“the day after Saturday which is Sunday on which the Lord rose from the dead” most scandalous Christian fraud

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The taking for granted of the existence of the supposed ‘second manuscript copy’ of Justin Martyr’s ‘Apology To The Emperor’ which in Christian apologetics regularly is seen ‘quoted’ as proving “the day after Saturday which is Sunday on which the Lord rose from the dead”, Prima Facie is retroactively applied Ex Post Facto evidence. In other words, the practice of quoting and relying on these words in today’s paper and print books, means what is presumed is something no exhibitable evidence in originals exists for, and must be presumed in defiance of the absence of evidence whether confirming or to the contrary. The real original or a real copy of the original source in which the word Sunday presumably or supposedly would have existed, cannot be shown as it does not exist.

The truth or untruth of the assumption of the existence in early Christian writings of Sunday therefore is an assumption disprovable by Argumentum Ex Silentio – by argument/inference from silence/absence, by logic, and by predictability. In short—BY ABSENCE OF SCRIPTURE simply!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
This is off the subject but I think it's something that needs saying from time
to time.

Internet forums have given many of Christ's obscure followers a convenient
venue for sharing their time-won knowledge and experience with a
worldwide audience. For the world's sake (if not Christ's) I highly
recommend making an effort to compose legible posts; neatly arranged,
sensible, coherent, and tidy.

Excessive bolding, underscoring, and italics, lack of adequate paragraphing,
twitter spelling, unnecessary emogies, horrible grammar, confusing mixtures
of fonts and colors, and/or shouting with caps and oversize letters, makes
for tiresome clutter and annoying graffiti that leave a bad impression.

Some people's posts resemble the obnoxious placards of worked-up
protesters and political activists; yelling, shrieking, and sometimes even
spraying spittle. They are beyond reason and objectivity in their desperation
to be taken seriously. Apparently they assume that if only they shout loud
enough, make themselves irritating enough, and hold out long enough;
maybe they'll get their point across and somebody will finally listen.

I rather suspect that some people regard forums as a canvas for painting
their comments instead of composing them. Well; that might be okay for
outsiders, they can scrawl and splash and be as messy as they want because
their comments don't matter anyway. But for those of us who honestly
believe ourselves to be representing God's son; that kind of penmanship is
unacceptable because it reflects on Christ and makes him look like his
followers are desperate kooks.
_

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

The taking for granted of the existence of the supposed ‘second manuscript copy’ of Justin Martyr’s ‘Apology To The Emperor’ which in Christian apologetics regularly is seen ‘quoted’ as proving “the day after Saturday which is Sunday on which the Lord rose from the dead”, Prima Facie is retroactively applied Ex Post Facto evidence. In other words, the practice of quoting and relying on these words in today’s paper and print books, means what is presumed is something no exhibitable evidence in originals exists for, and must be presumed in defiance of the absence of evidence whether confirming or to the contrary. The real original or a real copy of the original source in which the word Sunday presumably or supposedly would have existed, cannot be shown as it does not exist.

The truth or untruth of the assumption of the existence in early Christian writings of Sunday therefore is an assumption disprovable by Argumentum Ex Silentio – by argument/inference from silence/absence, by logic, and by predictability. In short—BY ABSENCE OF SCRIPTURE simply!

Dear Christian, I don't care what those documents say or what your Latin says. The new covenant of Jesus did away with the external aspects of the old one. Therefore, the early church could choose any day of the week they wanted to in order to worship on the Lord's Day. It was appropriate to celebrate Jesus' resurrection on the first day.

 

[ChristinaL]

Dear Christian, I don't care what those documents say or what your Latin says. The new covenant of Jesus did away with the external aspects of the old one. Therefore, the early church could choose any day of the week they wanted to in order to worship on the Lord's Day. It was appropriate to celebrate Jesus' resurrection on the first day.

I have posted to 7th day-ers this one...

Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I never seem to get a response to that

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

However, at least the 7th-dayers, as you call them, have returned to more-biblical beliefs on the key ones. If only the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses would, especially on the Trinity and the full deity and humanity of Jesus.

 

[Scott Downey]

Christ rose on the first day of the week, a Sunday morn, the day after the Sabbath.
Crucified on Friday.
Christ's body was in the tomb for the Jewish Sabbath day of rest.

