Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Your fantasies do not defend the Bible. You try to put words in their mouths.
Last edited:
Re: Sexually Immoral
- Thread starter Dash RipRock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Your fantasies do not defend the Bible. You try to put words in their mouths.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
No the scriptures says you cannot have sex with animals. Do you want to?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
If you do not know Ex 20:17 I am not going to look it up.
I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 2nd Samuel 12:8
See I can post the actual scripture. Don't be so lazy.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
people do as people do
and many there be which are indeed blind .
These be the days of great blasphemies and honoring and justifications of sins .
The people have become as Sodom , they no longer even try and hide their sins
they honor them in the streets .
Sodom and gamorra has taken the hearts of this generation to honoring many sins
and hollering judge not to any who dares to expose their sins .
Who holler all day GOD is love but know neither GOD or His love .
The working of wicked men did this whose desire was always for power and control , for money .
And they went to work and produced sucker friendly
which would grow the churches , increasing the income , and always adapting to the changing times .
And sadly many have fallen for it my friend .
Stay in the bible and keep on being refreshed in prayer and in scriptures .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You just brought up a real good reminder my friend .
The scriptures sure do make it real clear no barn yard ceremonies
YET WHY then do the church
turn around and do all to defend GAY MARRIAGE
and say HEY that is all out test , it dont apply .
Claiming JESUS never spoke against it .
WE CANNOT PICK and CHOOSE . WE EXPOSE ALL or we DECIEVE ONLY OURSELVES .
while it is true the specific sin of man with man or man with donkey etc
was not Spoken by JESUS . DO we really THINK and try and tell ourselves That somehow THAT MAKES IT OKAY .
IF SO we are decieving ourselves . I KNOW who spoke such words and I KNOW that HE WONT contradict them .
WE cannot pick and choose . SO all sin , all error , all false doctrine , all wolves MUST be exposed .
Just a friendly reminder to remind us , DONT pick and choose . expose all error and sin .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Many are now under the influence . And though they believe its love
and though they beleive its of GOD ,
FRIEND it is not .
The denominations will merge and christendom itself will merge with all false religons
all beleiving they serve GOD and HIS LOVE .
That delusion cannot be stopped it has come of anti christ and has long been at work
Sadly many within even Christendom are being taken into its web of deciet by means of a love that has come of the world
and twists things . To them it simply is the voice of GOD , to them they simply beleive it is his love
and his plan for unification and world peace . BUT IT IS OF SATAN , HIS WHORE and that which is of anti christ .
ALL whose names are not in the Lambs book of life will bow down and worship its version of love
believing it is of GOD . but IT AINT . its all a delusoin .
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Since no one has attempted to understand why Christ and the Apostles did no attempt to stop polygamy, concubinage, or the second rate status of women I will explain it.
First of all when I say “brain on” it is not saying you do not have brain. It is like saying put on your thinking cap and look at the facts.
I think most will agree that polygamy, concubinage, or the second rate status of women is wrong. Polygamy and concubinage still falls under the category of the 2nd rate status of women. And I think most of us will agree that Yahweh and Yeshua knew that polygamy and concubinage was wrong and hateful from the start.
The reason for the 2nd rate status of women?
Women (Eve) took the blame for the fall of man because she tempted Adam with the fruit…. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 1st Timothy 2:11-15
Now depending on your beliefs Adam and Eve put on clothes and walked out of Eden to a world full of people. If not then we can tell at least that in the storyline the Hebrews were in the minority. So to start with the plan was to out breed the Pagans and war against them to reduce their numbers. “Kill all that breaths” or “kill all that breaths except the virgin females” For example:
Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.Deuteronomy 20:16-18
and
They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp
Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Numbers 31:7-18
Now if you are wondering how they verified which women were virgins on the battlefield? They chest stripped them looking for signs of suckling. Of course this is not an accurate way of verifying virginity. They could take these women as concubines or marry them, willing or not.
The point being, to increasing the numbers of Hebrews/ Israelites/ Jews. But still according to the scholars the Israelites never numbered more than 2% of the populace. So the reason Yahweh condoned polygamy and concubinage was to increase the numbers of Israelites.
Now the customs of the Israelites are not fully explained in the scriptures but a good source for these customs is Hebrew University in Jerusalem of which I attended. But not in Jerusalem, at one time they had an annex called Jewish Studies at American University in Washington DC.
On the topic of weddings, as I have said, that nowhere in the scriptures is there a requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married. At that time the Hebrew language did not have a word for wedding. And also as I have said men took wives by having sex with them. Such the expression “take a wife” This could be as simple as meeting a lady along the road and taking her there or families getting together to celebrate a marriage. The marriage celebration differed from tribe to tribe but it did not involve clergy. The process might include tying a knotted string around their wrists thereby the expression tying the knot. The couple would retire to the “bridle chamber” to consummate the marriage after which the mother would enter the bridle chamber to collect the sheets to prove her daughter’s virginity because if she was not a virgin the husband could execute her and leave her body at her father’s doorstep because the groom had paid the father for a virgin.
