Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh nature?
- Thread starter Hobie
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
That's hilarious!
Luke 1:46,47
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
If Mary had actually been sinless... she would not be claiming Jesus as her Savior.
She fell short of God's absolute perfection as in ... ALL have sinned. Romans 3:23
Those that worship Mary are guilty of the sin of idolatry and if they don't REPENT of that nonesense and knock it off... they will not be allowed in to God's Kingdom.
Thanks for sharing that you are a Mary worshiper.... folks involved in this cult practice aren't just confused but DECEIVED by the devil
.
<--- here's their daddy!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Yes….free willed choices were theirs. God has no need of mindless robots….he could have created an army of them who could do no wrong, but all that would create is servants devoid of motives or genuine feelings.
God gave his intelligent creatures both. They could choose to serve and obey him out of love….or choose not to.
But we must be careful with that word “eternal” because that word applies only to the Creator. It means “without beginning or end” so no other being in existence is eternal…not even the son. He too had a beginning. (Rev 3:14)
No….man was made in God’s image……there is no “godhead”. Like the word itself, it is a Catholic invention, so ancient and ingrained that no one seems to want to question it as it fights with so much Scripture that most never see or hear.
Living forever did not mean immortality….they were given opportunity to “live forever” in mortal flesh.
The death that Adam introduced into the human race was removed by Christ’s sacrifice, but death could still take place at God’s hand if a free willed son rebelled. There is nothing to prevent the abuse of free will except the record of man’s excursion into disobedience and it’s awful repercussions. We have a permanent record of the disaster so that it can never happen again.
Yes, everlasting life in mortal flesh meant no aging, no sickness and no ‘natural’ cause of death.
Being barred from “the tree of life“ meant that death would overtake the human race as they experienced how many ways a human can die! Aging brings with it a breakdown in the body’s regenerative powers, when cell renewal does not take place adequately to keep a person from getting old. Sicknesses and accidents also involve a multitude of ways that death can come to a human body. None of them were meant to happen.
The tree of life would have prevented all those things. Imagine never getting old or sick or having disabilities…..ever. That is what we lost in Eden, but more importantly, we lost our personal connection with our Creator, so he lovingly provided a mediator.
OK, now we are getting into deeper territory……who then are the “saints”, and why are they “chosen” by God for a specific purpose? Are they the ones who are restored to what Adam originally had given to him?
Can you tell me what their purpose is? They are called “the chosen ones” so what are they chosen for?
What is the gift of “everlasting life” as opposed to “eternal life”? Do you understand the difference between “everlasting life“ and “immortality”? This is important and why our Bible translations must be read with a good Concordance. Original language words are important to our understanding of so many things.
It is how the “soul” and the “spirit” became interchangeable terms when they are not. It’s also how “hell” became a place of eternal torment instead of a place where the dead peacefully slept. (Eccl 9:5, 10)
So much has been misinterpreted, leading people to all sorts of conclusions. Who is right?
What “city” is this? And where are the “trees of life” in Revelation 22? What are these trees used for?
Rev 22:1-2…
And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.”
What “nations” are “healed” by these trees. And is there only one tree to provide this healing for the world of redeemed mankind?
Who is “they”….those who will “never perish”?
Can you tell me where the Lord’s Prayer fits in here?
What is the “Kingdom” that “comes” to man?….the one Jesus told us to pray for, as opposed to those who are chosen from the earth who go to the Kingdom of God in heaven?
“Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” (Rev 14:1-4)
Please note the number chosen….who have been “bought from the earth” as “firstfruits”.
What are “firstfruits”?
They have a role in heaven…..Rev 20:6…
“Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.”
What do we notice as to their purpose in being selected for an assignment in the heavenly Kingdom.
If they are kings, then they must have subjects….and if they are priests, they are there to guide their subjects in worship and to intercede on their behalf with God…..Christ’s sacrifice has made reconciliation with God a reality for these king/priests who have a totally different role to those who remain on earth in mortal flesh. Both groups have relied on Jesus’ sacrifice to save them.
Isa 55:11 tells us something about God, that most in Christendom misunderstand….and that is….’what God starts, he finishes’….or brings it to its intended conclusion.
