Righteousness of faith?

[DPMartin]

What is the righteousness of faith? Now granted, James says in so many words that without the fulfillment thereof or works, there is no faith. But this is to look to the righteousness of faith. For example, without the Lord God’s acknowledgment of one’s faith, is one’s faith righteous?

 

[lforrest]

"What is the righteousness of faith?"
That would be the sinless life of Jesus Christ..
Romans 3:22 "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile"


"Without the Lord God’s acknowledgment of one’s faith, is one’s faith righteous?"
No, he is the judge after-all. Their faith must be in him.
Psalm 96:13 "Let all creation rejoice before the Lord, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world inrighteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness."

 

[Purity]

What is the righteousness of faith? Now granted, James says in so many words that without the fulfillment thereof or works, there is no faith. But this is to look to the righteousness of faith. For example, without the Lord God’s acknowledgment of one’s faith, is one’s faith righteous?

To manifest belief in God is in itself a "work of righteousness"

 

[DPMartin]

To manifest belief in God is in itself a "work of righteousness"

The people that were going on about the end of the world that was found false more than once, have faith and belief in what they say is God according to their interpretation of what the Lord says in scripture, that was manifested to most of America. Are you saying that is righteousness because of their faith or expression of their belief?

"What is the righteousness of faith?"
That would be the sinless life of Jesus Christ..
Romans 3:22 "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile"


"Without the Lord God’s acknowledgment of one’s faith, is one’s faith righteous?"
No, he is the judge after-all. Their faith must be in him.
Psalm 96:13 "Let all creation rejoice before the Lord, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world inrighteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness."

I do believe I understand what you mean by that, but doesn’t your quote say the righteousness is given through faith in Jesus? And what you have posted is very different from the KJV:

Rom:3:20: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21: But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22: Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
You say through Jesus, KJV says of Jesus. And the words Jews and Gentiles aren’t even included.

As translated in KJV more accurately, righteousness of God, to omit "righteousness of God" from the verse seems to be a grave error.

Anyway, nothing is good unless God says it is good, He being the Judge. And just the same, righteousness is of God, and only of God. And you don’t have a relationship with someone without acknowledgment. Job had a relationship with the Lord his God and the Lord demonstrated that in the beginning of the book by acknowledging Job as a righteous man. Or Abram who responded to what the Lord his God told him to do in the case of packing his stuff and going to what is now Israel.
One can easily believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Satan and his friends do, heck they even know He is the Son of God, but does the Father acknowledge you through and in the Son, in His Presence? God’s Presence is Righteousness in and of itself that Justifies.

 

[lforrest]

I'll leave the proper translation of Rom:3:22 to someone more skilled in Greek.

The way I understand it there is a basic principle that obedience and righteousness go hand in hand. No one was able to obey the law in it's entirety until Jesus Christ. He is the only one who could obey God's laws, and the only one who can be considered righteous under the law. There was a law even before Moses revealed it, he made clear the high standards of God. When God called someone such as Abraham or Job righteous, it was with his knowledge that they would be saved through Jesus Christ. Now we know of Jesus, and can obey what Jesus commands in the hope that he accepts us. Then through his obedience to the law we can be party to his righteousness.

 

[Purity]

The people that were going on about the end of the world that was found false more than once, have faith and belief in what they say is God according to their interpretation of what the Lord says in scripture, that was manifested to most of America. Are you saying that is righteousness because of their faith or expression of their belief?

Only God imputes righteousness and imputes sin. The only definition of this I know for sure is found in Rom 4:4,8,9

Its not whether you have a foreskin or not imputed righteousness is possessing a living faith. In fact Paul is clear Abrahams faith was before he cut off his foreskin.

Its reckoned by Grace.

 

[DPMartin]

I'll leave the proper translation of Rom:3:22 to someone more skilled in Greek.

The way I understand it there is a basic principle that obedience and righteousness go hand in hand. No one was able to obey the law in it's entirety until Jesus Christ. He is the only one who could obey God's laws, and the only one who can be considered righteous under the law. There was a law even before Moses revealed it, he made clear the high standards of God. When God called someone such as Abraham or Job righteous, it was with his knowledge that they would be saved through Jesus Christ. Now we know of Jesus, and can obey what Jesus commands in the hope that he accepts us. Then through his obedience to the law we can be party to his righteousness.

This is true, to take it a step further consider in
Lk 3:38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

States that Adam was son of God. Hence the fulfillment of what the Son of God is, is stated in the law and the prophets according to the satisfaction of the Father. God’s Son and who and what He is and the fulfillment therein was what was given through out the covenants. Hence men without being sons of God cannot fulfill the law nor the prophets.

In other words the law given by the hand of Moses is the Lord’s more detailed description of Himself and His Way of which without His Life no one can be like.
For example I can be like my parents in worldly fashion because I have received the life they have given me. As a matter of fact I will be like them in the life they have given me, it’s a matter of what one does with it. But I can’t be like your parents I don’t have the same attributes as your parents do. The same is for us in Christ, being born of God’s Spirit is to receive the Life that Christ has. Therefore now we are empowered to be like unto the Son, according to the satisfaction of the Father.

