WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Not if Billy will not live long enough to reflect that, like the thief on the cross. :)

Well . . . yes. I should also say at this point that God is actually judging the heart of a person, so while the thief on the cross didn't have opportunity to give full expression of his belief, he would have, given an opportunity. The same could be said of the Patriarchs. They never knew Jesus but presumably, when they finally meet him, they will believe in him just as we do. Why? Because they are the kind of people who would.

Well yes we could say that the Patriarchs never knew Jesus the same way the apostles did, nor as we do. But I believe they knew about the Messiah and believed in the Messiah. But this is what is sure, Christ knew them even before they knew Him, as also Christ knew us even before we have come to know Him.

Tong
R3000

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus forgives sins. Remember the woman caught in adultery? He did not condemn her did He? Scriptures did not even say if the woman asked to be forgiven.

This is a period that as far as salvation goes, you can say it is a transitional period. Professors are going to say a lot about this.
It is actually a pretty deep topic. It appears neither the woman caught in adultery or the prostitute washing his feet asked for forgiveness. John is perform baptism for the remission of sins that is not ever explained. Christ is forgiving sins and that infuriates the Jews. Christ is not using the word salvation much, partly because salvation as a whole cannot be completed until after the cross.
And if He is talking to people, He is mostly talking to the Jews about Judaism.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Hi!

If you know and the RCC, did the early church pray to the virgin Mary? Did the apostles preached preached and taught what RCC preach and teach concerning the virgin Mary?

Tong
R2987

Mary was present at the Crucifixion .....why didn't the Repentant Thief Turn to Mary and ask her to “ intercede?”.... I mean, she was RIGHT THERE!

 

[theefaith]

<<<how do you become a member?>>>

It is God who adds to the church. He have Jesus Christ preached to them and works in them, bringing them to repentance unto faith in Him and in Jesus Christ and baptizes them with the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R2999

And the sacraments?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

how do you become a member?

Ask.

 

[theefaith]

Ask.

I did so pray tell?

 

[amigo de christo]

Mary was present at the Crucifixion .....why didn't the Repentant Thief Turn to Mary and ask her to “ intercede?”.... I mean, she was RIGHT THERE!

Exactly . Let no man follow the RCC . Let us do all by the grace of GOD to pull anyone we see in that system , OUTTA that system .
For we should desire life and good for the people .

 

[amigo de christo]

Mary was present at the Crucifixion .....why didn't the Repentant Thief Turn to Mary and ask her to “ intercede?”.... I mean, she was RIGHT THERE!

Why when paul was writing to the hebrews or any other church , did HE , nor james , nor peter , nor jude
Ever once encourage folks to pray to the saints or mary . Truth is paul actually wrote and said
let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary woshipping of angels . Folks we dont pray to mary , or the saints
or anyone other than GOD in the glorious name of Christ . Should be real simple . But the RCC is dangerous BB .
Never bow to the pope my friend .

 

[Taodeching]

Hi!

If you know and the RCC, did the early church pray to the virgin Mary? Did the apostles preached preached and taught what RCC preach and teach concerning the virgin Mary?

Tong
R2987

This has nothing to do with the OP, I suggest if your are genuinely curious as to the truth of the Early Church you consult the Fathers both east and west. As far as your idea of "praying to" that is a modern evangelical falsehood by twisting meanings of word like the word "pray". Pray itself just means to ask nothing more, yet modern evangelicals put a meaning on things never intended. By merely asking me you are praying, "pray tell ....." etc. Not trying to be mean here just in my short time here I seen more OP's abandoned because people didn't stay on topic

 

[Philip James]

Anybody that adheres to Catholic Doctrine has “ Fallen From Grace” because they ADD to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace ( 1Cor15:1-4) with their “ Seven Sacraments”.....

Hello BB,

Hmm.. With the Church in Rome, and the Church in Alexandria (and the Church in Constantinople),
I have 2 (or 3) 2000 year old apostolic witnesses who testify that the Sacraments we recieved from Christ through the apostles, and that they are integral to the way of salvation and the life of the Church.

Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that says otherwise?

Christ promised to found a Church that would not be overcome and that He would be with till the end of time...

Seems you have a conundrum there my friend..

'lean not on your own understanding'

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Jesus forgives sins. Remember the woman caught in adultery? He did not condemn her did He? Scriptures did not even say if the woman asked to be forgiven.

This is a period that as far as salvation goes, you can say it is a transitional period. Professors are going to say a lot about this.
It is actually a pretty deep topic. It appears neither the woman caught in adultery or the prostitute washing his feet asked for forgiveness. John is perform baptism for the remission of sins that is not ever explained. Christ is forgiving sins and that infuriates the Jews. Christ is not using the word salvation much, partly because salvation as a whole cannot be completed until after the cross.
And if He is talking to people, He is mostly talking to the Jews about Judaism.

The fact is Jesus forgave sins as He willed, even when He was not asked to do so. Why He did that is not only because He is full of love and grace and have authority to do so, but with good reason. He was teaching the Jews what those who shepherds them and were supposed to teach them, did not.

