Who is Nehushtan? Why isn't Christ Nehushtan? Why hasn't your pastor ever so much as mentioned...

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

Nehushtan is--rather strangely, gotta seek it--the name given to the Snake on a Pole the Wanderers had to "look to" when they got snake-bit in the Wilderness--back in Exodus--in order to live. 2 Kings 18:4.

Are you worshipping Nehushtan? Yes, you are prolly worshipping Nehushtan, or did initially. Or at least i have, for most of my "saved" existence.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
Nehushtan is--rather strangely, gotta seek it--the name given to the Snake on a Pole the Wanderers had to "look to" when they got snake-bit in the Wilderness--back in Exodus--in order to live. 2 Kings 18:4.

Are you worshipping Nehushtan? Yes, you are prolly worshipping Nehushtan, or did initially. Or at least i have, for most of my "saved" existence.

Okay, that is what I want to understand...ie Nehushtan worship today.

I just thought Israel kept the brazen serpent like they did the golden calf...and worshipped it. Maybe I would have understood it better if you'd said "people today are still worshipping the golden calf"...
I presume any worship or idol we have outside of The Lord is calf or snake worship?
Is that what you mean?
Sorry for being so clueless here ;)
I'd just never heard the term before.

VictoryinJesus · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
Nehushtan is--rather strangely, gotta seek it--the name given to the Snake on a Pole the Wanderers had to "look to" when they got snake-bit in the Wilderness--back in Exodus--in order to live. 2 Kings 18:4.

Are you worshipping Nehushtan? Yes, you are prolly worshipping Nehushtan, or did initially. Or at least i have, for most of my "saved" existence.

I also am not familiar with "Nehushtan" although you have hinted I may guilty of it, so I would really like to know what it means.

Do you mean worshipping the cross instead of the one that hung on it? or do you mean worshipping Jesus ( God in the flesh) rather than the risen Christ? Or is it something else?

Makes me think of:

Matthew 23:16-19 KJV
[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

... :confused

:

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
I just thought Israel kept the brazen serpent like they did the golden calf...and worshipped it. Maybe I would have understood it better if you'd said "people today are still worshipping the golden calf"

well, they are still doing that too, but that is Mammon i guess, not Nehushtan.

The GC was ground up and consumed, on Moses' orders?

"ByGrace" said:
I presume any worship or idol we have outside of The Lord is calf or snake worship?

oh, surely there are other idols too

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Is that what you mean?
Sorry for being so clueless here ;)
I'd just never heard the term before.

does it not strike you as strange in the least that you have been going to "church" for umpty-ump years, and Christ Himself said that He must be raised up like a snake on a pole, yet you have never heard a sermon on Nehushtan? Nehushtan is hidden from believers, and i am being led to not break this, i'm sorry.

Not meaning to be coy, but see the problem is if i tell you, you will then have my perspective. Google Nehushtan, watch a YT vid on it maybe?, review why the Wanderers had to look to Nehushtan to relieve them of their curse, and let's talk tomorrow. Fwiw i haven't read any Nehushtan links, but then this is a concept that would be hard to misrep imo. Curious to hear your perspective actually

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

VictoryinJesus said:
Do you mean worshipping the cross instead of the one that hung on it?

ha well it is interesting that "Christ is not on the cross anymore" came to me as i was reading your first line, i guess.

VictoryinJesus said:
Do you mean worshipping the cross instead of the one that hung on it? or do you mean worshipping Jesus ( God in the flesh) rather than the risen Christ?

so, yes, this is one valid perspective imo. Two valid perspectives

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

VictoryinJesus said:
Makes me think of:

Matthew 23:16-19 KJV
[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

i don't know why (that would make you think of this) but i take that stuff seriously, and see (vaguely) some parallels, yes.

(No son of man may die for the sins of another)
The person who sins is the one who will die. A son won't suffer punishment for the father's iniquity, and a father won't suffer punishment for the son's iniquity. The righteousness of the righteous person will be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked person will be on him."

is another one

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

another reason i am being inhibited imo is, are you in the Promised Land, or are you in the Wilderness? Metaphorically speaking, of course.

FHII · Nov 21, 2017

I am familiar with the story... God gave it for healing but Israel started worshipping it. Thus, Hoshea had it destroyed. It wasn't given a name initially.

I'm not sure what point you are making, but I would venture to guess its about not worshipping idols or miracles even if they are God given. I'm not going to check the story, but if I remember correctly God wouldn't have had to give it if Israel had their minds set on God to begin with.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
does it not strike you as strange in the least that you have been going to "church" for umpty-ump years, and Christ Himself said that He must be raised up like a snake on a pole, yet you have never heard a sermon on Nehushtan? Nehushtan is hidden from believers, and i am being led to not break this, i'm sorry.

Not meaning to be coy, but see the problem is if i tell you, you will then have my perspective. Google Nehushtan, watch a YT vid on it maybe?, review why the Wanderers had to look to to relieve them of their curse, and let's talk tomorrow. Fwiw i haven't read any Nehushtan links, but then this is a concept that would be hard to misrep imo. Curious to hear your perspective actually

I haven't read any other posts on here yet..will do so after I answer this.

I thought I had check google the first time you mentioned it weeks ago or longer...I didn't find much. I will try again.

I am just confused at the moment by it all. I know that Israel told Aaron to make the golden calf and he did..so that was not God telling them..so I see why that was a sin.
But the brazen serpent God told Moses to make , after He has sent the snakes to bite them...in Numbers 21 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."
As I can se that it was indeed a type of Christ...we were all snake bitten via Adam, and God says to us all "Look at the cross and live"...
All that I can see, but the negative side of the brazen serpent I cannot see.
If indeed the brazen serpent and Nehushtan are one and the same.

