If you’re a Christian and you support the modern geopolitical state of Israel, you deny that Christ is the Messiah. It's that simple.

Wick Stick said:

This reply wasn't for me, so forgive me for butting in...

I don't see that God changed His mind at all. In Genesis, when God made His covenant with Abraham, He promised to give Abraham both a natural son AND to make him a "Father of Nations." That word "nations" is usually translated as Gentiles.

Salvation was always intended for Abraham's sons, both the natural and the adopted.

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I understand these things. I'm referring to the land promises given to Jacob, and God's promises to Jacob's children. Also to God's promises of restoration and return that were likewise given to the children of Jacob.

Much love!

The Gospel of Christ said:

But He didn’t say it in Scofield’s voice

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For the umpteenth time . . . I'm not Scofield, I don't use his notes, etc etc.

Anyway, I've said what I've wanted to.

Much love!

The Gospel of Christ said:

The problem is, you don’t know what He meant — because you’ve been trained to read every prophecy through the lens of dispensationalist fantasy novels instead of the words of Jesus and the apostles.
That’s not faith. That’s fiction.

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Pure projection. That's fiction.

There are essentially two kinds of Bible readers. Those who take a literalist approach, also known as the historical grammatical approach, that is to say, what the words meant when they were written, and those to take a more allegorical or metaphorical approach, that we need to determine what the real spiritual meaning is that is hidden under these words.

And the two will not agree, because one is going by what is written, and the other is not, and is instead determining new meanings not written.

So you tell me which is fiction.

Much love!

marks said:

I'm referring to the land promises given to Jacob, and God's promises to his children. Also to God's promises of restoration and return that were likewise given to the children of Jacob.

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All of those promises are contingent on obedience. Israel has never in all it's history held ALL the territory promised to it, which would include all of Lebanon, half of Syria, and part of Turkey using today's borders.

However, modern Israel does include some territory that was NOT promised to it - ancestral lands given to the Edomites, Philistines, and Egyptians.

Lizbeth said:

Amen. We sure do need to discern between "Israel after the flesh" and the "Israel of God".

But I think one would have to be hard-hearted and unmerciful to be against them returning to the land of Israel after the horrors of the holocaust. The Lord is the one who raises and lowers kings and kingdoms in His sovereignty. I think their return has been prophesied, just that we must not assume it is all for good. It's "good" for the Jews to have a measure of safety and security in this world, while it lasts, and if they can obtain it, but if the Antichrist false messiah comes to reign from a newly re-built Temple, that would not be good, but hugely deceptive and evil. That's why it's so important not to idolize the Jews/Israel, because it can lead to following them in their error. We must not be unequally yoked with them....they are lost souls/unbelievers. Jesus said if ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either.

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Whether or not the temple is rebuilt .........
that which is of anti christ is already at work
and both the massive amount of gentiles , YES EVEN CHRISTENDOM , and the massive amount of jews who follow not CHRIST
are already , in some measure UNDER ITS INFLUENCE .
and that influence IS GROWING both in numbers and IN DARKNESS .
You would be amazed at how new age inclusive even the tamlud and secular jews ALREADY ARE
AND EVEN MANY within christendom itself sister .
I have noticed THE ONE THING they all have in common
its a form of a love and that love is having them find common ground to be as one people on mutter earth .
What a lot of folks dont realize is
The natural jews are as wicked as is the rest of the lost world and its nations .
THEY love abominations and hate GOD as much as anyone else who is lost .
A UNIFYER HAS COME . and its NO UNIFYING spirit , or love , THAT ANYONE should ever have desired to sit under .
But sister , I CANNOT STOP IT . the more i warn , IT JUST KEEPS INCREASING .
I already knew i never could stop it sister . But i did what i did for the sakes of the people anyway . AT least some heard .
maybe more will . But we just in the very last days now sister and times will continue to get more deceptive and far worse .

marks said:

So your answer to all these prophecies is, wait for it, God didn't really mean the words He said.