Only God imputes righteousness and imputes sin. The only definition of this I know for sure is found in Rom 4:4,8,9

Its not whether you have a foreskin or not imputed righteousness is possessing a living faith. In fact Paul is clear Abrahams faith was before he cut off his foreskin.

Its reckoned by Grace.

Though you are correct about only God imputes Righteousness, I don’t think Paul was describing that only males can be righteous because they have foreskin that can be circumcised. Nor does the scriptures say females can’t be righteous by faith. Nor was it indicated in ancient or modern Israeli culture. God has chosen women as well as men amongst His People many times and has responded to their requests, for example Samuel’s mother Hannah.
I know a lot of preachers seek scripture to justify their ignorance of God’s will in the case of men and women, but Eve was no less then Adam in that Eve received the life Adam had. But it was through Adam and the Lord God isn’t going to take away what He has agreed to give in the world. So through men was the relationship, in most cases. Wasn’t it through a woman, and not a man, the sons of men can receive eternal Salvation in Jesus Christ? Though what God does may not give personal satisfaction, we must trust that He knows what is good for all in His creation.

You must understand God is not out to change the world nor human nature, He is going to replace it. With His Son and His nature. Hence the offering of Peace with God before this comes to pass.
You drive a car until it doesn’t do what you bought it for any more and no matter what its not going to work any more, at that point you don’t care what’s wrong with it you replace it. In the day of the gentile which seems to be coming to a immediate end. If it bring souls to Jesus its probably a keeper but if it doesn’t do that any more no matter what you do to it, its time to replace it.

 

[Purity]

Though you are correct about only God imputes Righteousness, I don’t think Paul was describing that only males can be righteous because they have foreskin that can be circumcised. Nor does the scriptures say females can’t be righteous by faith. Nor was it indicated in ancient or modern Israeli culture. God has chosen women as well as men amongst His People many times and has responded to their requests, for example Samuel’s mother Hannah.

The cutting away flesh as a principle can be practiced by both genders - universal teaching Gal 5:24.

I know a lot of preachers seek scripture to justify their ignorance of God’s will in the case of men and women, but Eve was no less then Adam in that Eve received the life Adam had.

I agree - they held diff responsibilities.

But it was through Adam and the Lord God isn’t going to take away what He has agreed to give in the world. So through men was the relationship, in most cases. Wasn’t it through a woman, and not a man, the sons of men can receive eternal Salvation in Jesus Christ? Though what God does may not give personal satisfaction, we must trust that He knows what is good for all in His creation.

You must understand God is not out to change the world nor human nature, He is going to replace it. With His Son and His nature. Hence the offering of Peace with God before this comes to pass.

You drive a car until it doesn’t do what you bought it for any more and no matter what its not going to work any more, at that point you don’t care what’s wrong with it you replace it. In the day of the gentile which seems to be coming to a immediate end. If it bring souls to Jesus its probably a keeper but if it doesn’t do that any more no matter what you do to it, its time to replace it.

A soul simply means a living breathing creature and its the soul of a person which requires changing in the twinkling of an eye this mortal soul will put on immortality.

Only imputed righteousness can bring about such a change for without righteousness no man or woman shall see God.

P.

 

[DPMartin]

Circumcision of the foreskin and crucifixion are not the same, nor does scripture in any way associate the two as the same. Crucifixion of Christ is associated to the lambs that are offered that are of the heard. As in Lamb of God, which is the covenant. Circumcision of the foreskin is a seal of the covenant. Hence as Paul states circumcised by Spirit. And John says that the Holy Spirit is a seal unto our salvation.

 

[Purity]

Circumcision of the foreskin and crucifixion are not the same, nor does scripture in any way associate the two as the same. Crucifixion of Christ is associated to the lambs that are offered that are of the heard. As in Lamb of God, which is the covenant. Circumcision of the foreskin is a seal of the covenant. Hence as Paul states circumcised by Spirit. And John says that the Holy Spirit is a seal unto our salvation.

DP - ( I am shaking my head)

The spiritual principle in cutting off the flesh is the same as putting it to death.

Lift your mind higher.

Circumcision of the flesh is to repudiation (cutting of) of flesh: Gal 5:24.

In AV, "foreskin" = "prepuce". From rt "arel" = to be naked, unclean. Nakedness sym sin: Gen 3:11; Rev 3:18. Circumcision is a cutting off of sin's flesh. Being situated in the organ of generation, God's mark of circumcision brought home to the individual that he was a member of the divine family. His redemption would not be thru the flesh.

Nakedness is a symbol of sin (Gen 3:11; Rev 16:15; cp. Hab 2:16), and therefore circumcision is a cutting off of sin's flesh.

Lets lift that mind a little higher shall we DP?