Tong
R3003

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<how do you become a member?>>>

It is God who adds to the church. He have Jesus Christ preached to them and works in them, bringing them to repentance unto faith in Him and in Jesus Christ and baptizes them with the Holy Spirit.

And the sacraments?

What sacraments? Perhaps in the church you became a member of?

Well, I am referring to the church, the body of Christ, spoken in scriptures.

Tong
R3004

 

[Tong2020]

Exactly . Let no man follow the RCC . Let us do all by the grace of GOD to pull anyone we see in that system , OUTTA that system .
For we should desire life and good for the people .

Well, every Christian knows that they ought not to follow men, but God.

<<<Let us do all by the grace of GOD to pull anyone we see in that system , OUTTA that system .>>>

It is more than what we can do to preach the truth to them. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts, convinces, and converts.

Tong
R3005

 

[Tong2020]

Why when paul was writing to the hebrews or any other church , did HE , nor james , nor peter , nor jude
Ever once encourage folks to pray to the saints or mary . Truth is paul actually wrote and said
let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary woshipping of angels . Folks we dont pray to mary , or the saints
or anyone other than GOD in the glorious name of Christ . Should be real simple . But the RCC is dangerous BB .
Never bow to the pope my friend .

That is why we should show them the fruits of the Spirit in us. Let us show them love and kindness. For in doing so, we get closer to their hearts and they to ours. It is then that we share to them the knowledge of the truth that could set them free.

Tong
R3006

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Hi!

If you know and the RCC, did the early church pray to the virgin Mary? Did the apostles preached preached and taught what RCC preach and teach concerning the virgin Mary?

This has nothing to do with the OP, I suggest if your are genuinely curious as to the truth of the Early Church you consult the Fathers both ease and west. As far as your idea of "praying to" that is a modern evangelical falsehood by twisting meanings of word like the word "pray". Pray itself just means to ask nothing more, yet modern evangelicals put a meaning on things never intended. By merely asking me you are praying, "pray tell ....." etc. Not trying to be mean here just in my short time here I seen more OP's abandoned because people didn't stay on topic

I know. I just could not resist asking it.

No problem. You have reason not to answer my question. Anyone who ask the same question could just read the scriptures and see for themselves if the apostles preach and taught what the RCC preached about Mary, if they prayed the rosary, and all.

It is important to me what others preach. For Paul warned of those who preach another gospel, a gospel which they, the apostles, did not preach. So, I put every teaching to the test by comparing what they preach with what the apostles preached.

Tong
R3007

 

[Tong2020]

Hello BB,

Hmm.. With the Church in Rome, and the Church in Alexandria (and the Church in Constantinople),
I have 2 (or 3) 2000 year old apostolic witnesses who testify that the Sacraments we recieved from Christ through the apostles, and that they are integral to the way of salvation and the life of the Church.

Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that says otherwise?

Christ promised to found a Church that would not be overcome and that He would be with till the end of time...

Seems you have a conundrum there my friend..

'lean not on your own understanding'

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

What is written in scriptures is where I go to to see if what is being preached is not a different gospel to that which the apostles preached. If what is preached is another gospel, their history becomes insignificant.

I follow what God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit teaches, not what doctrines man come up with and teaches.

Tong
R3008

 

[Grailhunter]

The fact is Jesus forgave sins as He willed, even when He was not asked to do so.

Any thing you would like to reference in the Gospels?

Why He did that is not only because He is full of love and grace and have authority to do so, but with good reason. He was teaching the Jews what those who shepherds them and were supposed to teach them, did not.

Yes and no....Christ was moving forward with much more superior morals that were not represented in the Mosaic Law. In a couple situations He explained that the Mosaic Law was flat out wrong.

 

[Philip James]

What is written in scriptures is where I go to to see if what is being preached is not a different gospel to that which the apostles preached. If what is preached is another gospel, their history becomes insignificant.

I follow what God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit teaches, not what doctrines man come up with and teaches.

Tong
R3008

Hello Tong,

Does the Truth change?

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The fact is Jesus forgave sins as He willed, even when He was not asked to do so.

Any thing you would like to reference in the Gospels?

The paralytic. (Mt.9)
The woman caught in adultery. (John 8)

Tong2020 said: ↑
Why He did that is not only because He is full of love and grace and have authority to do so, but with good reason. He was teaching the Jews what those who shepherds them and were supposed to teach them, did not.

Yes and no....Christ was moving forward with much more superior morals that were not represented in the Mosaic Law. In a couple situations He explained that the Mosaic Law was flat out wrong.

The law that God gave the children of Israel through Moses was holy, just, and good.

<<<In a couple situations He explained that the Mosaic Law was flat out wrong.>>>

Please cite those two situations.

Tong
R3015

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What is written in scriptures is where I go to to see if what is being preached is not a different gospel to that which the apostles preached. If what is preached is another gospel, their history becomes insignificant.

I follow what God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit teaches, not what doctrines man come up with and teaches.

Hello Tong,

Does the Truth change?

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

What truth are you referring to?

If you are referring to the truth of the things of the Spirit of God, no, they don’t change. And those are found written in scriptures. God’s word is truth and does not change.

However, truth written in scriptures can be perverted by wicked and faithless men.

Why do you ask?

Tong
R3016