False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[ewq1938]

The beast-king will occupy Jerusalem for those 42 months and during that time persecutes the Jewish population there.

You are changing the subject. There is no attack on Jerusalem in Rev 19 and I explained why there would not be a reason to attack the city anyways. You don't attack your own city.

 

[ewq1938]

You want to leave that 144,000 on that mountain top, but the Word says that they are first fruits..............................

which were redeemed from the earth. Simple

Still,. heaven has no dirt and rocks so no mountains and you are avoiding the fact that the 144k learn the song, not sing it.

 

[Douggg]

You are changing the subject. There is no attack on Jerusalem in Rev 19 and I explained why there would not be a reason to attack the city anyways. You don't attack your own city.

Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 and Psalms 2 go together.

The kings of the earth's armies are not attacking the beast-king who will be occupying the city, nor the false prophet, nor come to destroy the statue image of the beast-king. Their vain attempt to battle will be against Jesus.

Zechariah 14, Jesus will stand on the Mt of Olives splitting it half, creating a valley which the Jewish hostages escape through to safety.


Psalms 2:
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

,

 

[PinSeeker]

When I see comments like this, I know you haven't taken the time to do any RE-search.

You have every right to think what you want to think.

You are taking other people's word for this nonsense.

Well, we kind of have to take other folks' word regarding 200 year old history. It was what it was, and is what it is.

Instead, you listen to those that did not believe the Word of God, that God would restore Israel as a nation.

No... I mean, I hear what some of them say, but, you know, if they don't actually believe the Word of God, then I don't take much of what they say about it seriously.

However, Darby was correct...

About some things, sure. But his general systematic understanding of Scripture and his eschatology were quite wrong. But he had great influence during that time and it has persisted, especially in the West, unfortunately.

and Israel was restored as a nation............as we have a MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY.

Well, no, it never was a physical nation, until 1948. The nation-building spoken of in the Bible is God's doing, not man's, and consists of people from every tongue, tribe, and people-group. This is God's Israel.

Those that think that the Church has replaced Israel were incorrect.

Agreed. But dispensationalists wrongly attribute this to covenant theology folks like me. Covenant theology is not "replacement" theology at all, but quite the opposite. The Gospel of Jesus is inclusive. All those in Christ are true Jews and therefore fellow citizens of the Israel of God... His household. What Paul says in Ephesians 2 is very, very instructive here.

They have led so many astray from the truth. The unbelievable part is that people are still falling for it despite the nation of Israel being reborn.

Ugh. As far as I know, Jacob, whom God renamed Israel, is... still dead. But God is still building His Israel.

Grace and peace to you, TL.

 

[Davy]

No he hasn't. His understanding of what Jesus says is at least somewhat different than yours. But his intentions are the same as yours.

Yeah, Light did MOCK Lord Jesus Christ by teaching AGAINST what Jesus Himself said in His Olivet discourse. There is no other way the deceived can keep claiming Jesus' coming is prior to the great tribulation without MOCKING the actual Words of Jesus Christ. And if you cannot see that, it may mean like Light, that you also have a problem with your thinking and who you listen to.

As I said, Davy, ~ and I quote exactly what I said ~ "I would just beseech us all to stop it." That includes us all, even me.

Who do YOU think you are? You have NO AUTHORITY over me, so YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR COMMANDS! I will continue to rebuke a false teaching, regardless of what you try... to command like your overseer here, when you ain't. I mean, talk about conceit, you really show a lot of it!

Sure, opinions are fine; I welcome discussion. But good-natured discussion. That's what this board is supposed to be all aboutBut what I am saying, Davy, is that you don't merely point things out to people; you go far, far beyond that, and you are not alone in doing so.

Repeating what Jesus Himself said directly from Bible Scripture in those Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 verses is NOT OPINION.

You falsely claiming it's just my opinion only reveals your lack of ability to read and comprehend The Word of God. All you are actually trying... to do is destroy my credibility in teaching God's Word. That's an old tactic, and is easy to see, especially when milk-preachers try to use it.

Hmmm, well, okay, I'll accept that, but maybe, Davy, just maybe, there's a better way to go about it, my friend.

Better WAY... than GOD's TRUTH?? You don't make sense!

Sounds to me you're not used to issuing Christ's rebuke to those who 'purposefully' try to twist and teach AGAINST His Word. And how does one know for certain... one is teaching against The Word of God on purpose? Easy, by whether they keep it as written or not.

There are places in God's Word that we cannot know everything about until God either reveals it to us, or it comes to pass as written. Then we may speculate, but even then speculation still... must be according to Scripture, and not just wild idea that pops into one's head.