With the ‘coming’ of that Kingdom, how then is God’s will “done on earth as it is in heaven”?
Can you tell me? Rev 21:2-4)
Big picture again…..
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Its in Genesis the first few chapters its hard to miss unless your blind or think genesis is allegory or never read it or never believed it..
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The KJV continually refers the seed. This is to indicate only the male can pass this seed along. This means it is Adams sin nature that has passed through all generations. No where in the bible does it say the female passes sin. Only the male. But both male and female receive the sin nature from their father. This has caused all to sin.
Genesis 4:25 - And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Matthew 1:18 - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Since only the male can pass the sin, Jesus was born without sin.
All genealogies show the male-to-male lineage. Matthew 1:1-17
Genesis 4:25 - And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
Matthew 1:18 - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Since only the male can pass the sin, Jesus was born without sin.
All genealogies show the male-to-male lineage. Matthew 1:1-17
Aunty, Aunty, not sure where your going with this but Gods Word is clear...
Acts 17:29
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
ASV
Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man.
AMP
So then, being God’s children, we should not think that the Divine Nature (deity) is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination or skill of man.
AMPC
Since then we are God’s offspring, we ought not to suppose that Deity (the Godhead) is like gold or silver or stone, [of the nature of] a representation by human art and imagination, or anything constructed or invented.
BRG
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
CSB
Since, then, we are God’s offspring, we shouldn’t think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image fashioned by human art and imagination.
CEB
“Therefore, as God’s offspring, we have no need to imagine that the divine being is like a gold, silver, or stone image made by human skill and thought.......
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
ASV
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
AMP
For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.
AMPC
For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],
BRG
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
CSB
For his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what he has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
CEB
Ever since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—God’s eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through the things God has made. So humans are without excuse.
CJB
For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse;....
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
ASV
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
AMP
For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
AMPC
For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
BRG
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
CSB
For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
CEB
All the fullness of deity lives in Christ’s body.
CJB
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is......
The Bible plainly lays out the plurality of God and that God is One God. We see the Father and Son at Creation:
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
And the Spirit:
Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
We see from the words of Christ that He confirms the GodHead as He gave His disciples the Great Commission, stating that they were to teach and baptize in the names of the Godhead:
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
And we see from Colossians that in Christ is the fullness of the GodHead bodily:
Colossians 2:6-9
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And the Holy Spirit is declare as part of the GodHead by scripture showing a clear understanding and by Christ Himself in :
John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Mark 1:10
And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
So the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are clearly declared in scripture, the GodHead is taught throughout the Bible
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yep lots of folks claim that when scriptures are posted that are inconvenient for their religious agenda
Cherry pickers never accept the whole counsel of God... they find one or two verses that seemingly fits their religious agenda and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Hobie, Hobie….you do realize that all those scriptures are translations of the original languages of the Bible, so that should be a starting point. What did the original say, rather than what men who believed in the god of Roman Catholicism, wanted it to say?
The word “godhead” is a manufactured word, as a thorough investigation into the original language shows.
Acts 17:29-31….ESV…
“Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
The Mounce Interlinear shows us the Greek….in verse 29…
So oun since we are hyparchō the offspring genos of ho God theos, we ought opheilō not ou to think nomizō that the ho divine being theios is eimi like homoios an image carved charagma in gold chrysos orē silver argyros orē stone lithos by human anthrōpos skill technē and kai imagination enthumēsis.”
The Greek “ho theos” is Almighty God, and Jesus is never addressed as “ho theos” because he is not Almighty God. He is addressed as “theos” which in Greek according to Strongs, carries the primary definition of…
- “a general name of deities or divinities”
The Greek again reveals the truth….
Rom 1:20 Mounce Interlinear….
“Ever since apo the creation ktisis of the world kosmos, ·ho his autos invisible aoratos attributes, ·ho that te is, his autos eternal aidios power dynamis and kai divine theiotēs nature, have been clearly seen kathoraō, being understood noeō through what ho has been made poiēma. So eis they autos are eimi without excuse anapologētos.”
Same word “theotēs”….”divine nature”.
