Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh nature?

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Aunty Jane

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He picked up where man was at the time of His birth, not at the time of Adam, and He was not impeccable or it all would have been a charade. Physically, Christ was like us, under the weight of the generations of damaged humanity and its state of being at that time under sin, and under the consequences of aging. But morally, Christ could be tested by temptation as scripture shows us, but Christ using the same power we have available to us today, resisted and kept from and did not have our ungodly desires or sinful inclinations.
If you hold the view that Christ was “like us, under the weight of generations of damaged humanity”, you have completely missed the reason why he is called our “Redeemer”…and why he is also called “ the last Adam”.

What did the first Adam lose that the “last Adam” reclaimed for his children?

Being born with undamaged human DNA, Jesus Christ was not related genetically to Adam at all.
He had no human Father, and his mother was the vessel used to bring about his birth as a human. But his DNA was not the damaged DNA that Adam’s children inherited….he had to be the equivalent of what Adam was before he sinned and sentenced us all to death. This is how redemption works…..the price to be paid was set in God’s law….”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”.
The life Adam lost was sinless perfection, so a perfect sinless life was to be offered to buy back what Adam lost, not for himself, but for all who would descend from him. Jesus was not a descendant.

If a flawed human was all that was needed to redeem mankind, then anyone could have volunteered to pay the ransom and free doomed humanity….but no one born on this earth was sinless. The price of redemption had to come from outside the now flawed human race.

Why else would Jesus need to come from heaven to become a human and offer his life for ours?
The Bible clearly teaches that Christ was tempted just as other men are tempted, He "was in all points tempted like as we are." Such temptation must necessarily include the possibility of sinning; but Christ was without sin.
Yes, the devil and Adam and his wife were all tempted, but in different ways. Without free will, there could be no temptation.
The devil‘s temptation came from with within himself, following the chain reaction of the steps leading to sin that James speaks about…
James 1:13-15…
”When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14  But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.”

This is free will….the ability to choose our actions from within ourselves….for good or bad. We must weigh the outcome before we take the action….this is what being made in God’s image means….our intellect allows us alone, of all God’s creatures, to imagine the future outcome of our actions. We have a concept of past, present and future, something no other earthly creatures have. All others operate by instinct….a programmed response to the events of the here and now.
There is no Bible support for the teaching that the mother of Christ, by an immaculate conception, was cut off from the sinful inheritance of the race, and therefore her divine Son, Christ was incapable of sinning. He came as man was at that time and overcame as see "yet without sin." So He could save us, it was never a charade...
Jesus was born without sin because he was not from this world. (John 6:62; John 8:23)
Jesus’ faithful course proved that the three rebels at the beginning could have refrained from sin as well….
There was no sin nature to interfere with their choices either.

The devil made a conscious decision to act in direct disobedience to his Creator. He wanted worship and these new creatures could give it to him….but first he had to separate them from their God in order to replace him. He then became “the god of this world”. (2 Cor 4:4) Yahweh would allow them all to see first hand, what their disobedience would lead to. They couldn’t be told…they had to be shown.

Tempting the woman, the devil lied to her about the penalty if she ate the fruit, by simply stating “you surely will not die”….in her ignorance she was deceived, because it sounded like benefits would come from eating the fruit……but Adam wasn’t deceived. (1 Tim 2:14) He ate the fruit for a totally different reason….he had waited a long time for a mate of his own, and now he was forced to choose between obedience to his God and losing her, or disobeying his God and joining her, thereby sentencing themselves, and all their future children to death.

The fate of the entire human race rested with Adam, not the woman. (Rom 5:12) If Adam had made a different decision, he could have changed the whole course of human history.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Being born with undamaged human DNA, Jesus Christ was not related genetically to Adam at all.
Jesus was a descendant of Adam through his mother Mary, and as such he partook of the fallen nature of Adam. He came to overcome all aspects of sin including the lusts of the flesh. He is our representative, not our substitute.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,

Jesus was a descendant of Adam through his mother Mary, and as such he partook of the fallen nature of Adam. He came to overcome all aspects of sin including the lusts of the flesh. He is our representative, not our substitute.
That disagrees with the whole concept of redemption.

Jesus had to offer the same life that Adam lost in order to restore what Adam took away from his children.