Matthew 28:1

He Is Risen​

Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

 

[Webers_Home]

Christ rose on the first day of the week, a Sunday morn, the day after the Sabbath.
Crucified on Friday.

Your chronology accounts for three days, but it fails to account for the three
nights that Jesus predicted in Matt 12:40.
_

 

[Scott Downey]

Your chronology accounts for three days, but it fails to account for the three
nights that Jesus predicted in Matt 12:40.
_

it is not obvious, but has to do with how the Jews counted nights and days. I read an explanation for it a while ago.

 

[Scott Downey]

Example

One moment, please...

In the Jerusalem Talmud we read,

[Rabbi] Akiba fixed a day for an Onah, and a night for an Onah: but the tradition is, that Rabbi Eliezar Ben Azariah said, . . .”A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole.” . . . [Rabbi] Ismael computeth a part of the Onah for the whole.4

The Onah was a measure of time. The point is clear that the ancient Jewish custom counted any part of a day as the whole day. So Jonah could have been tossed overboard in the late afternoon (first Onah or first day) and been spit out not the next morning (second Onah or second day), but the following morning (third Onah or third day). The expression “three days and three nights” referred to three Onahs since an Onah referred to a part of a day or the full day. That adds up to three days according to ancient Jewish culture. Jesus was in the grave late in the first day and returned to life the second morning. That adds up to three days according to Jewish custom. Both Jonah and Jesus died, were buried (Jesus in a tomb, Jonah in a fish), and came back to life after three days and three nights. Jesus fulfilled the sign of Jonah.

 

[Scott Downey]

The link explains it all well.

Accept the Lord, as in the words of the Lord are a strong tower of safety and truth.

Proverbs 18:10
The name of the Lord is a strong tower; The righteous run to it and are safe.

 

[Webers_Home]

Christ rose on the first day of the week, a Sunday morn, the day after the Sabbath.

Just about everybody is careful to include the routine sabbath in their
chronology, but many fail to take into consideration the Passover sabbath,
which coincides with the first night of the feast of unleavened bread; viz:
lamb night.

* Passover sabbath is interesting. The routine sabbath always falls on the
very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats relative
to the moon; hence it can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week;
sometimes even coincident with the routine sabbath; for example 2018 and
2019, and sometimes consecutive with the routine sabbath; for example
2008.

Passover sabbath easily escapes people's notice so they end up
counting only one of the sabbaths related to Christ's crucifixion and
resurrection. By failing to reckon with the Passover sabbath, they end up
stuck with the Good Friday model; which of course is unworkable because by
no stretch of the imagination can three nights be accounted for in that
weekend seeing as how the Jews' first day of the week falls on Sunday.

(Sorry, but your "Onah" explanation is unacceptable.)

FAQ: Can the hours of darkness on the cross be counted as one of the three
nights Jesus predicted in Matt 12:40?

REPLY: Jesus lived thru those hours. Matt 12:40 required him to be dead and
buried.
_

 

[Scott Downey]

Just about everybody is careful to include the routine sabbath in their
chronology, but many fail to take into consideration the Passover sabbath,
which coincides with the first night of the feast of unleavened bread; viz:
lamb night.

* Passover sabbath is interesting. The routine sabbath always falls on the
very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats relative
to the moon; hence it can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week;
sometimes even coincident with the routine sabbath; for example 2018 and
2019, and sometimes consecutive with the routine sabbath; for example
2008.

Passover sabbath easily escapes people's notice so they end up
counting only one of the sabbaths related to Christ's crucifixion and
resurrection. By failing to reckon with the Passover sabbath, they end up
stuck with the Good Friday model; which of course is unworkable because by
no stretch of the imagination can three nights be accounted for in that
weekend seeing as how the Jews' first day of the week falls on Sunday.

(Sorry, but your "Onah" explanation is unacceptable.)

FAQ: Can the hours of darkness on the cross be counted as one of the three
nights Jesus predicted in Matt 12:40?

REPLY: Jesus lived thru those hours. Matt 12:40 required him to be dead and
buried.
_

Are you a sabbath keeper, not a Sunday church guy?
I am not one of these 7th DAY PEOPLE.