All through the Old Testament you can see a prejudice of women. And you can see that it was important to women to have children because that was their way of entering the covenant of God. They did not have a penis to be circumcised so that was their way into the covenant. As Paul said, saved through child bearing.
Polygamy and concubinage was deeply ingrained in the religion and culture of the Israelites. A father could sell his daughter as a concubine, effectively a sex slave. Did God condone polygamy? He included regulations for polygamy and concubinage in the Mosaic Law and took credit for David’s wives. In no way was polygamy or concubinage consider wrong or a sin. In fact it was considered a sign of God’s favor and blessing if a man had a lot of wives and children.
Now men as whole could only feed and house so many wives so as their wives got older and not as sexually viral they would divorce their older wives and take on younger wives. This was particularly cruel because it was more less was a death sentence for divorced wives. At the end of the Old Testament Yahweh states that He hates divorce. A point that Christ reiterates in the New Testament.
We enter the ministry of Christ which occurred still in the time of the Old Covenant and He does not denounce polygamy and concubinage and the first Christians were Jewish-Christians and there was no reason for them to stop practicing polygamy and concubinage and they did not.
Slavery, why didn’t Christ and the Apostles denounce slavery? Because slavery in its various forms were very much a part of the economic structure of the ancient world. So stopping it would have caused chaos, so it just was not time to stop it.
As time went on it is a fact that polygamy and concubinage became less common….why? The Apostle Paul’s ministry to the Pagans, called gentiles in the scriptures occurs. Polygamy and concubinage was not a custom among the Pagans. So Gentile-Christians generally did not practice polygamy and concubinage. This practice became even less common when the Temple was destroyed and the Jewish-Christian sect died out and the Gentile-Christians took the helm of the church. The Jews continued to practice polygamy and concubinage for another thousand years and so did some Christians. Even Martin Luther did not forbid polygamy because he said that it was not forbidden in the scriptures, but polygamy and concubinage was officially outlawed by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent in 1563. So correction of these practices took considerable time.
As it was the Gentile-Christians adopt the Jewish practice of the grooms buying their wives from their father and the fathers having control of who their daughters married. It was around the 12th century that the Catholic Church officially forbid this but it only slowed it down. And in different areas it is still practiced.
In the 16th century the Protestants made a church wedding a requirement to be married and the Catholic Church soon followed their lead, but still up held the 2nd rate status of women. This 2nd rate status of women is at the heart of polygamy and concubinage to begin with. These issues took time to resolve, even today there are a lot of Christians that do not believe in women’s rights, civilly or religiously. Christian equals is the goal, as time goes on there will be more and more female pastors.
First of all when I say “brain on” it is not saying you do not have brain. It is like saying put on your thinking cap and look at the facts.
I think most will agree that polygamy, concubinage, or the second rate status of women is wrong. Polygamy and concubinage still falls under the category of the 2nd rate status of women. And I think most of us will agree that Yahweh and Yeshua knew that polygamy and concubinage was wrong and hateful from the start.
The reason for the 2nd rate status of women?
Women (Eve) took the blame for the fall of man because she tempted Adam with the fruit…. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 1st Timothy 2:11-15
Now depending on your beliefs Adam and Eve put on clothes and walked out of Eden to a world full of people. If not then we can tell at least that in the storyline the Hebrews were in the minority. So to start with the plan was to out breed the Pagans and war against them to reduce their numbers. “Kill all that breaths” or “kill all that breaths except the virgin females” For example:
Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.Deuteronomy 20:16-18
and
They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp
Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Numbers 31:7-18
Now if you are wondering how they verified which women were virgins on the battlefield? They chest stripped them looking for signs of suckling. Of course this is not an accurate way of verifying virginity. They could take these women as concubines or marry them, willing or not.
The point being, to increasing the numbers of Hebrews/ Israelites/ Jews. But still according to the scholars the Israelites never numbered more than 2% of the populace. So the reason Yahweh condoned polygamy and concubinage was to increase the numbers of Israelites.
Now the customs of the Israelites are not fully explained in the scriptures but a good source for these customs is Hebrew University in Jerusalem of which I attended. But not in Jerusalem, at one time they had an annex called Jewish Studies at American University in Washington DC.
