God The Father, God The Son

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ByGraceThroughFaith

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God The Father, God The Son in 2 John

In the Apostle John’s Second Letter, we have a very powerful testimony to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His complete equality with The Father.

“πᾶς ὁ παραβαίνων καὶ μὴ μένων ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, Θεὸν οὐκ ἔχει· ὁ μένων ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, οὗτος καὶ τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει” (verse 9)

"Anyone who transgresses, and remains not in the teaching of the Christ, has not God. He that remains in the teaching of the Christ, this one both the Father and the Son has" (literal)

The person who is not faithful to the Teachings of Jesus Christ, this person does not possess the True God of the Holy Bible. However, the person who does remain faithful to the Teachings of Jesus Christ, this one possesses, both the Father and the Son.

Note very closely the language here. In the first instance, those who transgress by not remaining in the Teachings of Christ, are said not to possess “God”. On the other hand, those who do so remain in the Teachings of Christ, are said to possess “both the Father and the Son”. We would have expected John to have written, “this has God”, which would correspond with the previous sentence, where he spoke of those who transgress, as having “not God”. But, this he does not do. However, John says that, “God” is BOTH The Father and The Son!

Firstly, in the Greek text, John writes, “Θεὸν”, and not “τὸν Θεὸν”. Because, like in John 1:1, where it says, “και θεος ην ο λογος”, “and the Word was God”, it is the “nature”, and not the “Person”, that is being described, so the Greek article is not used. In John 1:18, according to the best textual evidence, we read the same, “θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης θεὸς”, where both uses of “God”, do not have the definite article in the Greek. In neither case would the English read, “god”, or “a god”, unless it is for theology! The correct reading is, “God”. Interesting, that in all three places, the New Testament by Dr George Noyes, reads: “God”. Noyes was a Unitarian!

Secondly, we have the Greek sentence, “οὗτος καὶ τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει” (this one possesses, both the Father and the Son). In the first use, the Greek particle, “καὶ”, is used, as “both”, and in the second use, as “connecting”, that is “The Father and The Son”, being Two distinct Persons, as is clear from the use of the article, “τὸν”.

In the First Letter of John, we have a very similar passage, where the Essential Unity of the Father and the Son is clearly seen.

“Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son (τον πατερα και τον υιον). Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either (τὸν Υἱὸν οὐδὲ τὸν Πατέρα ἔχει); he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also (τὸν Υἱὸν καὶ τὸν Πατέρα ἔχει)” (1 John 2:22-23)

To deny that Jesus IS The Christ/Messiah, is actually to deny the God of the Bible, by this denial, and does not possess either the Father and the Son. The person who acknowledges Jesus Christ, has the Father also, where the Greek particle “καὶ”, is translated “also”.

Similar language can be seen in John 10:30, where Jesus says: “I and the Father are one”. The plurality of Persons is clear from the use of “ἐσμεν”, which in the Greek is in the masculine gender, and plural in number. “We are”, not simply, “are”. Which is also seen in the use of “I”, as distinguished from “the Father”, which is with the Greek article, “ὁ”. However, the use of “one” is in the neuter gender, “ἕν” literally, “one thing”, or, “one being”. So, the text has the meaning, that, We, Who are distinct as Two separate Persons, and yet one with regard to our being, or nature.

The evidence is very clear to the fact, as taught in Scripture, that the Father and the Son, though clearly separate as Persons, are yet equal as Deity. In which case neither could be the “source” of the other’s life or being. Nor could either one exist before the other. All of which is also very true with regard to the Holy Spirit.
 

Taken

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Creator .....called Father............called Yahweh.....called God
Maker .......called Son...............called Jesus........called Lord
Power .......called Holy Spirit......called Christ.......called Almighty

Creator, Maker, Holy Spirit..... IS One Lord God Almighty

Two Worlds - Heavens and Earth - (created and made)
Two Kingdoms - Heaven and Earth - (created and made)
Two Kinds of Beings - Celestials and Terrestrials (created and made)
Celestials Estate - Heavenly Kingdom
Terrestrials Estate - Earthly Kingdom

Two Kinds of Freewill - Good, (With God) - Evil, (Against God)
Celestials - Heavenly - (created, made, power) Freewill
Terrestrials - Earthly - (created, made, power) Freewill

Lord God Almighty - IS
* ALL MIGHT * ALL knowing * ALL seeing * ALL power
~ CELESTIALS ~ MUCH knowing ~ MUCH seeing ~ MUCH power
` TERRESTRIALS `LITTLE knowing ` LITTLE seeing ` LITTLE power