I feel like Alice, in Wonderland how has fallen down a hole!!

I will check it out ...after I read the rest of the posts here.

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
we were all snake bitten via Adam

um, i would get more specific here, even if this is true enough in a sense.

"ByGrace" said:
All that I can see, but the negative side of the brazen serpent I cannot see.
If indeed the brazen serpent and Nehushtan are one and the same.

clearly IDed in the kings ref, not mentioned at all in the Exodus ref

"ByGrace" said:
I feel like Alice, in Wonderland how has fallen down a hole!

ha, wait'll you get a sense of truth here. It is hidden for a reason.

manana :)

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2017

doctors have a Caduceus on their lapels, which will mean something diff to you than me perhaps also

amadeus · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
Nehushtan is--rather strangely, gotta seek it--the name given to the Snake on a Pole the Wanderers had to "look to" when they got snake-bit in the Wilderness--back in Exodus--in order to live. 2 Kings 18:4.

Are you worshipping Nehushtan? Yes, you are prolly worshipping Nehushtan, or did initially. Or at least i have, for most of my "saved" existence.

This goes back to the message sent through our brother @mjrhealth . The Nehushtan after it served it's purpose to point people to salvation became the dead un-resurrected body of Jesus on the cross. It is the written scriptures themselves given to people to study and to have them brought to Life within them. We should not worship those dead scriptures any more than we should worship the dead body of Jesus on the cross. We are to worship the risen Living Christ; not the dead book of the Bible. Yes it may contain the dead body of Jesus, but it needs to be quickened and that will never happen while it is simply ink on a page of paper in a book. The quickening should be and must be within the believer. IF we stand only on the book called the Bible we are standing on a foundation of sand. The foundation is Alive. The book is not. The foundation is Jesus. It is not the book.

There are millions of Bibles in the United States alone that remain dead and unopened, but there are probably also millions of people bearing the label of Christian who do not have the Word Alive within them. They are too busy to bother as they believe or at least say they believe that they already have all that they need, when likely most of them have little or nothing at all that is Alive according to the Life that God sent via His Son.

Opening the Bible does NOT bring it to Life. The Holy Spirit brings it to Life within a believer who is also surrendering to the Holy Spirit [the quickening Spirit] within the believer.

Helen · Nov 21, 2017

bbyrd009 said:
doctors have a Caduceus on their lapels, which will mean something diff to you than me perhaps also

Ah...Now I see more where you are coming from.
The sin of the substitute.
The Worshipping the false rather than the true.
Back in the late 80's we read The Confessions of a Medical Hieratic...by
Robert S Mendelsohn. (Robert S. Mendelsohn - Wikipedia ) exposing the priesthood of doctors..( doctor worship)
and the mighty Temples the multi million $ Hospitals that serve as the Temples established in every city. Bowing to Medicine rather the The Healer.
Oh yes, we are well versed in that.

But, they being said as long as someone commits their life and steps to God in faith and trust God for healing , even if the doctor is being used...I see no problem. I am not a legalist. Doctors may think that they are the answer, but healing comes from inside out, not outside in.
In 2 Kings, we see the well known story of Naaman...he'd been healed by dipping 7 times, and was now going back to serve his king.
Naaman said to Elisha " I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth, for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the Lord. 18 In this thing the Lord pardon thy servant, that when my master ( king) goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon thy servant in this thing. 19 And Elisha said unto him, Go in peace. "
God sees hearts. I have a clear conscience when I have to go to hospital.. for I know whom I serve. :)
( and, I don't worship my doctor. lol)

bbyrd009 · Nov 22, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
Ah...Now I see more where you are coming from.
The sin of the substitute.
The Worshipping the false rather than the true.

yes, Crucifix will now be understood here also i guess

bbyrd009 · Nov 22, 2017

"ByGrace" said:
But, they being said as long as someone commits their life and steps to God in faith and trust God for healing , even if the doctor is being used...I see no problem. I am not a legalist. Doctors may think that they are the answer, but healing comes from inside out, not outside in.

well, i am not an 'apologize for good nutrition' kind of guy, and imo Doctors are diametrically opposed to that. but as you have recently pointed out, it is not as black and white as i make it out to be.

bbyrd009 · Jan 10, 2018

see, "turn your eyes upon Jesus" is really bad advice, after a very early point imo. Pluck your eye out if it offends you

bbyrd009 · May 9, 2018

Quetzalcoatl--the Snake on a Pole

usually depicted flying to suggest the transition from earth to heaven; here the hands and feet are bound (nailed)

amadeus · May 9, 2018

I read about Quetzalcoatl during my Spanish studies 50 years ago, but it came back to mind when I studied the doctrines of the Mormons and their book, which my older (carnal) brother, [a Mormon at the time] was kind enough to give me. [Having a "good" Mormon here to tell it might be be helpful if anyone could tolerate it.]

It was only many years later when I read about the snake and Nehushtan in scripture did some of it begin to come together. More recently our brother, bbyrd009, brought it all together here on this forum for me as I had not seen it previously. I would guess that there is still more to come if we are able to bear more than milk. Where is the meat my friends?

Truth · May 9, 2018

I have never heard of this, but as I have read, the thought came to mind! They look to the snake on the pole once for the healing, as also we look to the healing nailed to the tree once, for the healing, after that He is no longer on the tree for us, as to us He Lives.

Who is Nehushtan? Why isn't Christ Nehushtan? Why hasn't your pastor ever so much as mentioned...

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