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I'll leave this discussion off at, Torah observance for Christians wasn't an idea recorded anywhere until the mid 1800s, outside of a few heretical groups in the 2nd and 3rd century. I'm curious, where were all the true believers in that time? People use this logic all the time for things like...

Yeah, you're not longer saved if you lose faith in Christ. Not questioning that. What are you trying to get at here, exactly?

I feel like this is starting to become circular. How do we know we're heading fast enough then? It can't just be "clear" because many people struggle genuinely and others go way past with a breeze. The common conclusion is to "fire and brimstone" or guilt trip the weaker person to just break...

That's not at all where this came from. Plenty of others have this as honest theology and don't beg for money or say blessings will be returned for donation.

No one says don't work towards spiritual maturity and all those fruit. "Clear meaning" or not, is it logical and self consistent is what I'm asking. If you just say this, we can't know if we're saved and be sure of it, as per 1 John 5:13. It just becomes circular at that point if you claim we...

Respectfully, this is kind of a strawman. It is pretty common so I don't blame you. No one says don't do good works or change your sinful behavior(if that's the idea you're getting at). God will make sure there's ample reason to get to that if you don't, take it from someone who suffered greatly...

I never said that. I'm just clearing up the idea that "faith and then prove salvation". I'm sorry if I didn't clarify. Jesus is needed of course.

Isn't that the same problem as before? This isn't about proving salvation in and of itself. It's the implication like I said. How do we know we're actually being trained by God and not just self deceived? I would like an answer if you can give.

And what of knowing you're saved because "your fruit are good enough"? Think about it. Is there a point where we know for sure we're "actually repentant/moving in the right direction" enough? Is not that debate a large part of why we have so many denominations? How do we know our works are good...

Amen. It's through His Grace alone. We can only come to God when He draws us. Praise be to the Father from sending the Holy Spirit to work in us!

People go on debate and go through loops to prove or disprove faith alone for salvation, baptism being needed, or less commonly if turning from sin "in sincere repentance as possible" is needed. Let me (hopefully) shut this down with one verse: Genesis 15:6 "Then he believed in the LORD, and...

What you mean

My point still stands. God isn't the author of confusion after all.

(I should add, there are middle grounds with many things of course, this is just about ideas that actually contradict, and people combine into doctrine, using mental gymnastics and spiritualization to justify.)

Thanks for the tip. I may try it, but just know trying to be present "entirely in the moment" has very eastern roots, Zen stuff iirc

While I appreciate it helps him, with severe OCD sufferers like me, that just makes it stronger. I know trying to correct or push back them only makes it worse too, but deciding to stop and "wait for something" IS giving them attention. I've already tried something similar and...it didn't end...

Having read it, it seems pretty suspicious

First off, I want you all to know I've made great strides in recovering from the OCD madness since last post. But I have a request, both for a prayer and some uplifting in this trying time for me. Is there anything wrong with wanting to overcome these thoughts, because you don't want to have to...

Are you justifying sin by doing this? If this sounds hostile to anyone, I don't mean any of that to whoever reads this. Christians often insist copyright law, even people who agree it's far from clean, must be followed no matter what because the Bible says God wants us to follow the law of the...

I meant I do pray daily, and many times throughout the day typically too. I'm trying to work on prayer life as well.