Why did God...

[Zao is life]

No we are not.

No you are not. You are reducing his struggles in the flesh to no struggle at all...its actually you who are removing his victory.

Do me a favor Brakelite

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Luke 12:50

Look up the word straitened and explain what is meant?
Then answer why the Lord would use this word in relation to his daily, hourly by the minute and second struggle?
What is the time duration of this struggle?

It's quite possible you are yet to meet the Lord - I can show him to you if you so desire?


synonym leaning, propensity, proclivity, penchant mean a strong instinct or liking for something. leaning suggests a liking or attraction not strong enough to be decisive or uncontrollable 〈a student with artistic leanings〉. propensity implies a deeply ingrained and usually irresistible inclination 〈a propensity to offer advice〉. proclivity suggests a strong natural proneness usually to something objectionable or evil 〈a proclivity for violence〉. penchant implies a strongly marked taste in the person or an irresistible attraction in the object 〈a penchant for taking risks〉 Inc Merriam-Webster, Websters Dictionary (Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003).

If you believe Christ had our nature then you must also believe he felt the urges of his nature otherwise you must give Christ a hybrid nature and therefore he is nothing like those he came to save. Paul's teachings all would be in error on the true nature of Christ. Brakelite, I know you have had strong instinct, you have been attracted strongly to things in your life and we all have a natural proneness as Christ did however he "put to death" those feelings in himself. Keep in mind he had temptations you will never have! He had the Spirit without measure and imagine the temptations that caused in him?


Divine nature is promised to be received either at his coming or by resurrection of the dead.


No, only those who have divine nature cannot sin! James 1 is emphatic only human nature can act on its own lusts....divine nature is the nature of God Himself!

Yes, he is the Second Adam who the Father put to death along with all the propensities to sin.

True

Here is where you go wrong Brakelite. In nature Adam, in Mind like His Father but still had the carnal mind - "not my will but thine"
Jesus himself acknowledges the putting to death of that mind in the garden.

If you don't believe Christ had an opposing mind to his Father then you have lost the Christ and deny what he was raised up to achieve.


If Christ had not gone to the Cross would this have been evil in the sight of God?

Why do you think he was sweating droplets of blood? Straightened? Agony? Over what?...you will arrive at the truth Brakelite!
Why would he ask his Father if there was another way? What way was his considering?
The victory over the flesh and the carnal mind happened in the Garden - he was crucified there and once he submitted to his Fathers Will he went to the cross willingly accepting what would come.

In the end you have nowhere to go Brakelite - “The carnal mind is enmity against God.” Romans 8:7 - Christ had this mind in him - he had thoughts which opposed his Fathers Will but each time (every time) he cast them down - put them to death.

For you to say he never had them makes a mockery of his life and sacrifice and reduces the Master to a mere puppet on strings.

F2F

Not even Satan believed what others here assert. If he had believed that, he would have considered tempting Jesus a waste of time.

Christ had God's power and Spirit in Him. He also had Adam's nature, because He was also fully man. So He had to resist temptation the way we do, and He relied completely, 100% upon God His Father by faith in God.

 

[face2face]

It appears you are having a conversation with yourself. You imagine two sides one which you call 'Quiet' How do I know this? because you know what 'Quiet' is thinking and concluding ....and the other in the conversation freely dishes out advice to 'Quiet'

The conversation appears to have run its course with Quiet using all the avoidance tactics in his box of tricks. If you want to ever seriously engage with Hebrews 2 always hear to assist

 

[face2face]

Now that sounds excruciatingly familiar. He has developed an entire theology based on what he thinks others are thinking. And as you say, proceeds to offer counsel to the 'others' on the best way to free themselves of the errors of their ways. Probably the easiest world be to quit the conversation.

Comón Brakelite, I expect it from Quiet, but you? It's rare you ever lose ground and plumb these depths...get back on the horse!

 

[face2face]

Not sure about the last two sentences because I don't know what your answer is to the question, but the rest I agree with, of course.

Hi Zao,

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

Ask a Christian these questions:

How are your sins in 2024 represented in a man who died thousands of years ago on a tree?

Many cannot answer the question and some will attempt an answer while very few actually know the correct answer. The correct answer leads to an uncomfortable truth.

See how you go.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Until the wicked are taken away, they wont see righteously that charity edifies and knowledge puffs up, your discissions are not charity they are the other, take it or leave it.


1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Do you have uneven weights on your scales gordon?

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen."

Don't be quick to discount the importance of knowledge and its growth. As we are finding many fail to understand who the Lord Jesus Christ is and why he was raised up as the second Adam.

These are simple teachings which Paul details in all of Romans and his Epistles.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

The conversation appears to have run its course with Quiet using all the avoidance tactics in his box of tricks. If you want to ever seriously engage with Hebrews 2 always hear to assist

You call them avoidance tactics f2f when in fact they are challenges you refuse.
In my view, this assumed cleverness has short legs, particularly for the observant.

 

[face2face]

Not even Satan believed what others here assert. If he had believed that, he would have considered tempting Jesus a waste of time.

