TULIP an open discussion

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setst777

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Mar 24, 2023
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I am familiar with your argument, and I disagree with your conclusion. Essentially, you hold that the warnings in scripture are evidence against predestination.

God has predestined to conform "those who love God" into the image of His Son (Romans 8:28-29). That is what "predestination" means in the New Testament.

God conforms the believer to the image of His Son as the believer remains faithful to put off the old man, and to put on the new man.

Colossians 3:9-12 (WEB) 9 Don’t lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his doings, 10 and have put on the new man, who is being renewed in knowledge after the image of his Creator, 11 where there can’t be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondservant, or free person; but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, humility, and perseverance

The argument is based on the logic of a warning, which understands that warnings imply danger. If the danger didn't exist, then the warning wouldn't be given.

Yes, the warnings are given because the danger exists that they could fall away. That is why the Christians are admonished to be alert, be sober, be vigilant.

Why would God warn his people against falling away if he predestined them to always endure and persevere? The answer is understood from the perspective of God's transcendent position over his creation. Not only is God divinely assigning a destiny to each individual, he does this through narrative. God is creating mini-stories that serve his overall story about sin, punishment, mercy, justice, forgiveness, and redemption.

That is your philosophy.

Warnings are given for various reasons, depending on the context. The warnings we hear are features of our story, the context in which we live out our calling. The presence of warnings fit quite well into a story about perseverance. A story about perseverance will certainly contain warnings about falling away, heading the warnings, and avoiding falling away. Autonomous freewill is not a necessary condition of warnings.

As long as we remain in the faith, we have peace, love, and hope in the promises of God. But true believers can be misled into false doctrine, and many will give into temptations and fall away. So, while believers can rest in the hope of God, the believers also must fear, because God will condemn the believer if he does not continue in the faith.

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB) 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) {{{Let us}}} [Paul includes himself as the "us"} fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his rest.

Paul mentions those who did fall away from THE (definite article) Faith

1 Timothy 1:19 (WEB) 19 “holding faith and a good conscience, which some having thrust away “made a shipwreck” (Greek: enauagēsan) concerning {{{THE faith}}}

1 Timothy 4:1 (WEB) 1 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from {{{THE faith}}}, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons

1 Timothy 6:20 (WEB) Timothy, guard that which is committed to you, turning away from the empty chatter and oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some profess, and thus have wandered from {{{THE faith}}}.

Others in the OT also fell away from the faith and were lost, and this record was written as an example for our admonition.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12 (WEB) 11 Now all these things happened to them by way of example, and they were written for our [Paul includes himself] admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands be careful that he does not fall.

Hebrews 10:26 (WEB) 26 For if we [Paul includes himself] deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins [Hebrews 10:24-31]

Paul warned and admonished with tears for three years that false teachers would speak perverse things and draw away even "The [definite article] Disciples" (true believers who follow Lord Jesus) after them.

Acts 20:29-33 (WEB) 29 For I know that after my departure, vicious wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Men will arise from among your own selves, speaking perverse things, to draw away {{{the disciples}}} after them. 31 Therefore watch, remembering that for a period of three years I didn’t cease to admonish everyone night and day with tears. 32 Now, brothers, I entrust you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build up, and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Why would Paul be admonishing the believers day and night with tears for three years that men will arise among themselves who would draw away "THE (def. Article) disciples after them if this is just - according to you - all according to "God's transcendent position over his creation?"

I've shown you five or six now.

The fact is that there is not one Scripture that states or teaches that our faith in Christ is guaranteed by God - Not even one.
 
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