I'm not buying it. This is just one more person telling me, Yeah, it says that, but it doesn't mean that. Well, the fact is, God means what He says, whether or not you accept that.

I don't need long explanations, I only need to quote the Bible, it says what it says.

Much love!

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my answer to prophecies is THIS
STOP beleiving what men have long taught
and rather LET US GET IN THE BIBLE for ourselves , SO THINGS CAN BE cleared up .
ITS a madhouse mark . A total madhouse of insanity that just keeps getting worse .
People trusting in scholars and wise sounding men
THE SOLUTION IS SIMPLE . START OVER IN THE BIBLE and learn FOR ONESELF .

Taken said:

If you’re a Christian and you support the modern geopolitical state of Israel, you deny that Christ is the Messiah. It's that simple.​

Ignorancee and I Disagree.

ISRAELS Blindness IS TEMPORARY, and WAS established BY God, to fulfill His Purpose, regarding Gentiles.

God has revealed His Order, Way, Intent To and When God Lifts ISRAELS Blindness.

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Taken,
Your premise of Israel salvation is correct, but your timing of postponement into our future the recovery from their blindness is incorrectly misunderstanding the scriptures you posted to do that postponement.

Peter clear told us when all the house of Israel could be saved, and that open-door began for them in the 1st century, and has continued throughout every generation.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”
Acts 2:36-40


No postponement….
Complete salvation by Jesus’ blood for all the house of Israel and their children from that generation of Pentecost onward!!!

The Gospel of Christ said:

that you believe Jesus is the Messiah and that political Zionism is good. But that’s a contradiction, not a balance.

Why? Because you're blessing a modern political state that explicitly rejects the very Messiah you claim is Lord.

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It's not a contradiction. One thing has nothing to do with another thing. I can respect the life of another person even if I don't agree with everything they do and say.

The Gospel of Christ said:

Yes, there is a modern nation-state called Israel, and no one is denying its political existence.

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If this were true, there would be peace in the Middle East.

DavidTaylor said:

Taken,
Your premise of Israel salvation is correct, but your timing of postponement into our future the recovery from their blindness is incorrectly misunderstanding the scriptures you posted to do that postponement.

Peter clear told us when all the house of Israel could be saved, and that open-door began for them in the 1st century, and has continued throughout every generation.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.”
Acts 2:36-40


No postponement….
Complete salvation by Jesus’ blood for all the house of Israel and their children from that generation of Pentecost onward!!!

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Considering…
*) Souls Are Saved…by God, by Jesus.
*) Souls Are “Justified”: (TO BE Saved) By, through, of a mans “Heartful Belief”, IN God and or IN Jesus IS the Christ or both.
*) A mans Soul “literally” MADE “Saved” occurs “After” a Bodily Death.
*) Salvation, given a mans soul, Anciently, Historically, Presently, Future (during: Seals, Trumps) will require A physically Bodily Death….IF they Die Believing IN God, IN Jesus.
*) Historically, (for 2,000 + years), Soul Salvation has been Offered to ManKIND, “before physical death”. Their Own WORD confession of Heartful Belief, (and) VOW, to give their Body unto ONLY the Lord God…
(Even can participate in a ceremony, water dip, “called Water Baptism”, a sort of “visual for Other natural men to Witness”, an “unseen promise of that individual having promised their body unto death For the Lord God’s authority to Take that Body.
*) Called: Crucified with Christ
(And yet, that their body is still living, they are Accounted Bodily Dead, and they “Living” IN Jesus” Risen Body.
*) They called”IN Christ”.
*) And Gods Spirit, thereafter IS Dwelling “IN” that Person.
*) They called…Whole (body, soul, spirit)
*) They called…Christs Church members.
*) They called…Bride of Christ.

It is “primarily” Gentiles, who Have freely chosen to Take “THAT” Offering God “Offered” some 2,000+ years Ago.

ISRAEL (all tribes) were offered the Same Offering “First”, OF God, by, through, of Jesus. Some Accepted, Some Rejected.
Especially After the Deaths of the Apostles, Many (ISRAEL) in the Synagogue's were pressured to Reject.