Redemption had a price…and a fallen nature was NOT the price Jesus paid…..it was a perfect sinless life given in exchange for a perfect sinless life forfeited. The scales of justice had to be balanced. That is what atonement is…..”at-one-ment”….one for one.

An imperfect life could not pay for a perfect one. All the sacrifices in Israel had to be perfect, unblemished specimens, otherwise it was unacceptable to God….this is the model for Jesus sacrifice.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus had to offer the same life that Adam lost in order to restore what Adam took away from his children.
The logic of this may appear valid on the surface, but it is not what is taught in the Scriptures. Christ is our representative, not our substitute. He came to overcome sin and all its effects and we share in his victory when we believe and become identified with his death and resurrection by baptism in water.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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The logic of this may appear valid on the surface, but it is not what is taught in the Scriptures. Christ is our representative, not our substitute. He came to overcome sin and all its effects and we share in his victory when we believe and become identified with his death and resurrection by baptism in water.
Jesus is called a “redeemer” in the Bible….he is not called our representative…..he is his Father’s representative.
A Redeemer must pay back what is owing on a debt. The payment was set when the debt was incurred. One for one….”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”…that is God’s law……so an imperfect life is unacceptable to God as a sacrifice, because the sacrifice had to be without defect….to picture Christ’s perfect body of flesh and blood….the exact equivalent of what Adam was before his defection, and he lost all that for his children….Christ came to “buy” it back…..it was a transaction where the goods and the payment were of equal value.

Jesus was a descendant of Adam through his mother Mary, and as such he partook of the fallen nature of Adam.
Mary was implanted with an embryo that had none of her DNA….Jesus said he was “not from this world”…did he lie? He could not be of anyone’s “fallen nature” because that would have invalidated his sacrifice.


Our baptism as Christians is a public declaration that we have accepted Christ as our savior, and have promised God to do all in our power to imitate our Master.….to follow his teachings, and to stick to the truth of God’s word as he did. We have to be able to understand the commitment before we make it.

Im afraid that your argument is not supported by Scripture.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Jesus came in the same flesh as us.
No, he did not, otherwise he could not have paid the ransom demanded for the price of redemption.
Why did Jesus need to come from outside the flawed human race to provide the price of redemption?
Mary was the mother of Jesus, not a surrogate.
Mary was, for all intents and purposes, the woman who gave birth to him…in those days, no one knew about fetal implantation, God implanted the embryo in Mary’s womb, but the child was God’s son. He was not related to her genetically, otherwise her imperfection would have been half of his DNA...still flawed.

In order to be the sacrificial “lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”, Jesus had to pay back what Adam lost for all his children……you don’t seem to understand the principles of redemption.

Christ’s sacrifice is also called a “ransom”….so if you understand what a ransom is, it is the price paid to free someone held captive. Are Adam’s children held captive to sin and death? What was the price demanded for their release? The equivalent of what Adam lost.

It is not more complicated than that.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
God implanted the embryo in Mary’s womb, but the child was God’s son. He was not related to her genetically, otherwise her imperfection would have been half of his DNA...still flawed.
I disagree with your and I assume JW theology on two counts. Firstly Mary and Jesus were direct descendants of David:

Luke 1:26–35 (KJV): 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

That Jesus was a direct descendant of David is also stated in the following:
Romans 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

It is also taught in the following:
Acts 2:25–32 (KJV): 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

The second disagreement with your and JW theology is that this reference has the added feature denied by JWs, that it is the flesh of Jesus, descended from David, that is raised from the dead to sit on David's Throne. This is still flesh, but no longer mortal, but it is changed from mortality to immortality.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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Firstly Mary and Jesus were direct descendants of David:
Jesus actually had this conversation with the Pharisees…..
Matt 22:41-45…
”And while the Pharisees were gathered Jesus put the question to them 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? whose son is he to be?” They said to him “David’s.” 43 He said to them “How is it then that David in the Spirit calls him lord, in the words 44 ‘The Lord said to my lord “Sit at my right hand till I put your enemies underneath your feet”’? 45 if then David calls him lord, how is he to be his son?” 46 And nobody could give him any answer, and from that day on no one any longer dared to put any question to him.”

Jesus was quoting Psalm 110:1-2. So how is David’s “lord” also his son? Can you give an answer that the Pharisees could not?

