin. Since we all sin before we even know what it is, no amount of commandment-keeping can merit one iota toward salvation. Holiness is, however, the default lifestyle in God's creation. Earth is an anomaly, an outlier. Sin seems natural to us because it is pervasive here. The eradication of sin and persistent sinners is what the plan of redemption and Christ and the Gospel is all about. I say is instead of are because Christ IS verily the Gospel. We're honestly not as far apart as you think. I appreciate your zeal for justification by faith. It is the spearhead of the Gospel. But sanctification and glorification cannot be left unconsidered.

I am not sure if I understand you....please tell me....how does a man get to Heaven?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

BB, you're a slave to hyperbole. What's Christianity 101? I don't find that anywhere in the Bible. Christ says we must live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Here is Christianity in a nutshell, “Christianity 101” —— you are dirty.....only Jesus can clean you up and make you fit for Heaven.... He does that “for” you if you Believe that He died for you Sins and rose from the Grave....Believe that “ Gospel” and God will put His Spirit in you and Transform you into the Image Of His Son....making you a New Creation with a New Heart That has new desires......Chief among them is wanting to live a life that pleases God..... People will just about always do what they want—— God Changes “your “ Wants so that they line up with His...it can take a while.....Your task is to continue in the way that you started—- Faith in the Promises Of God.....You do the Faith Part ( Keep Trusting In Jesus)

and God will do HIS Part.....He will “ Save you to the Uttermost”.......

Any Questions?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Christ says we must live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

The “ mouth of God” says that if you have a lustful thought, you are to gouge out your eye .....the “ mouth of God” says that if you want to be righteous, sell all of your possessions and give them to the poor......need more? The “ mouth of God” says you must love Him with ALL of your heart.....ALL of your Mind.....and ALL of your souls and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.....nobody does EITHER! You had best find you a “ loophole “ fir this dilemma .....I got one.....it’s called Resting in the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4.... do that and God will give you the Forgiveness and Grace that you need and “ reckon you” just as Perfect as His Son is.....that’s the only way to get to Heaven....it’s “ The Narrow Way” that you may have heard about....

 

[BarneyFife]

And you guys get on ME for “ personal attacks” .....I freely admit my guilt....it’s something I am always working on, Believe it or not! I am a natural- Born Smart A** , and this stuff comes to me so easily, it is easy for me to give into temptation....pray for me and my flaws....I will pray for yours...

You can count on me, Brother. :)

 

[Taken]

A “ weak” Believer thinks that it wrong to drink a glass of wine.....{B] the Legalist says that you [/B] will go to Hell for drinking one glass of wine....but then if you “ repent” of that sin before you die, you are “ good enough” again to get to Heaven.....

Meanings:
* Legalist - One who practices or inculcates strict adherence to law;
* Practices - Applies to himself.
* Inculcates - Teach persistently.

The POINT you are making ABOUT a legalist...
IS BEYOND it's meaning...
1) A Legalist, First has a Specific Law.
2) A Legalist, Practices that Specific Law APPLIES "to him".
3) A legalist, Teaches that Specific Law ALSO APPLIES "to the one HE IS preaching TO".

* THAT WHICH a "LEGALIST" IS "TEACHING" to a (student, listener)... IS HIS OPINION "THAT (IN HIS OPINION)...THE LAW THAT APPLIES TO HIM"...ALSO APPLIES TO HIS LISTENER".

I do not have a problem WITH "a legalist"...
WHO has Decided "WHICH LAW Applies TO HIM, and that same Law WHICH HE Practices".

I do not have a problem WITH "a legalist"...(WHOSE OPINION IS); a LAW which APPLIES to HIM, ALSO Applies to "HIS LISTENERS/STUDENTS".

The "specific LAW", may Very well, ALSO APPLY ... TO HIS Students/Listeners ....

The "FACT" IS; "WHILE ALL LAWS" written and published, HAVE LEGAL STANDING....
NOT ALL LAWS "APPLY" to ALL persons, simply because "A LAW" is written and published.

"Application" OF LAWS...IS DEPENDANT UPON "JURISDICTION".

EX: If you are a citizen of the US, and NOT traveling or doing business with Russia....Russian Laws DO NOT APPLY to you.

EX: If you are a citizen of Montana, and NOT traveling or doing business with Wyoming...
Wyoming Laws DO NOT APPLY to you.

EX: If you are CONVERTED "IN" CHRIST...
Your citizenship, IS IN HIS KINGDOM.

Eph 2:
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

* Any prudent "STUDENT" of Scripture, "SHOULD KNOW", that "BY WHAT THAT INDIVIDUAL STUDENT DOES...determines WHAT LAWS... DO and DO NOT Apply TO him.

* IF a person "IS" "IN" Christ, Laws that APPLY to a person "IN" Christ ... APPLIES.
LAWS the "APPLY" to a person "NOT IN CHRIST"... DOES NOT APPLY.

* Point being...A legalist, simply KNOWING a list of DIFFERENT LAWS....DOES NOT AUTHORIZE him...to DICTATE WHICH LAWS, DO and DO NOT APPLY to an other.