While Jesus “Fulfilled” OT and Israel’s Mosaic Law…men (ISRAEL) Have FREEWILL to believe it or Not.
They can Continue Believing, Following, Promoting, Obeying, OT Mosaic Law (with a huge dilemma)…they have no Temple, that their Law requires yearly animal Sacrifices, in the Temple, a Sin Offering, to receive Forgiveness.

They do not accept, Jesus’, the Lamb of Gods’, blood offering for Forgiveness.
(Well, majority, because Some do, not calling themselves Christians, rather Masonic Jews.)

Point…
Christs’ Works to Save a mans soul, is Before a mans “physical” bodily Death.
Gods Works to Save a mans soul, is After a physical Death.

Christ’s Raising up of a mens “new” body’s, is Before Gods End days Tribulations sent down from Heaven. (Rapture)
Applies ONLY to those “IN” Christ.
God Searched their Heart that their confession was True.

God’s Raising up of men’s “new” body’s, is After Gods End days Tribulations sent down from Heaven. (First Resurrection)
Applies ONLY to those who Believe ”IN” Jesus…
(But never MADE their Heartful Confession before Bodily Death)
God, Searches their Heart, for their Truth.

It is During the last Days Trib., that God Has Prepared…
a Place, (Jerusalem / also Mt ZION).
Preachers, (with great powers).
Kinsmen of Every Tribe to Teach in JEWS Ears…
The Gospel of Jesus….that fulfills Gods Promise to them.

For centuries Jews have been blinded…as Gentiles were entering into Belief.

The Jews Do not broadly have that blindness lifted until during the last days Trib

Glory to God,
Taken

The Gospel of Christ said:

Everything in this thread is backed by Scripture — straight from the Gospel.
If you want to challenge it, you’ll first have to answer one question:

Who is Israel?
Because it’s not a bloodline.
It’s not a border.
And it’s not a nation on a map.

According to Jesus Christ Himself —
Israel is found in Him,
not in the land,
not in the flesh,
and not in those who reject the Son of God.

You're missing the point — and proving it in real time.

No one here is denying that Jesus was born into a Jewish lineage. He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, the fulfillment of every promise. But He didn’t come to eternally affirm a physical bloodline. He came to fulfill the law, establish the New Covenant in His blood, and redefine Israel around Himself — not ethnicity, not geography.

You say we’re “extricating” Israel from Jesus. But what we’re actually doing is centering Israel on Christ, where Scripture puts it.

If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise — Galatians 3:29
Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel — Romans 9:6
He has made the first covenant obsolete — Hebrews 8:13
There is neither Jew nor Gentile... for you are all one in Christ Jesus — Galatians 3:28

You’re clinging to a definition of Israel based on flesh, when the New Testament consistently defines it in Spirit, through Christ. That’s not replacement. That’s fulfillment. That’s what Jesus meant when He said, “This is My blood of the new covenant.”

And respectfully — dismissing Scofield as "gobbledygook" is not an argument. It’s a refusal to acknowledge the theological system that shaped your worldview — whether you realize it or not. We are discussing Scripture. You just don’t like what the Scriptures say when read without the filter of Dispensationalism.

If Jesus is the center of all covenant fulfillment, then the real question isn’t whether we’re removing Jews from the equation. The question is whether you’re removing Jesus from the definition of Israel.

Because if He is not the definition, then you’ve just separated the Messiah from the people He came to save.


It’s not about ancestry.
It’s not about land.
It’s about Him.

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Actually,the onus is on you to prove your point. This far,it is my view you've not done so.

Wick Stick said:

All of those promises are contingent on obedience.

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Actually that's only true to a point. God also made promises that were not dependent on them or their obedience, such as in Jeremiah 31, where He specifically says that if you can search out the center of the earth, and if you can measure the span of the heavens, so will God cast out Israel for all they have done.