In a nut shell, Big Picture;
* Lord God Almighty’s WILL MANIFESTED.
* Two Worlds Become MADE ONE WORLD.
* Two Kingdoms Become MADE ONE KINGDOM.
* One King Becomes MADE KING of conjoined TWO WORLDS.
* One King Becomes MADE KING of conjoined TWO KINGDOMS.
* Occupants, Celestials and Terrestrials MADE, ONE LIKENESS.
* Occupants, ONE LIKENESS - with - Lord God Almighty.
* Occupants, ANOTHER LIKENESS - without - Lord God Almighty.

 
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Taken

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*Note*
Almighty (Lord God), IS supreme Power. His Supreme Power IS His Glory.
Created and Made celestials do have and terrestrials shall have
“Much Power”, but “NEVER” shall have “ALL” power -
~ Gods Glory, God shall “NEVER” give “to an other.”

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The Heavenly Father, CAN NOT be seen by terrestrials.
The Heavenly Father, CAN NOT be heard by terrestrials.

John 5:
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

* Gods (Order, Way, Will) Sent His Word From Heaven TO Earth; (without His Reputation OF Glory/Power) in the LIKENESS as a terrestrial man, to be SEEN and HEARD by terrestrial men.

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 8:
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Isa 66:
[1] Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

John 9:
[39] And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

John 16:
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Heb. 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body (form) hast thou prepared me:

WHEN HE COMETH FROM HIS WORLD, HEAVEN, GODS THRONE, TO THIS WORLD, GODS FOOTSTOOL...

HE COMETH, IN A PREPARED BODY, TO BE SEEN, BY Terrestrial men.

HE COMETH, WITH, IS; GODS WORD, TO BE HEARD, By Terrestrial men.

HE COMETH, WITH, A RELATIONSHIP GOD ESTABLISHED;

(Heb 1:
[
5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

HE COMETH, WITHOUT, REPUTATION; POWER/GLORY.

HE COMETH, WITHOUT, REPUTATION; WISDOM; ALL KNOWING.

HE COMETH, WITHOUT, REPUTATION: Son of man, JESUS

HIS Reputation WAS Revealed: Son of God, Sinless, IS CHRIST, IS POWER of God, IS WISDOM of God, IS SEED of God, IS Quickening SPIRIT, IS EVERLASTING, IS GOD.

He RETURNED To HEAVEN, His World, His Throne...WITH His ALL POWER.
 
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Taken

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He SHALL RETURN To Earth, AS, the Son of man, JESUS, (to be Seen by men, Heard by men); RETURNING To Earth, WITH His Reputation; CHRIST, ALL POWER of God.

Gods WILL?
DIVISION;

*Establish and Reveal the DIVIDING.
(The DIVIDING, Began in the Beginning, Established by God,
Divided Worlds, Divided Occupants of Heaven and Earth, Divided Light and Dark, Divided People, Divided Good and Evil...etc.
Gen 1 & forward 4,000 years)
*Continue the DIVIDING.
(Luke 12:51, John 7:43 - of People on Earth -WITH and WITHOUT God,
2,000+ years, 7 years, 1,000 years
* Make FINAL the DIVIDING.
* The FINALITY of DIVIDING, “by” SEPARATING the DIVIDED.
* 7 thousand years of DIVIDING, FINISHED, ENDED, DONE.
* 8th thousandth year, ANEW EVERLASTING.
* SEPARATION of the Divided accomplished,
WITHOUT the Lord God Almighty, OLD, remembered no more.
WITH the Lord God Almighty, ANEW, forever WITH God.
* FREELY choosing WITH Him Forever.
* FREELY choosing WITHOUT Him Forever.

7 thousand years of the created, given Knowledge, Free to believe the knowledge (or not), Free to be with God (or not).
7 thousand years of the created, Freely Deciding their own Standing of Division....with or without God.
7 thousand years ENDS, Separating the Divided forever.
8 thousandth year BEGINS, Divided and Separated WITH God forever; Divided and Separated WITHOUT God forever.

Praise, Worship, Glory unto our ONE Great Lord God Almighty,

Taken
 

Taken

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WORD of God - IS God - IS always WITHIN God.
POWER of God - IS God - IS always WITHIN God.
WISDOM of God - IS God - IS always WITHIN God.