THAT ^ is a favorite tactic particularly of catholics on this forum. Dictating WHICH Laws APPLY to others. When the other disagrees....the catholic deflects with attempts to make the other doubtful...by saying and implying a derragatory inference..OF "cherry picking".

"Cherry picking"... while IMPLIED, as "underhanded"...IS NOT.
It IS "establishing" WHICH laws DO and DO not APPLY to the individual.

IF an Individual IS "IN" Christ...he is NOT BOTH... "IN" Christ...and "NOT IN" Christ.
Many Laws "IN" Scripture APPLY "ONLY" to those "IN" Chirst...and Many Laws, APPLY "ONLY" to those "NOT IN Christ".

WHO, can determine, WHICH LAWS IN Scripture APPLY to an "INDIVIDUAL", EXCEPT the "INDIVIDUAL" himself, who hisself has "AGREED TO Abide by" ?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I quoted the very verse you're quoting to me now, BB. I made it clear that Christ is the head of the following hierarchy. It's like you reply without reading. Paul made it plain that all Scripture is profitable for knowledge and instruction in righteousness. You'll never get me to concede that Paul preferred himself over other of God's penmen. Believe what you like.

It’s not a matter of “ preference” .....it’s God’s way to show that Paul was speaking for Jesus when he wrote his Letters...it was to show the world that anything Paul wrote had God’s blessing....Paul’s Words had all of the Authority that the Words Of Jesus had.....Paul was special......God chose Paul to receive and write about many things that God had held in Secret since the beginning of time....” Mysteries” Of God That were never revealed to ANYONE until Paul was in the scene....the Church Age.....The Body Of Christ....The institution of a New Plan where God would no longer operate by The Law as Israel had, but by Grace! These were things that Jesus never revealed to His apostles during His time on Earth...They were “ Mysteries” , kept secret by God until the time was right....Paul said that even the Gospel That he preached .....the Gospel Of Grace , had been “ held back for ages but now was going to be made known to the world! The temporary blinding of the Jews as Salvation by Faith in Christ Only was preached to GENTILES——- a Secret previously unthinkable! Also the secret the Rapture...something Never revealed by Jesus to the apostles....the list of these Secrets is a long one....and a very controversial one to the average Jew in the time of Paul.....Paul was not “ better “ than anyone else.....he has just been better “informed” than the other Disciples.....God needed to show Paul’s Authority in the new things he revealed.....he was God's Man and Gods Mouthpiece for God’s “ new and better Covenant” after the Ascension Of Jesus just like Abraham and Moses had been God’s Mouthpiece for the “ Old” Covenant......you dismiss the value of Pauls ministry to your own detriment....

 

[Taken]

Addy said: ↑
This topic is toxic... and it is dangerous... for those who dare believe that they
must do good and be good to 'remain' saved.

Agree....Absolutely CAN BE...toxic and dangerous.

IMO...it hangs Heavily on "Glossing OVER", a VERY IMPORTANT Scriptural Lesson.

Earthly men, BY NATURE, live among, mingle with OTHER Earthly men. They have ALL KINDS of "relationships" with other Earthly men...family, neighbors, friends, employers, spouses, lovers, divorces, blah, blah...

THAT ^ is one thing.

Earthly men, ARE OFFERED, an opportunity, an option, TO ALSO HAVE A "relationship" WITH the Lord God Almighty.

THAT ^ is a completely DIFFERENT thing.

Earthly men, ACCEPTING THAT Offer, has not ONE IOTA to do with what Any other Earthly man Believes, Chooses, Adheres to.

THE DANGER/Toxicity....IS Pretending...
An established "IN CHRIST" Relationship Between ONE man and the Lord God IS:
AFFECTED...IN DANGER... UNWORTHY... CORRUPTED...UNDONE...
"BY" corrupted, severed, unsavory relationships, BETWEEN man and man.

Men put men in the mix...dictating, GOD WILL SEVER HIS RELATIONSHIP with an Individual man...."IF" that individual man...
DOES NOT, have a GOOD relationship WITH ALL other men. <--- hogwash.

God Himself, SUPREME POWER...DOES NOT HAVE A "GOOD" relationship with "ALL" earthly men!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Addy]

Been reading and getting an update here...

I love BB.... He is my brother in Christ... I sometimes do not like his method of getting his point across... and I think he will be the first to admit that he sometimes gets carried away... .HE is passionate about his cause...

His heart and his goal is to get the message of GRACE to the newbies so that they do not fall into the trap of legalism.

It gets frustrating arguing/debating with those who would dare steal the hope and joy of the ones who are in need of Christ the most... not to mention the constant twisting of words that few thrive in presenting on a constant basis.

To the New believer... Bad news is ... you are NO better than that drunk down the street...
Good news is... you don't have to compare yourself to him/her... this is not your measure of goodness.
Compare yourself to Christ... and you will quickly see that you will be in need of HIM to even breathe....Remain humble and totally dependent on your Saviour....Speak to Him... Meditate on His Word... THANK HIM in ALL THINGS... Worship Him... and you will develop the proper "heart condition"... HE wants your love and devotion.... The more you get close to JESUS... the more you will KNOW HIM... and the sin will fall right off of you because you will only desire to PLEASE HIM.