On the topic of weddings, as I have said, that nowhere in the scriptures is there a requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married. At that time the Hebrew language did not have a word for wedding. And also as I have said men took wives by having sex with them. Such the expression “take a wife” This could be as simple as meeting a lady along the road and taking her there or families getting together to celebrate a marriage. The marriage celebration differed from tribe to tribe but it did not involve clergy. The process might include tying a knotted string around their wrists thereby the expression tying the knot. The couple would retire to the “bridle chamber” to consummate the marriage after which the mother would enter the bridle chamber to collect the sheets to prove her daughter’s virginity because if she was not a virgin the husband could execute her and leave her body at her father’s doorstep because the groom had paid the father for a virgin.
All through the Old Testament you can see a prejudice of women. And you can see that it was important to women to have children because that was their way of entering the covenant of God. They did not have a penis to be circumcised so that was their way into the covenant. As Paul said, saved through child bearing.
Polygamy and concubinage was deeply ingrained in the religion and culture of the Israelites. A father could sell his daughter as a concubine, effectively a sex slave. Did God condone polygamy? He included regulations for polygamy and concubinage in the Mosaic Law and took credit for David’s wives. In no way was polygamy or concubinage consider wrong or a sin. In fact it was considered a sign of God’s favor and blessing if a man had a lot of wives and children.
Now men as whole could only feed and house so many wives so as their wives got older and not as sexually viral they would divorce their older wives and take on younger wives. This was particularly cruel because it was more less was a death sentence for divorced wives. At the end of the Old Testament Yahweh states that He hates divorce. A point that Christ reiterates in the New Testament.
We enter the ministry of Christ which occurred still in the time of the Old Covenant and He does not denounce polygamy and concubinage and the first Christians were Jewish-Christians and there was no reason for them to stop practicing polygamy and concubinage and they did not.
Slavery, why didn’t Christ and the Apostles denounce slavery? Because slavery in its various forms were very much a part of the economic structure of the ancient world. So stopping it would have caused chaos, so it just was not time to stop it.
As time went on it is a fact that polygamy and concubinage became less common….why? The Apostle Paul’s ministry to the Pagans, called gentiles in the scriptures occurs. Polygamy and concubinage was not a custom among the Pagans. So Gentile-Christians generally did not practice polygamy and concubinage. This practice became even less common when the Temple was destroyed and the Jewish-Christian sect died out and the Gentile-Christians took the helm of the church. The Jews continued to practice polygamy and concubinage for another thousand years and so did some Christians. Even Martin Luther did not forbid polygamy because he said that it was not forbidden in the scriptures, but polygamy and concubinage was officially outlawed by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent in 1563. So correction of these practices took considerable time.
As it was the Gentile-Christians adopt the Jewish practice of the grooms buying their wives from their father and the fathers having control of who their daughters married. It was around the 12th century that the Catholic Church officially forbid this but it only slowed it down. And in different areas it is still practiced.
In the 16th century the Protestants made a church wedding a requirement to be married and the Catholic Church soon followed their lead, but still up held the 2nd rate status of women. This 2nd rate status of women is at the heart of polygamy and concubinage to begin with. These issues took time to resolve, even today there are a lot of Christians that do not believe in women’s rights, civilly or religiously. Christian equals is the goal, as time goes on there will be more and more female pastors.
Last edited:
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
When someone spends 10 paragraphs defending polygamy, sex slavery, and ancient patriarchy—and then tries to blame Jesus for not stopping it—you’re not hearing the Gospel. You’re watching a Pharisee cosplay as a scholar.
This is the same energy Jesus roasted in Matthew 23: blind guides straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel, all while acting like their robes make them righteous.
Christ didn’t come to coddle sin, he came to call it out, flip tables, and shut mouths. So if you’re using historical trivia to justify spiritual depravity, congratulations — you’ve become exactly what Jesus rebuked the loudest: a whitewashed tomb with footnotes.
You want truth? Here it is:
The Gospel doesn’t glorify cultural sin. It buries it at the foot of the cross.
Repent — or stop misusing His name to defend a gospel so counterfeit, even the Pharisees wouldn’t cash it.
This is the same energy Jesus roasted in Matthew 23: blind guides straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel, all while acting like their robes make them righteous.
Christ didn’t come to coddle sin, he came to call it out, flip tables, and shut mouths. So if you’re using historical trivia to justify spiritual depravity, congratulations — you’ve become exactly what Jesus rebuked the loudest: a whitewashed tomb with footnotes.
You want truth? Here it is:
The Gospel doesn’t glorify cultural sin. It buries it at the foot of the cross.
Repent — or stop misusing His name to defend a gospel so counterfeit, even the Pharisees wouldn’t cash it.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Not defending polygamy and concubinage just stating the scriptures and the facts. If you like a religion of fantasy that is your business.