John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
 
J

Johann

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God The Father, God The Son in 2 John

In the Apostle John’s Second Letter, we have a very powerful testimony to the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His complete equality with The Father.

“πᾶς ὁ παραβαίνων καὶ μὴ μένων ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, Θεὸν οὐκ ἔχει· ὁ μένων ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, οὗτος καὶ τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει” (verse 9)

"Anyone who transgresses, and remains not in the teaching of the Christ, has not God. He that remains in the teaching of the Christ, this one both the Father and the Son has" (literal)

The person who is not faithful to the Teachings of Jesus Christ, this person does not possess the True God of the Holy Bible. However, the person who does remain faithful to the Teachings of Jesus Christ, this one possesses, both the Father and the Son.

Note very closely the language here. In the first instance, those who transgress by not remaining in the Teachings of Christ, are said not to possess “God”. On the other hand, those who do so remain in the Teachings of Christ, are said to possess “both the Father and the Son”. We would have expected John to have written, “this has God”, which would correspond with the previous sentence, where he spoke of those who transgress, as having “not God”. But, this he does not do. However, John says that, “God” is BOTH The Father and The Son!

Firstly, in the Greek text, John writes, “Θεὸν”, and not “τὸν Θεὸν”. Because, like in John 1:1, where it says, “και θεος ην ο λογος”, “and the Word was God”, it is the “nature”, and not the “Person”, that is being described, so the Greek article is not used. In John 1:18, according to the best textual evidence, we read the same, “θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης θεὸς”, where both uses of “God”, do not have the definite article in the Greek. In neither case would the English read, “god”, or “a god”, unless it is for theology! The correct reading is, “God”. Interesting, that in all three places, the New Testament by Dr George Noyes, reads: “God”. Noyes was a Unitarian!

Secondly, we have the Greek sentence, “οὗτος καὶ τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὸν υἱὸν ἔχει” (this one possesses, both the Father and the Son). In the first use, the Greek particle, “καὶ”, is used, as “both”, and in the second use, as “connecting”, that is “The Father and The Son”, being Two distinct Persons, as is clear from the use of the article, “τὸν”.

In the First Letter of John, we have a very similar passage, where the Essential Unity of the Father and the Son is clearly seen.

“Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son (τον πατερα και τον υιον). Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either (τὸν Υἱὸν οὐδὲ τὸν Πατέρα ἔχει); he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also (τὸν Υἱὸν καὶ τὸν Πατέρα ἔχει)” (1 John 2:22-23)

To deny that Jesus IS The Christ/Messiah, is actually to deny the God of the Bible, by this denial, and does not possess either the Father and the Son. The person who acknowledges Jesus Christ, has the Father also, where the Greek particle “καὶ”, is translated “also”.

Similar language can be seen in John 10:30, where Jesus says: “I and the Father are one”. The plurality of Persons is clear from the use of “ἐσμεν”, which in the Greek is in the masculine gender, and plural in number. “We are”, not simply, “are”. Which is also seen in the use of “I”, as distinguished from “the Father”, which is with the Greek article, “ὁ”. However, the use of “one” is in the neuter gender, “ἕν” literally, “one thing”, or, “one being”. So, the text has the meaning, that, We, Who are distinct as Two separate Persons, and yet one with regard to our being, or nature.

The evidence is very clear to the fact, as taught in Scripture, that the Father and the Son, though clearly separate as Persons, are yet equal as Deity. In which case neither could be the “source” of the other’s life or being. Nor could either one exist before the other. All of which is also very true with regard to the Holy Spirit.

Guess you knew that the early Jews believed in '2 powers' with a threefold holiness, binatarians.
You really are doing a sterling work for the cause of Christ Jesus, our great God and Savior.
Shalom to you and family Grace/Xharis.
J.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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Guess you knew that the early Jews believed in '2 powers' with a threefold holiness, binatarians.
You really are doing a sterling work for the cause of Christ Jesus, our great God and Savior.
Shalom to you and family Grace/Xharis.
J.

the Jews that lived before Jesus was Born, during His time on earth, in the Targum translations of the Hebrew Old Testament, in many places have "the Memra of Yahweh", which is "the Word of the Lord". But, this is not the "spoken Word", as in "God says", but a Person, Who is Creator; and Himself Yahweh;

Genesis 17:1, Targum Neofiti, which dates from about the 1st century AD, reads

“When Abram was ninety-nine years, the Memra of the Lord was revealed to Abram and said to him: “I am the God o f the heavens. Serve before me in truth and be perfect in good work”