Christ had God's power and Spirit in Him. He also had Adam's nature, because He was also fully man. So He had to resist temptation the way we do, and He relied completely, 100% upon God His Father by faith in God.

The temptation of Christ offers 3 possibilities

1. A fallen angel
2. The High Priest (or representative)
3. Christ himself (his own mind)

1. The OT is silent on such a being - the NT is silent on its origin and has no description anywhere in the record.
2. Is possible - the Pharisees were searching for him
3. Most likely - Received power, no food, weak and having his mind tested just as the children in the wilderness were tested - most likely!

F2F

 

[face2face]

You call them avoidance tactics f2f when in fact they are challenges you refuse.
In my view, this assumed cleverness has short legs, particularly for the observant.

Look Quiet.
Here are some facts:

1. You don't have views you copy and paste text
2. You can't answer simple questions for fear you might actually learn something
3. When pushed you like to play childish words games.

I can post evidence of all the above...so why respond at all? If you lack the integrity to answer honestly, why?

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Look Quiet.
Here are some facts:

1. You don't have views you copy and paste text
2. You can't answer simple questions for fear you might actually learn something
3. When pushed you like to play childish words games.

I can post evidence of all the above...so why respond at all? If you lack the integrity to answer honestly, why?

F2F

You call it 'evidence' and 'facts' when all it is is a refusal on my part to enter into the conversation you are having with yourself as noted in post # 177

 

[quietthinker]

Look Quiet.
Here are some facts:

1. You don't have views you copy and paste text
2. You can't answer simple questions for fear you might actually learn something
3. When pushed you like to play childish words games.

I can post evidence of all the above...so why respond at all? If you lack the integrity to answer honestly, why?

F2F

You call it 'evidence' and 'facts' when all it is is a refusal on my part to enter into the conversation you are having with yourself as noted in post # 177

 

[face2face]

@quietthinker

Lets support my findings with a test.

You believe Hebrews 2:14 is talking about a supernatural being (evil) who is the one who God has given the power of death.

True / false?

Here is the text:

2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil), Heb 2:14.

Show me where in the Bible is the account of God giving this creature (or taking) the power of death, that they are single handily responsible for enslaving mankind.

Show me the origin story of how this evil being gained this power of death?

If you don't understand the questions say so.

Can you explain how Jesus dying on the cross destroyed this evil being and how you believe this being still holds this power today?

Did your Christ fail?

F2F

 

[Zao is life]

Hi Zao,

How are your sins in 2024 represented in a man who died thousands of years ago on a tree?

F2F

God only sees humans in terms of one of two humans: Adam, and Adam. (The first) Adam, and (the last) Adam.

We are all Adam.

Sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned Rom 5:12.

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in (the first) Adam all die, so also in (the last) Adam (Christ) all will be made alive. 1 Cor.15:21-22

God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor.5:21.

He is also called the Son of man. Another way of saying it is "representative of man". He was us. He was you. He was me. Everything Adam ever did or could ever do was laid on Him. This is how our sins in 2024 were laid on Him.

This is why when His Spirit comes to live in the one who believes in Him over 1,900 later, His Spirit still quickens the dead body of the one who He indwells - because He is (the last) Adam.

I still don't know what your take is on it. You're remaining mysterious about it. So I don't know whether or not I would agree with what you say about it.

 

[Zao is life]

The temptation of Christ offers 3 possibilities

1. A fallen angel
2. The High Priest (or representative)
3. Christ himself (his own mind)

1. The OT is silent on such a being - the NT is silent on its origin and has no description anywhere in the record.
2. Is possible - the Pharisees were searching for him
3. Most likely - Received power, no food, weak and having his mind tested just as the children in the wilderness were tested - most likely!

F2F

LoL. Jesus did not tempt Himself. The gospel tells us that He was tempted of the devil (a third party) and I believe scripture (I REALLY believe scripture), so there is no doubt in my mind (and there will never be any doubt in my mind, as long as I believe scripture) that Satan attempted to use our Lord's weakened human state after His 40 days of fasting in the wilderness to throw those temptations before Him, and into His path.

Satan still does that with the saints. Often successfully, in the case of the saints.

@face2face By the way, the Revelation of Jesus Christ identifies the serpent in the Garden of Eden as:

"The dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan" (Rev 20:2),

so the O.T is not silent on such a being.

Jesus calls Satan a murderer from the beginning and a liar and the father of lies in John 8:44.

The beginning is the Garden of Eden,

so the O.T is not silent on such a being.

1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to take a census of Israel.

Zechariah says in Zech 3:1 that a man showed him Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

The book of Job mentions Satan numerous times,

so the O.T is not silent on such a being.

In Revelation 2:10 Jesus tells the Christians in Smyrna that the Devil will cast some of them into prison.

So the entire Bible talks about Satan as a third party, and the O.T is not silent on such a being.​

-- if you believe the scriptures for what they say and don't read things into them that are not there.

 

[gordon7]

Do you guys think you can evidence the ministry of Christ through strife and debate, contention, and dispute.

You wont be silent, but you really should have been.



James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 3:3 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.



Daily you guys of the forums show you can talk and talk, yet when would be the time you would show you can hear, and be slow to do the talk that is never slowed down.