That Jesus was a direct descendant of David is also stated in the following:
Yes, it was assumed by all that Mary was his mother in the earthly sense, but Jesus came through Mary, not from her. For all intents a purposes, Jesus’ identity as the son of Mary and Joseph did not take into account who he was before his human birth.
It is also taught in the following:
Acts 2:25–32
Again the assumption was that he was the son of Joseph and Mary and as such fulfilled the prophesy.
Both Joseph and Mary belong to the tribe of Judah, and are both descendants of King David. So the heirship rights of Jesus would be doubly established.
The second disagreement with your and JW theology is that this reference has the added feature denied by JWs, that it is the flesh of Jesus, descended from David, that is raised from the dead to sit on David's Throne. This is still flesh, but no longer mortal, but it is changed from mortality to immortality.
Since Jesus had to return to heaven to present the value of his sacrificial blood to his God and Father, it would be impossible for Jesus to be raised in a fleshly body….

Hebrews 9:24…
”For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf.”

1 Cor 15:50…”But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom“….

Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm. Humans are confined to the earth, where the life support they need to live and breathe is abundantly supplied. Spirits live in heaven….fleshly creatures live on earth.
No creature of flesh and blood can go to heaven. They must be transformed into spirit beings. What is mortal puts on immortality…..for the chosen ones.

Jesus was a spirit who became a human to sacrifice his life for us….he returned to his Father in spirit form and will rule from heaven with his elect over earthly subjects.
That is what the scriptures teach. That is what I believe…
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus actually had this conversation with the Pharisees…..
Matt 22:41-45…”And while the Pharisees were gathered Jesus put the question to them 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? whose son is he to be?” They said to him “David’s.” 43 He said to them “How is it then that David in the Spirit calls him lord, in the words 44 ‘The Lord said to my lord “Sit at my right hand till I put your enemies underneath your feet”’? 45 if then David calls him lord, how is he to be his son?” 46 And nobody could give him any answer, and from that day on no one any longer dared to put any question to him.”
Jesus was quoting Psalm 110:1-2. So how is David’s “lord” also his son? Can you give an answer that the Pharisees could not?
Jesus was a descendant of David through Mary his mother, but Jesus had a higher status as God the Father was his father through rhe power of the Holy Spirit, and as such he was The Son of God Luke 1:34-35.
Yes, it was assumed by all that Mary was his mother in the earthly sense, but Jesus came through Mary, not from her. For all intents a purposes, Jesus’ identity as the son of Mary and Joseph did not take into account who he was before his human birth.
Jesus was FROM Mary, his mother. I do not believe that Jesus preexisted as the Second Person of the Trinity, or as Michael the Archangel, or as any other created being.
Again the assumption was that he was the son of Joseph and Mary and as such fulfilled the prophesy.
Both Joseph and Mary belong to the tribe of Judah, and are both descendants of King David. So the heirship rights of Jesus would be doubly established.
No, Jesus was directly descended from David through Mary, and as such he was of David's flesh.
Since Jesus had to return to heaven to present the value of his sacrificial blood to his God and Father, it would be impossible for Jesus to be raised in a fleshly body…
Jesus' flesh body was raised from the dead as flesh and then changed to immortality. He still has an immortal flesh body.
Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm. Humans are confined to the earth, where the life support they need to live and breathe is abundantly supplied. Spirits live in heaven….fleshly creatures live on earth. No creature of flesh and blood can go to heaven. They must be transformed into spirit beings. What is mortal puts on immortality…..for the chosen ones.
Jesus is an immortal flesh body, a descendant of David. He does not have blood and does not need air.
Jesus ... will rule from heaven with his elect over earthly subjects. That is what the scriptures teach.
Jesus will return and reign from Jerusalem, and he will no longer be in heaven.
Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
This is what the Scriptures teach.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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JBO

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The fate of the entire human race rested with Adam, not the woman. (Rom 5:12) If Adam had made a different decision, he could have changed the whole course of human history.
You haven't sinned because Adam sinned. You sinned because you, like Adam, chose to sin. We all start out just like Adam started out, i.e., sinless. We become sinners once we sin. Having sinned, we become dead in (our) trespasses and sins. We were once spiritually alive and then became spiritually dead when we sinned. We stay that way until we are born again, made spiritually alive again.

