Perceptual Reality and Spiritual Understanding

[quietthinker]

What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 12:31 NIV
Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. ...

1 Corinthians 14:1 NIV
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

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My understanding through the years has grown (changed, honed)
I recall as a young person being confused about the various views presented. One day I came across this ditty, 'be my feelings what they will, Jesus is my Saviour still' It was the source of immense comfort....and still is. Some of my experiences have been shameful and I am embarrassed when I recall them yet through it all there is this immoveable rock which follows me where 'er I go.....and I sing loudly and enthusiastically with John Newton, Amazing Grace.....

 

[ScottA]

"... through a glass, darkly; but then face to face..." - 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV

This thread was inspired by a Podcast titled:
The Smoke Show - The Heavenly Banquet
(title linked - check it out)
This is not a transcript, but some ideas were lifted from there. (disclaimer - LOL)

Many years ago my wife and I had a curious experience.
We were driving home from an evening meeting on a winding parkway near our home.
Something large and dark came at us from the roadside. We both braced for impact.
But to our relief and amazement, nothing happened. The dark shadow we both
saw seemed to go underneath the car and then disappear. ???
No sound of impact and no damage to the car. Left us wondering.

Our view of the world is deeply personal, though often shared with others.
Our senses can fail us. (Podcast)
Spiritual realities are both seen and hidden. (Podcast)
The filter of our physical perception effects our spiritual understanding.

Separating illusion from reality. Was that really a miracle?
Or is there a rational explanation?

And our spiritual upbringing gives us a lens we use to view these things.
We tend to reject anything that doesn't look right through that lens.
Our objectivity is colored by our subjectivity. Fact versus opinion.

Discussion questions:
1) How has your spiritual understanding been formed by your personal perceptions? (the upbringing lens)
2) Do you accept, or reject the views of others with a different upbringing lens?
3) Are you more likely to be open, or closed to a potential miracle?
4) To what degree should we apply skepticism?

\ cc: @Chadrho

If we see as the world sees, we will then trust in the world. Yet, just as what is written in the scriptures is as much as foolishness to the natural and worldly person, all things come as if in a foreign tongue or perhaps crazy as if all are drunk on new wine. These things are written.

On the contrary, if we come to know God in spirit, we can know that all that is seen is made manifest as a form of revelation: revelation by space, time, and matter...as it were. Each thing whether written or made manifest then, can be viewed as revelation. As such-- what then is the message, the revelation? Is it not all too immense to piece together?

Certainly, if we look at and are overwhelmed with the trees, the forest is indeed an unattainable perspective. Consider therefore, that just as God has unfolded creation and all of history from one man Adam, and has proceeded to refold all into one man Jesus Christ--we will do better to consider the overall in summary, and only then consider the details of the greater mystery of God. What does that look like?

It looks like: belief. Belief, is essentially receiving what is greater by the character of something less. In this case, Jesus. Which we do by a summary of His greater accomplishments, which then comes to include all of creation and the universe. Unfortunately, many do the same with unworthy characters and things that are not true. The good news is...what is actually true, can all be validated by His knock on the door within our soul. Which then becomes that new spiritual window and perspective, and then a door.

 

[St. SteVen]

My understanding through the years has grown (changed, honed)

We are all on this journey. And many various paths described via testimony.

 

[St. SteVen]

If we see as the world sees, we will then trust in the world. Yet, just as what is written in the scriptures is as much as foolishness to the natural and worldly person, all things come as if in a foreign tongue or perhaps crazy as if all are drunk on new wine. These things are written.

Yes, the scriptures are very inspiring. If that's what you meant?

Certainly, if we look at and are overwhelmed with the trees, the forest is indeed an unattainable perspective. Consider therefore, that just as God has unfolded creation and all of history from one man Adam, and has proceeded to refold all into one man Jesus Christ--we will do better to consider the overall in summary, and only then consider the details of the greater mystery of God. What does that look like?

Agree, thanks.

It looks like: belief. Belief, is essentially receiving what is greater by the character of something less. In this case, Jesus. Which we do by a summary of His greater accomplishments, which then comes to include all of creation and the universe. Unfortunately, many do the same with unworthy characters and things that are not true. The good news is...what is actually true, can all be validated by His knock on the door within our soul. Which then becomes that new spiritual window and perspective, and then a door.

Good post!
This is SOLID gold!

"The good news is...what is actually true, can all be validated by His knock on the door within our soul.
Which then becomes that new spiritual window and perspective, and then a door." - Scott A

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[Ronald Nolette]

What do you make of this?

1 Corinthians 12:31 NIV
Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. ...

1 Corinthians 14:1 NIV
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

[

1 Corinthians 14

King James Version

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14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Now prophesy is a wonderful gift. We measure the prophecy by seeing if it matches Scripture or contradicts or reinteprets Scripture. If it does either of the latter- it is to be resisted completely!

God closed the Canon of Scripture long ago. so new revelations that counter Scripture or reinterpret Scriptures will ever come forth from the Lord.

Personal prophecies or prophecies concerning the welfare of fortunes of a church or nation? sure, but given the vast amount of false prophecies- We must act very carefully.

 

[St. SteVen]

1 Corinthians 14​

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King James Version​

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14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Now prophesy is a wonderful gift. We measure the prophecy by seeing if it matches Scripture or contradicts or reinteprets Scripture. If it does either of the latter- it is to be resisted completely!

God closed the Canon of Scripture long ago. so new revelations that counter Scripture or reinterpret Scriptures will ever come forth from the Lord.

Personal prophecies or prophecies concerning the welfare of fortunes of a church or nation? sure, but given the vast amount of false prophecies- We must act very carefully.

Verse 3 gives a definition of prophecy for 1 Corinthians chapter 14. And chapters 12 and 13 for that matter.

"But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort." - vs 3 NIV

It's not about foretelling (future predictions) or forth-telling (preaching).
It is about "words" of strengthening, encouragement and comfort.

Obviously prophecy needs to align with scripture, but most anything that is strengthening, encouraging and comforting would do that.
The opposite of what the enemy intends. "Steal, kill and destroy." (compared to abundant life)

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