 

[Grailhunter]

And you guys get on ME for “ personal attacks” .....I freely admit my guilt....it’s something I am always working on, Believe it or not! I am a natural- Born Smart A** , and this stuff comes to me so easily, it is easy for me to give into temptation....pray for me and my flaws....I will pray for yours...

Again....
So are you saying that someone that believes in Christ can commit all manner of sin...lifelong...lifestyle can go to heaven?
Homosexuals
drug users
abortionists
murderers
child molesters
rapists
etc

Are we going to spend eternity with these people in heaven?

 

[Grailhunter]

“Heresy” is saying, as you did, that Non- Christians will be Saved.....Christ is “ The Narrow Path”..... Without the Holy Spirit that allows you to say “ Jesus is Lord”—— you are NONE of His....Anybody who tries to get to Heaven Without Faith in Christ is “ a thief and a liar”...... of course , their is more.....

Your most Damnable Heresy—- coming From Hell Itself— is that we make it to Heaven by “being good”.....If That were the case,” Christ Died in vain”......

I got some more of your Unbiblical Doctrine That needs to be addressed for the sake of the Newbies out there that have not been mislead yet.....Your Confused “ beliefs” are a serious hazard to those that want to learn the true ways of God.....stay tuned.....

There in nothing here that speaks to the topic I or anyone is discussing with you.
Anybody mentions obedience and you try to twist the topic.
No one is saying obedience saves you...
And I have never said that being good is salvation
But being bad can get you to hell.
Christianity is not a license to sin and be rewarded with heaven....that what I say.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your way of keeping a score card is to make sure their are no unrepentant Sins on your ledger the day that you die—— especially any “ willful sins” , which, if Truth be told , make up 99% of your sins—- of course, all of “ YOUR” sins are purely “ Accidental” aren’t they?

Again twisting the topic...no one here is talking about accidental sins.

Amazing how people can rationalize and justify things to fit a screwed- up interpretation of certain Bible verses

So tell us how you interpret these scriptures.
James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."

Luke 6:46“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

John 14:23 "Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

Romans 6:16 "Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

Luke 11:28 "But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

1st Peter 1:14 "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,"

2nd Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,"

Romans 1:5 "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,"

Acts 5:29 "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."

1st John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

Matthew 7:14-20 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Particularly relevant to the OSAS heresy."

2nd Corinthians 2:9 "For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything."

John 15:10 "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love."

John 15:14 "You are my friends if you do what I command you."

Romans 12:2 "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Another scripture particularly relevant to the new age OSAS heresy.

Ephesians 6:6 "Not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,"

1st John 2:3-6 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

1st John 3:22 "And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him."

1st John 3:24 "Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."

1st John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing."

2nd Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Philippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,"

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Luke 6:46 "“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?"

Matthew 7:20-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Grailhunter]

If you really Believed the Gospel and Rested In it as commanded to , these problems would melt away....you know that first part of the Gospel where it say “ Jesus died for your Sins? There is the Root of your Problem.....you simply don’t “Believe” that, much less, “ REST” in it.....it’s a command of God and you pay the price for your lack of Rest everyday and you don’t even realize it.....I pray that God open your eyes —— your inexcusable misunderstanding of Hebrews 10 has forced you to warp the rest of the Bible to have your error make sense....it is a sad thing to see.....

Again twisting the topic.
There is no one here that does not believe in salvation through Christ.
But Christ did not die on the cross to start a religion of sin and immorality with a reward of heaven!
Christ and the Apostles preached a Gospel that include morality.

Like Christ said...Why do you call me Lord Lord and do not do what I say.

 

[Grailhunter]

“Heresy” is saying, as you did, that Non- Christians will be Saved...

I or no one has said this....again arguing a false point.

Anybody who tries to get to Heaven Without Faith in Christ is “ a thief and a liar”...... of course , their is more.....

No one is trying to get to heaven without faith...again arguing a false point that no one said.

Your most Damnable Heresy—- coming From Hell Itself— is that we make it to Heaven by “being good”...

No one has ever said that. Your argument is that morals do not matter, no matter what evil a person does they go to heaven.
Being good and doing good is not what gets you to heaven, but it is what Christ has told us to do.
Being good does not get you to heaven....have I said this to you, over that last 10,000 post and keep twisting it.
Being good does not get you to heaven, but being bad can get you to hell....now that is what I keep telling you.
Heaven is not full of evil....now that is what I keep telling you.
Heaven is for good people and hell is for evil....an elementary understanding.

 

[Grailhunter]

This side of the Cross, Jesus left us with just Two Commandments.....#1 Believe. #2 Love.

No there is a lot more to the Bible than two Commandments. And there are a lot scriptures that will tell us the things we should not do.
Those have all been quoted to you but it does not matter.
But here is a short refresher course for you....
2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[Grailhunter]

This “ be good and do good” kick that you are on

I know it drives you nutz to think that Christianity is not a religion of evil.
I know it drives you nutz to think that God does not reward evil.
You do not like good? You do not like me saying be good and do good.
So what are you going to say since you do not like good....be evil and do evil.....good does not matter? What?