Jesus started out no different than all the rest of humanity. He was born spiritually alive just like Adam and just like you and me. The difference is that Adam, you and I sinned while Jesus did not sin. To sin is a choice, it is a choice to disobey God. Jesus chose to always obey God.
 

JBO

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Jesus was FROM Mary, his mother. I do not believe that Jesus preexisted as the Second Person of the Trinity, or as Michael the Archangel, or as any other created being.
John 1:1 says that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God". It goes on to say in John 1:9 that the Word, was the "True Light" and in John 1:14 that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

Thus, what or who was the Word? The Word was the preincarnate Jesus. The Word was the second person of the Trinity. Just like the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Word was Spirit. All of us, since Adam and Eve, have been born of a woman. We are flesh. But we are also spirit. That spirit comes from God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). Everly human being, including Adam and Ever were given a spirit formed by God. That is the difference between the rest of all humanity and Jesus. Our spirits were formed by God and given to us. Jesus' spirit was not formed by God, Jesus' spirit was God. The spirit of the man Jesus Christ was the second Spirit of the Trinity. It was that second Spirit of the Trinity that came in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ and dwelt among us.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings JBO,
Thus, what or who was the Word? The Word was the preincarnate Jesus.
I believe that "The Word" of John 1:1 is a personification, similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" of Proverbs 8. Jesus was a human, the Son of God, born with God as his father and Mary his mother Luke 1:34-35.
Our spirits were formed by God and given to us. Jesus' spirit was not formed by God, Jesus' spirit was God. The spirit of the man Jesus Christ was the second Spirit of the Trinity.
I disagree with your exposition of "spirits". There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ is a human now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, charcter and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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You haven't sinned because Adam sinned. You sinned because you, like Adam, chose to sin.
I believe that Paul argues with this idea….

Romans 7:14-25….
”For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

It is a constant daily battle…..for all of Adam’s descendants. Who cannot identify with this weakness of the flesh and the propensity to sin, that Paul explains?
Rom 5:12..
”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.

We all start out just like Adam started out, i.e., sinless. We become sinners once we sin. Having sinned, we become dead in (our) trespasses and sins. We were once spiritually alive and then became spiritually dead when we sinned. We stay that way until we are born again, made spiritually alive again.
If sin is what leads to death, then why do babies die? Have they sinned in the womb? Or are they born with the defects of sin inherited from Adam? We are born in sin, through no fault of our own.

1 Cor 15:20-22…
”But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”

Sorry, but your argument is not supported by Scripture.
Jesus started out no different than all the rest of humanity. He was born spiritually alive just like Adam and just like you and me. The difference is that Adam, you and I sinned while Jesus did not sin. To sin is a choice, it is a choice to disobey God. Jesus chose to always obey God.
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam. Sin is like a genetically inherited disease which is passed on to the succeeding generations…..the only way to eliminate it is to stop reproducing….but in order to stamp out Adam’s sinful DNA, would require one of two remedies….to wipe out the entire human race and start again….or to provide a rescuer who could cancel the debt of sin by offering to die instead of us.

We know what course God chose.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam.
Jesus inherited the effects of Adam's sin, the lusts of the flesh and mortality. Adam was not created mortal, but received this because of his disobedience. So Jesus was not born the same as Adam before the fall.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

JBO

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Greetings JBO,

I believe that "The Word" of John 1:1 is a personification, similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" of Proverbs 8. Jesus was a human, the Son of God, born with God as his father and Mary his mother Luke 1:34-35.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,....

That does not seem to me to be a personification. It is a statement of fact.

I disagree with your exposition of "spirits". There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ is a human now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, charcter and resurrection.
You do not agree that each and every human being possesses a spirit? That is weird. A physical human being in the non-physical spiritual realm? That is also weird.
 

JBO

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I believe that Paul argues with this idea….