17:2, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum:“and I will set a covenant between My Word and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly much”

17:3, Targum Neofiti, “And Abram prostrated himself upon his face and the Memra of the Lord spoke with him saying”

17:7, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “And I will establish My covenant between My Word and thee”

17:10, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “This is My covenant which you shall keep between My Word and you and thy sons after thee”

17:11, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between My Word and you”

17:22, The Samaritan Version reads: “the Angel of the Lord ascended up from Abraham” (J. W. Etheridge; Targum Onkelos, note 79)

18:17, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “And the Lord said, with His Word, I cannot hide from Abraham that which I am about to do”

22:1, Palestinian Targum: “and the Word of the Lord at once tried Abraham, and said to him, Abraham! And he said, Behold me”

30:22, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord remembered Rahel in His good compassions, and the Word of the Lord heard the voice of her prayer”

31:9, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord hath taken away”

31:34, Targum Onkelos: “The Word of the Lord will observe between me and thee”

31:50, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “the Word of the Lord is witness between me and thee”

35:9, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord blessed them, and the Word of the Lord said to them, Be strong and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it”

38:25, Jerusalem Targum: “In that hour the Word of the Lord heard the voice of her supplication and said to Mikael”

Exodus 3:13, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord said to Mosheh, He who spake to the world, Be, and it was; and who will speak to it, Be, and it will be”

Exodus 19:17, Targum Onkelos: “And Mosheh led forth the people out of the camp to meet the Word of the Lord”

Genesis 1:27, “And the Memra (Word) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them." (Targum Jerusalem)
 
J

Johann

Guest
...Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation. When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAVRESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two." Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAVLAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESHYUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad. G-d is
echad,one, but a complex one,
not three g-ds, only Hashem,
One, but with Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold holiness, Isa 6:3).
OJB

Sterling work Grace
J.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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871
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...Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation. When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAVRESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two." Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAVLAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESHYUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad. G-d is
echad,one, but a complex one,
not three g-ds, only Hashem,
One, but with Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold holiness, Isa 6:3).
OJB

Sterling work Grace
J.

Excellent work yourself!
 
J

Johann

Guest
the Jews that lived before Jesus was Born, during His time on earth, in the Targum translations of the Hebrew Old Testament, in many places have "the Memra of Yahweh", which is "the Word of the Lord". But, this is not the "spoken Word", as in "God says", but a Person, Who is Creator; and Himself Yahweh;

Genesis 17:1, Targum Neofiti, which dates from about the 1st century AD, reads

“When Abram was ninety-nine years, the Memra of the Lord was revealed to Abram and said to him: “I am the God o f the heavens. Serve before me in truth and be perfect in good work”

17:2, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum:“and I will set a covenant between My Word and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly much”

17:3, Targum Neofiti, “And Abram prostrated himself upon his face and the Memra of the Lord spoke with him saying”

17:7, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “And I will establish My covenant between My Word and thee”

17:10, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “This is My covenant which you shall keep between My Word and you and thy sons after thee”

17:11, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between My Word and you”

17:22, The Samaritan Version reads: “the Angel of the Lord ascended up from Abraham” (J. W. Etheridge; Targum Onkelos, note 79)

18:17, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “And the Lord said, with His Word, I cannot hide from Abraham that which I am about to do”

22:1, Palestinian Targum: “and the Word of the Lord at once tried Abraham, and said to him, Abraham! And he said, Behold me”

30:22, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord remembered Rahel in His good compassions, and the Word of the Lord heard the voice of her prayer”

31:9, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord hath taken away”

31:34, Targum Onkelos: “The Word of the Lord will observe between me and thee”

31:50, Targum Onkelos, Palestinian Targum: “the Word of the Lord is witness between me and thee”

35:9, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord blessed them, and the Word of the Lord said to them, Be strong and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it”

38:25, Jerusalem Targum: “In that hour the Word of the Lord heard the voice of her supplication and said to Mikael”

Exodus 3:13, Jerusalem Targum: “And the Word of the Lord said to Mosheh, He who spake to the world, Be, and it was; and who will speak to it, Be, and it will be”

Exodus 19:17, Targum Onkelos: “And Mosheh led forth the people out of the camp to meet the Word of the Lord”

Genesis 1:27, “And the Memra (Word) of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them." (Targum Jerusalem)

Sterling work Grace.
J.