This is what they say .
Crucified on Wednesday, rose on Saturday

The Two Sabbaths of Passover

Tuesday night – Passover Seder (meal), prayer in Gethsemane, arrested,

brought before the Jews

Wednesday morning – before Pilate, on the cross by 9 a.m., dead by 3 p.m.²

Wednesday night – Y’shua in the tomb – first night, High Sabbath begins

Thursday – Y’shua in the tomb – first day, High Sabbath,

Thursday night – Y’shua in the tomb, second night, end of High Sabbath

Friday – Y’shua in the tomb, second day, spices bought & prepared

Friday night – Y’shua in the tomb, third night, weekly Sabbath begins

Saturday – Y’shua in the tomb third day, weekly Sabbath

Saturday Night – Y’shua NOT IN THE TOMB, End of weekly Sabbath

 

[Scott Downey]

At least they agree Sunday is the first day of the week.

Acts 20, the church meets on the first day of the week, and that is when they fellowship and teach.

Ministering at Troas​

7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where [a]they were gathered together. 9 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, “Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him.” 11 Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till daybreak, he departed. 12 And they brought the young man in alive, and they were not a little comforted.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Jesus and his men ate their Passover the night of his arrest.

Matt 26:17-20
Mark 14:12-17
Luke 22:7-15

The Jews ate theirs the following night after he was dead and buried.

John 13:1-2
John 18:28-29
John 19:13-14
John 19:31)

FAQ: The law of the Passover per the 12th chapter of Exodus is very explicit
about the times and circumstances relative to Passover. How was it not
wrong for Jesus to dine early?

REPLY: The Jews were somehow unaware that their liturgical calendar was
tardy the year that Christ was crucified. He, being a prophet in direct contact
with God, would of course known the precise moment that Passover that
year was supposed to begin.

Ironically, the Jews were careful to avoid going after Jesus during Passover.

● Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people
assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and
they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the
feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

Due to their liturgical calendar's error, the Jews were a day late preparing
for dinner and thus inadvertently put Jesus to death during the very season
they wanted to avoid.

The Jews' mistake worked to Jesus' advantage. Had their calendar been
correct, then Jesus would've lost an opportunity to share one last sacred
event with his men; something he really wanted to do.

"Then, at the proper time, Jesus and the twelve apostles sat down together
at the table. Jesus said: I have looked forward to this hour with deep
longing, anxious to eat this Passover meal with you before my suffering
begins." (Luke 22:14-15)
_

 

[ChristinaL]

Your chronology accounts for three days, but it fails to account for the three
nights that Jesus predicted in Matt 12:40.
_

It wasnt three literal complete days and nights. Day 1 - the day Jesus died. Then day 2. Day 3- the day He rose again. Really by the strict number of hours it was likely more like a day and a half

 

[Webers_Home]

It wasnt three literal complete days and nights.

A preponderance of textual evidence testifies that Jesus' crucified dead body
was restored to life during the third day rather than after the third was all
over and done with.

Matt 17:22-23
Matt 20:18-19
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 18:33
Luke 24:5-8
Luke 24:21-23
Luke 24:46
John 2:19
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4

FAQ: What about Matt 27:63 and Mark 8:31? They say "after" the third day
rather than during the third.

REPLY: To begin with, those verses are outnumbered 11÷2.

Plus; the Greek word translated "after" is somewhat ambiguous. It can
indicate moments following the conclusion of an event, but it can also
indicate moments within an event. I suggest letting the 11÷2 majority
decide how best to interpret the intent of Matt 27:63 and Mark 8:31.

FAQ: Luke 24:21-23 says the morning that women came to the cemetery
was the third day. How can that be true when the sun wasn't up yet when
they arrived?

REPLY: This is a mite confusing due to a natural day following close on the
heels of a liturgical day.

Whereas liturgical days were a twenty-four hour amalgam of daytime and
nighttime; natural days consisted of only twelve hours of daytime. (John
11:9-10)

The day preceding the first day of the week was a sabbath (Matt 28:1)
which began at sunset Friday and ended at sunset Saturday. So that in
accord with liturgy the first day of the week began with sunset Saturday,
whereas in accord with nature it began with sunrise Sunday morning.

I can't advise folks how best to untangle the confusion resulting from mixing
and mashing liturgical days with natural days 'cause I can't even do it myself.
It's definitely a bit of a challenge.
_