So the clear message is, you cannot visit the heart of the earth, and you cannot put a tape measure across the sky, and God won't cast out Israel because of what they've done, that is, disobey, that is, period. No limit to their disobedience, God still chose them, and God will do as He's promised, regather them, save them, live with them.

Like the original land promise to Jacob, purely one sided covenant made by God. No requirements on Jacob. Whether they stayed in the land, that's based on obedience. And the punishments had a duration, specified between Ezekiel and Jeremiah and Leviticus, and those punishments were completed, leading them to self rule in 1948, though still awaiting fulfillment of God's promise to restore them.

Much love!

The Gospel of Christ said:

You’ve been handed the words of Jesus, Paul, and the apostles — and your answer is still, “Nope, I think Dispensationalism says otherwise.” That’s not faith. That’s delusion.

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Having mischaracterized me here . . . well, let's use the simpler word having lied about me here, it tells me about you.

Not interested.

Much love!

The Gospel of Christ said:

Actually, I’ve quoted nothing but Scripture — straight from the New Testament, chapter and verse. You just didn’t respond to a single one of them.

Galatians 3:29 – If you are in Christ, you are Abraham’s seed.
Romans 9:6 – Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.
Hebrews 8:13 – The first covenant is obsolete.
Galatians 3:28 – There is neither Jew nor Gentile... you are all one in Christ.

These aren’t commentaries. These are apostolic teachings about the New Covenant and the identity of God's people in Christ. You don’t get to wave them off because they don’t align with your prophecy charts.

So no — the burden of proof isn’t on me. I’ve laid out the text. The burden is on you to explain how your view holds up without ignoring what Paul, Hebrews, and Jesus Himself clearly said.

This isn’t about personal opinion. This is about whether or not we let Christ define Israel, or keep clinging to a definition based in flesh and geography — the very thing the New Testament says does not define God’s people anymore.

You’ve got the verses. You’ve got the context. You just haven’t dealt with them. Until you do, you're not defending Scripture — you're dodging it.

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No. You're pushing Replacement Theology. You're couching it in failed efforts to validate your agenda using abrogated scripture.

Possibly because,and I don't know if this is a rule here, Replacement Theology is not permitted to be promoted.

The mask of spiritual Israel is a well known tactic by proponents of RT.

Sure,you've voted scripture. You've abrogated it. There's a difference.

The Gospel of Christ said:

Let me be very clear — I’m not “abrogating” anything. I’m quoting the New Testament directly. You’re calling verses from Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews abrogated because they don’t fit into your theological framework.

That’s not discernment — that’s rejection.

You’ve decided in advance that these verses must be wrong or “spiritually masked” because they dismantle the Scofield system. But Scripture doesn’t need your permission to contradict Dispensationalism.

I’m not promoting “Replacement Theology.” I’m promoting fulfillment theology — straight from Paul, the apostles, and Jesus Himself. The New Covenant doesn’t replace Israel. It redefines it around Christ — just as Scripture says.

Paul didn’t say we replace anyone. He said that in Christ, the dividing wall is gone (Eph. 2:14), the old covenant is obsolete (Heb. 8:13), and all who are in Christ are Abraham’s seed (Gal. 3:29). That’s not a “mask.” That’s the entire message of the Gospel.

You keep saying these truths are “not allowed.” My question is: Not allowed by who — the moderators, or Scofield’s ghost?

Because unless someone here is rewriting the New Testament, the only thing being “abrogated” is the authority of Scripture — by you, every time you wave it away as “spiritual tactics.”

I’m here quoting Christ and the apostles. You’re here declaring their words void. One of us is standing on the Word. The other is standing on a study note.

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That's correct. Your abrogation is rejection of scripture.

And let me be clear again this one last time.

The Scofield slur you inject is,quite frankly,stupid.
And evidence of lack of an education in Exegesis. And, all other studies related to Christian Theology.
You are of mal intent in this community. Your screen name doesn't give you credibility . It simply shows you have no shame.

And God sees this.
Goodbye.

soberxp said:

The narrow gate is the word of God.

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My bible is the narrow gate?