Circumcision is spiritually manifested in the "putting off of the sins of the flesh," the first act of which is baptism. All "in Christ" are circumcised, being "in him" who was circumcised on the eighth day, according to the Law (see Php 3:3; Col 2:11-12; Eph 4:22; Joh 6:63). A token is both a pledge and a picture. Thus Paul writes that circumcision was a seal of Abraham's righteousness (Rom 4:11). As a token, it was not a mark intended to be seen by others, but only by the circumcised individual himself. It reminded him of Yahweh's reception of him personally as a partaker in the covenant blessings; whilst, on the other hand, reminding him of his individual responsibilities as a member of the covenant people. Being situated in the organ of generation, the mark of circumcision brought home to the individual that he was a member of the Divine family; and that his redemption would not be through the flesh. It reminded him of his responsibilities to God which were greater than those to the members of his fleshly family.

P.

 

[lforrest]

I believe this bares further study on how one can increase in righteousness. Is this done simply by learning the word and obeying the commandment of agape?

 

[shturt678]

DP - ( I am shaking my head)

The spiritual principle in cutting off the flesh is the same as putting it to death.

Lift your mind higher.

Circumcision of the flesh is to repudiation (cutting of) of flesh: Gal 5:24.

In AV, "foreskin" = "prepuce". From rt "arel" = to be naked, unclean. Nakedness sym sin: Gen 3:11; Rev 3:18. Circumcision is a cutting off of sin's flesh. Being situated in the organ of generation, God's mark of circumcision brought home to the individual that he was a member of the divine family. His redemption would not be thru the flesh.

Nakedness is a symbol of sin (Gen 3:11; Rev 16:15; cp. Hab 2:16), and therefore circumcision is a cutting off of sin's flesh.

Lets lift that mind a little higher shall we DP?

Circumcision is spiritually manifested in the "putting off of the sins of the flesh," the first act of which is baptism. All "in Christ" are circumcised, being "in him" who was circumcised on the eighth day, according to the Law (see Php 3:3; Col 2:11-12; Eph 4:22; Joh 6:63). A token is both a pledge and a picture. Thus Paul writes that circumcision was a seal of Abraham's righteousness (Rom 4:11). As a token, it was not a mark intended to be seen by others, but only by the circumcised individual himself. It reminded him of Yahweh's reception of him personally as a partaker in the covenant blessings; whilst, on the other hand, reminding him of his individual responsibilities as a member of the covenant people. Being situated in the organ of generation, the mark of circumcision brought home to the individual that he was a member of the Divine family; and that his redemption would not be through the flesh. It reminded him of his responsibilities to God which were greater than those to the members of his fleshly family.

P.

Thank you for caring!

Only had a question regarding the water baptism side, that is, "a picture" and nothing more?

Thank you my brother,

Old Jack

I believe this bares further study on how one can increase in righteousness. Is this done simply by learning the word and obeying the commandment of agape?

Liked especially the agape part!

No refute intended. Again "righteousness" is invisible pronounced secretly in heaven where one had the seal of circumcision in the Old Covenant, the seal of water baptism in the New Covenant which was already explained earlier, ie, to which the Lord added the Passover in the Old and Lord added the Lord the Lord's Supper in the New, that is, not forgetting the Jews and Gentiles righteous in Abe's foreskin, good area!

Old Jack just yakking away

 

[lforrest]

Liked especially the agape part!

No refute intended. Again "righteousness" is invisible pronounced secretly in heaven where one had the seal of circumcision in the Old Covenant, the seal of water baptism in the New Covenant which was already explained earlier, ie, to which the Lord added the Passover in the Old and Lord added the Lord the Lord's Supper in the New, that is, not forgetting the Jews and Gentiles righteous in Abe's foreskin, good area!

Old Jack just yakking away

Ya lost me there, way over my understanding atm.

Our righteousness is not our own, but we are actually partakers in Christ's righteousness. To increase in his righteousness it seems necessary to get to know him better. The Word speaks of him and the poor and the repressed, widows and orphans are his heart.

Isn't the bare minimum specified in Matthew 7:21-23

 

[shturt678]

Ya lost me there, way over my understanding atm.

Our righteousness is not our own, but we are actually partakers in Christ's righteousness. To increase in his righteousness it seems necessary to get to know him better. The Word speaks of him and the poor and the repressed, widows and orphans are his heart.

Isn't the bare minimum specified in Matthew 7:21-23

Thank you for your response and caring!

Failed to proofread my post, even losing myself...had to reread it again, sorry 'bout that one. Absolutely, our "righteousness " is not our own...you got it better than me...thank you again! Getting to know Him better....excellent!

Old Jack

I did want to mention that long ago, I really wanted to believe my most esteemed doctorate Pastor regarding being "righteous" upon my passing, where now it's not that far off, finding out later that it's a forensic and secret judgment call from heaven by our Lord where my Pastor was in error on this one opening my eyes long ago...thank you Jesus - not implying that I have it correct now as I get to know Him better as we work together.