Romans 7:14-25….
”For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”


It is a constant daily battle…..for all of Adam’s descendants. Who cannot identify with this weakness of the flesh and the propensity to sin, that Paul explains?
How can it be a battle if it is not a choice?
Rom 5:12..
”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.
Because they all sinned. Not because Adam sinned. Adam was just the first (actually the second, but no matter) to sin. He introduced sin to the physical creation. As a result, he introduced spiritual death to the physical creation.
If sin is what leads to death, then why do babies die? Have they sinned in the womb? Or are they born with the defects of sin inherited from Adam? We are born in sin, through no fault of our own.
Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. The tree of life was placed in the garden to fend off that integral feature. Once ejected from the Garden, Adam and Eve no longer had access to that fruit and thus ended up eventually dying. But the spiritually died in the day the sinned.
1 Cor 15:20-22…
”But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”
Yes. Through a man, not because of a man. In Adam simply means being a human.
Sorry, but your argument is not supported by Scripture.
Sorry, but it is supported by scripture.
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam. Sin is like a genetically inherited disease which is passed on to the succeeding generations…..the only way to eliminate it is to stop reproducing….but in order to stamp out Adam’s sinful DNA, would require one of two remedies….to wipe out the entire human race and start again….or to provide a rescuer who could cancel the debt of sin by offering to die instead of us.

We know what course God chose.
Where do you read any of that? No one is born with the inheritance of sin. Sin is not inherited. Sin is committed. The physical death of Christ on the cross did not stop anyone from dying physically. It didn't even stop anyone from dying spiritually. The physical death of Christ on the cross was a sacrifice to God for the sins of the world. It was the means of redemption for all who would accept it. Those who accept it still die physically; however, they do not die the second death (Rev 20:14).

Sin is not inherited. The natural tendency to sin is inherited. That natural tendency was built into the creation of the human being. Otherwise, there would be no need for any of God's law. The tendency to sin is not sin.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again JBO,
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,....
That does not seem to me to be a personification. It is a statement of fact.
Yes, it speaks about how God's character became resident in Jesus, the Son of God. At the time of his ministry Jesus was revealed to be full of grace and truth. The moral glory is dependant upon the begettal of God's Son, and the begettal of Jesus is revealed in more detail in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35, where God the Father is the father of Jesus and Mary the mother.
You do not agree that each and every human being possesses a spirit? That is weird. A physical human being in the non-physical spiritual realm? That is also weird.
I disagree with your exposition on a number of grounds. I do not believe that our spirit lives after our death and contains the individual consciousness and character. When we die we return to the dust awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns. I do not accept the Trinity and therefore do not accept that the character and thinking of Jesus was because his whole spirit was an injection of the second person of the Trinity. Jesus grew as a child and was specially educated by God his father and Mary his mother and Joseph. As an aside, I doubt that many Trinitarians would accept your simplistic logic on the subject of the spirit of Jesus.
As a result, he introduced spiritual death to the physical creation.
He introduced physical death to himself and his descendants. He was to return to the dust and all his descendants are mortal, subject to death, even infants that die before they sin.
Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. The tree of life was placed in the garden to fend off that integral feature. Once ejected from the Garden, Adam and Eve no longer had access to that fruit and thus ended up eventually dying. But the spiritually died in the day the sinned.
The tree of life did not maintain them while they were in the Garden. One eating of the tree of life would have granted immortality and they were cast out so that they would not become immortal sinners.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

JBO

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Greetings again JBO,

Yes, it speaks about how God's character became resident in Jesus, the Son of God. At the time of his ministry Jesus was revealed to be full of grace and truth. The moral glory is dependant upon the begettal of God's Son, and the begettal of Jesus is revealed in more detail in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35, where God the Father is the father of Jesus and Mary the mother.

I disagree with your exposition on a number of grounds. I do not believe that our spirit lives after our death and contains the individual consciousness and character. When we die we return to the dust awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns. I do not accept the Trinity and therefore do not accept that the character and thinking of Jesus was because his whole spirit was an injection of the second person of the Trinity. Jesus grew as a child and was specially educated by God his father and Mary his mother and Joseph. As an aside, I doubt that many Trinitarians would accept your simplistic logic on the subject of the spirit of Jesus.

He introduced physical death to himself and his descendants. He was to return to the dust and all his descendants are mortal, subject to death, even infants that die before they sin.
Given all of that, there is not much for you and me to even discuss.
The tree of life did not maintain them while they were in the Garden. One eating of the tree of life would have granted immortality and they were cast out so that they would not become immortal sinners
So your idea here is that God obviously didn't know that Adam and Eve would sin and placed the tree of life in the garden to give them immortality. Not a very high view of God. But I guess given your comments above, that doesn't surprise me very much.