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
It’s like saying that because Jesus didn’t directly say “don’t sacrifice children,” then child sacrifice must still be okay since it’s in the Old Testament. That’s the exact same warped logic being used here — twisting silence into permission and dragging Old Covenant sin into the New, as if the cross didn’t change everything.
But Jesus didn’t need to restate what the Father already called abominable — He came to fulfill the Law, not reprint it. And when He warned that harming a child warrants drowning with a millstone, He said more than enough.
The fact that you’re trying to advise other Christians with this kind of logic isn’t just wrong — it’s terrifying.
But Jesus didn’t need to restate what the Father already called abominable — He came to fulfill the Law, not reprint it. And when He warned that harming a child warrants drowning with a millstone, He said more than enough.
The fact that you’re trying to advise other Christians with this kind of logic isn’t just wrong — it’s terrifying.
Last edited:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
LOL Sacrificing Children is not in the Mosaic Law.
Preaching false beliefs and putting words in God, is that a sin?
By your logic we do not have to worry about what the scriptures say you just make it up as you go.
Last edited:
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
You twist Scripture, mock judgment, and act like God’s silence means approval. Do you even think before you speak — or just hope no one notices how empty your theology is?
Any true Christian grounded in the Gospel is reading your replies thinking, “What on earth is this guy even talking about?” It’s like watching someone throw Scripture into a blender and call it theology.
“You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.” – Matthew 22:29
This isn’t revelation. It’s confusion in religious robes.
Repent — or step away from the mic before you lead someone else off the cliff with you.
Any true Christian grounded in the Gospel is reading your replies thinking, “What on earth is this guy even talking about?” It’s like watching someone throw Scripture into a blender and call it theology.
“You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.” – Matthew 22:29
This isn’t revelation. It’s confusion in religious robes.
Repent — or step away from the mic before you lead someone else off the cliff with you.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Mocking God is you trying to sell lies to Christians....the work of the devil.
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
When someone hears the Word of God rightly handled and calls it “the work of the devil,” they’re not just confused — they’re in deep spiritual danger.
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil…” — Isaiah 5:20
You’re not mocking me, you’re mocking the Gospel. And Heaven takes note.
The level of projection here is unreal. Twist Scripture, get rebuked, then call the truth satanic? That’s not discernment — that’s exactly what the Pharisees did when the truth exposed their pride.
At this point, it’s clear you’re not seeking the truth or honoring the Gospel — just trying to win the argument, no matter the cost.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You truel
You truly have nothing to support your fantasies on these topics. Fun to watch you chase your tail. Where as I have provided scriptures and history. So you are wasting my time so good-bye.
The Gospel of Christ
Active Member
When someone twists Scripture, calls the truth satanic, and then claims you’re the one chasing your tail, that’s not theology — it’s projection wrapped in pride.
He can walk away, but the record stands:
I quoted the Word.
He dodged it.
And now he’s running.
“Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?” — Galatians 4:16
He can walk away, but the record stands:
I quoted the Word.
He dodged it.
And now he’s running.
“Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?” — Galatians 4:16
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
No you have nothing. You could not find a scripture against polygamy and concubines. You keep trying to put words in God's mouth. What you believe is not in the scriptures.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The phrase a second rate status
Cometh of a highly progressive liberal realm .
When i seen them words you typed i knew we had us a problem already .
For years and decades they have taught such things unto the church .
And it sure has infiltraed much of the evangelical realm too .
Second rate status of women , whats next an attack upon the patiarchal system too .
I know what they did to these churches my friend . They was very very sneaky too .
We ought never to have fallen for such a thing .
They used the phrase times were different back then
BUT that sure aint what paul or peter said . THEY used scrips to back up the WHY they did as they did .
But men said OH IT WAS CAUSE TIMES were different back then and they were preaching according to the times .
NO sir and no mams . BOTH men used scripture resources to back up why they did as they did .
That was a friendly but necessary reminder for us all to simply return to the bible to learn the scrips for ourselves .
AND DO beware of men who say things like , YE simply cannot learn it without ...................................
WE HAS THE LORD . THE SCRIPS HE INSPIRED , HIS SPIRIT can reveal the understanding . AINT too hard for GOD
to reveal . its men you gotta beware of ...................
Last edited:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, this couple is not necessarily engaged in sexual sin if they have stated their intention to consider themselves married before witnesses and are keeping themselves only to themselves. But it does seem to me that they are sinning ethically since they are hiding their marriage from the governing authorities in order to receive money from the government under false pretences. They also might be in violation of other laws surrounding marriage, if marriage must legally be licensed and registered with the state etc, as well as there might be tax and other implications. They are also not abiding by biblical instruction to avoid every appearance of evil if they aren't legally married. What they are doing is not above board.