Then there's Scripture which reveals DIRECT TRUTH, and cannot be speculated against. We must either accept it as written, or reject it. So when someone simply REJECTS DIRECT SCRIPTURE, they do so ON PURPOSE. How are those going to know they are rejecting God and His Son in His Word when they do that? Only if either God lets them know, and via The Holy Spirit let's them know, or one of Christ's servants via The Holy Spirit lets them know.

And ain't difficult to know when someone is flat REJECTING a simple Scripture as written. So do your job, and quit trying... to play commander. We have ONLY ONE COMMANDER, and His Name is Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 and Psalms 2 go together.

The kings of the earth's armies are not attacking the beast-king who will be occupying the city, nor the false prophet, nor come to destroy the statue image of the beast-king. Their vain attempt to battle will be against Jesus.

You claimed Rev 19 was about Jesus destroying the armies surrounding Jerusalem, which is not the case. The armies destroyed are at Armageddon.

Revelation 19:21 Jesus destroys those armies which have surrounded and holding half of the city of Jerusalem as hostages.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yeah, Light did MOCK Lord Jesus Christ by teaching AGAINST what Jesus Himself said in His Olivet discourse. There is no other way the deceived can keep claiming Jesus' coming is prior to the great tribulation without MOCKING the actual Words of Jesus Christ. And if you cannot see that, it may mean like Light, that you also have a problem with your thinking and who you listen to.



Who do YOU think you are? You have NO AUTHORITY over me, so YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR COMMANDS! I will continue to rebuke a false teaching, regardless of what you try... to command like your overseer here, when you ain't. I mean, talk about conceit, you really show a lot of it!


Repeating what Jesus Himself said directly from Bible Scripture in those Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 verses is NOT OPINION.

You falsely claiming it's just my opinion only reveals your lack of ability to read and comprehend The Word of God. All you are actually trying... to do is destroy my credibility in teaching God's Word. That's an old tactic, and is easy to see, especially when milk-preachers try to use it.


Better WAY... than GOD's TRUTH?? You don't make sense!

Sounds to me you're not used to issuing Christ's rebuke to those who 'purposefully' try to twist and teach AGAINST His Word. And how does one know for certain... one is teaching against The Word of God on purpose? Easy, by whether they keep it as written or not.

There are places in God's Word that we cannot know everything about until God either reveals it to us, or it comes to pass as written. Then we may speculate, but even then speculation still... must be according to Scripture, and not just wild idea that pops into one's head.

Then there's Scripture which reveals DIRECT TRUTH, and cannot be speculated against. We must either accept it as written, or reject it. So when someone simply REJECTS DIRECT SCRIPTURE, they do so ON PURPOSE. How are those going to know they are rejecting God and His Son in His Word when they do that? Only if either God lets them know, and via The Holy Spirit let's them know, or one of Christ's servants via The Holy Spirit lets them know.

And ain't difficult to know when someone is flat REJECTING a simple Scripture as written. So do your job, and quit trying... to play commander. We have ONLY ONE COMMANDER, and His Name is Jesus Christ.

LOL!!!

Oh, wait... "do your job, and quit trying to play commander..." Is that a... a command??? LOL!

Good Lord.... Bless your heart, as they say...

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[Timtofly]

Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 and Psalms 2 go together.

The kings of the earth's armies are not attacking the beast-king who will be occupying the city, nor the false prophet, nor come to destroy the statue image of the beast-king. Their vain attempt to battle will be against Jesus.

Zechariah 14, Jesus will stand on the Mt of Olives splitting it half, creating a valley which the Jewish hostages escape through to safety.


Psalms 2:
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

,

Zechariah 14 is the opening of the 6th Seal that brings Jesus alone to the Mount of Olives, along with all the angels all over the earth to gather the sheep and goats to Jerusalem for judgment. This is the same event mentioned in Matthew 25:31.

The sheep and goats are gathered during the first 6 Trumpets. There are no "Jews" left on earth after the 6th Trumpet, to be persecuted by Satan and the FP. During the 7 Thunders is the final harvest of the wheat and tares per Matthew 13. Those left on the earth at the 7th Trumpet will be the gleanings of the rest of humanity after the final harvest. The goats and tares are not left on the earth for Satan's 42 months. They have already been tossed into the LOF.

During the Seals, the Trumpets, and the Thunders the earth's population of over 8 billion has been reduced to hundreds of thousands perhaps, not even in the millions. After Satan's 42 months there are even less than tens of thousands to gather at Armageddon. Many during those 42 months will be beheaded. Many will die of starvation and the harshness of the Abomination of Desolation, having the mark, but not enough resources to go around. That and people will just enjoy being able to kill other humans, even more so than they do now.

 

[The Light]

Still,. heaven has no dirt and rocks so no mountains and you are avoiding the fact that the 144k learn the song, not sing it.

LOL. That made me laugh.

I didn't avoid that fact as the fact is, the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth, not on the earth.

You are avoiding the fact that the Church is not appointed to wrath and yet you have them going through the wrath of God in what you believe.
You are also avoiding the fact that at the 7th trumpet, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That means that the Lord has returned and set up His kingdom. This is further supported by the fact that it is a time of judgement.

Maybe things would make more sense if you realized that the seals are actual events that take place before the wrath of God........just like the Word says.

As it stands you Revelation timeline does not work. Time to RE-think

 

[The Light]

Yeah, Light did MOCK Lord Jesus Christ by teaching AGAINST what Jesus Himself said in His Olivet discourse. There is no other way the deceived can keep claiming Jesus' coming is prior to the great tribulation without MOCKING the actual Words of Jesus Christ. And if you cannot see that, it may mean like Light, that you also have a problem with your thinking and who you listen to.

What a load. You offer a challenge and when I use the word to easily dispatch what you are saying, you can only stoop to personal attacks.

 

[PinSeeker]

What a load. You offer a challenge and when I use the word to easily dispatch what you are saying, you can only stoop to personal attacks.

Well, the bottom line is that you didn't "MOCK Lord Jesus Christ by teaching AGAINST what Jesus Himself said in His Olivet discourse." That's just a ridiculous assertion. You may have been mistaken concerning what Jesus said ~ and I'm not here making any comment about whether you were or were not ~ but that doesn't constitute mocking Him. You're right, that is a load. It's just ridiculous.

Grace and peace to you, TL.

 

[Douggg]

During the Seals, the Trumpets, and the Thunders the earth's population of over 8 billion has been reduced to hundreds of thousands perhaps, not even in the millions. After Satan's 42 months there are even less than tens of thousands to gather at Armageddon.

Tim, there will be millions gathered at Armageddon because when they are destroyed - the blood runs as deep as a horse's bridle, 1600 furlongs (200 miles), Revelation 14:20.

Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

 

[Douggg]

You claimed Rev 19 was about Jesus destroying the armies surrounding Jerusalem, which is not the case. The armies destroyed are at Armageddon.

ewq1938, Armageddon is the gathering location, not the battle location.

There will be armies of the kings of the earth destroyed at Armageddon, and all through Israel that day. Think about the size in order for the blood to flow as deep as a horse's bridle for 1600 furlongs, 200 miles.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19 and Psalms 2 go together.

The kings of the earth's armies are not attacking the beast-king who will be occupying the city, nor the false prophet, nor come to destroy the statue image of the beast-king. Their vain attempt to battle will be against Jesus.

False. There will not be a future physical battles between physical armies in the Middle East that premillennialists dream of.

Zechariah 14, Jesus will stand on the Mt of Olives splitting it half, creating a valley which the Jewish hostages escape through to safety.

No, the book of Zechariah 14 refers to the fall of the Old Testament congregation and the establishment of the New Testament congregation. The Mount of Olives symbolizes the kingdom of Old Testament which was crumbling, making way for the remnant to escape into the New Testament congregation. Here, they and all Gentiles believers could observe the Feast of Tabernacles IN CHRIST during the New Testament period through the Church.

Selah!

Here is a study on the Feast of Tabernacles if you want to know more exactly what it is.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, there will be millions gathered at Armageddon because when they are destroyed - the blood runs as deep as a horse's bridle, 1600 furlongs (200 miles), Revelation 14:20.

Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Revelation 14 is the other ending if the week of the days of the 7th Trumpet is not split in the midst. The 42 months of Satan's 8th kingdom is not guaranteed. It will only be determined at the 7th Trumpet.

That is God confirming the Atonement Covenant with the elect. The many are the beheaded during the 42 months. Only God knows if there will be any beheaded or not. If there are no beheaded left on earth, not already counted for, then the winepress of Revelation 14 happens after 7 days on Sunday the last and final day of the 7th Trumpet. The Day of the Lord will start without the AoD or Satan's 42 months.

If time is extended, and Satan gets 42 months, the Revelation 14 winepress will not happen, but Armageddon will be the winepress of God's wrath.

Statistically there will be way more people at the start of the 42 months than at the end. Obviously no one is going to want to raise any offspring. They have lived that out with millions of abortions over the last few decades. They want to get down to tens of thousands of people, obviously the abomination of desolation will do that for them.

If the winepress happens per Revelation 14, all will be dead in that river of blood. No one will be left to even live for the next 42 months. Either all die per Revelation 14, or all die 42 months later per Revelation 19.