No question about Christ’s “divinity”…his divine nature was from his God and Father…...but nowhere is he himself called “deity”….and with regard to the son and the holy spirit, they are “from God”, (ho theos) but are not gods in themselves, as separate deities.
Israel’s God, Yahweh, was “one”…not three.( Deut 6:4) Jesus never once contradicted that belief.
The “plurality” of God in Christendom, is believed to be ‘three gods in one head’….this is not the God of Jesus Christ.
There is “the plurality of majesty”, which is referred to as “the royal WE”…when royalty spoke of themselves it was always in the plural, denoting their superiority above the common people. No one is more superior than the Creatorof all things.
Nowhere does it say that this command is indicating three gods. The “confirmation” is in how you understand what Jesus said.
Bringing a Christian to baptism requires the combined efforts of God, by the operation of his spirit and the teachings of his Christ, which all come from the Father. Being baptised “in the name of” Father, son and holy spirit is an acknowledgment of their role in leading a person into a dedicated Christian life…..”baptism” was the outward show of an internal decision, to follow in the footsteps of the Master.
The Master himself was a “servant” of his God. (Acts 4:27-30)
There is no “godhead”...because that word does not exist as a true translation of the Greek.
Pick your translation wisely. Stick to the ones who translate the Greek accurately, not biasedly.
God uses mans language which is not perfect, but He gives His truth to where it cannot be denied, just ignored or purposely hidden. We find it if we look and allow the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and I am sure you know what it says.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is the Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace and the Lord Jehovah of the Old Testament. He is given as the Creator of the universe and everything in it. I am sure you know the name Yahweh comes from the Hebrew word for "I am," which was translated as 'Jehovah.' Whenever the name 'LORD' is printed in small caps in the Bible, it means 'YAHWEH'.
Now the scriptures is very clear that Jesus Christ is not just our Savior, but is also the Creator of the universe, Jehovah 'YAHWEH' of the Old Testament. Notice carefully:
All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made. John 1:3
He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. John 1:10
God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 3:9
For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16
Thus Jesus Christ is our Creator. The One who created, rested. Thus the Sabbath commandment, when correctly understood in the light of both the Old and New Testaments, points to Jesus Christ
Now some may say but God the great Jehovah created the earth in the beginning, but here is were the mystery of the GodHead has to be understood in order to understand who Jesus was.
Jesus is the Jehovah of ALL the Bible. He is the LORD Jehovah that walked in the cool of the day in Eden. Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus was Jehovah God who gave the Ten Commandments. Jesus was Jehovah God who was in the pillar of fire by night and cloud by day. Jesus was Jehovah God who appeared to Moses in the fiery bush and declared I am that I am.
What Jesus claims about Himself - John 8:48-59
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by Jesus.
Lets look at this story of Moses and the burning bush in Exodus...
Exodus 3:14-15..
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Now scripture shows us even more clearly who Christ is, if we just let the Holy Spirit guide us into truth.
THE FIRST AND THE LAST
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Now lets look at who is the Savior:
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD ; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
1Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Philippians 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Jesus is truly the Creator, Jehovah 'YAHWEH', the First and the Last, our Savior and Lord of the Sabbath. It is His day of worship from Creation, the day of rest, made for man not man for the Sabbath. So it all points to Christ, as He is the Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace and the Lord Jehovah, and its not mistranslated, the Jews wrote word for word and the apostles were clear, to say nothing of the revelation of Christ.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
When Jesus said, I go my my Father and your Father, my God and your God in John 20:17 it does sort of show the patriarchy of the Father, but why would it mean that they are not 3 in 1? It doesn't, Jesus is the Father's Son, so He has just as much weight as God the Father. It is His Son. If anyone goes up against a man's son then he goes against his father as one. Of course every son wants to obey his father (corrupted earth notwithstanding). I remember growing up, Dad was sort of God and had to be obeyed as the head of the Family.
And the Holy Spirit is the very essence of both Jesus and the Father so no problems there. They all have one mind. Jesus said that He only does what He sees the Father doing and only speaks that which He hears. I dont think it's confusing at all.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
First, we need to understand how sin entered the world. God told Adam, ‘You may eat from the tree of life, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it, you will certainly die’ (Genesis 2:16–17).
In the Bible, sin and death are inseparable concepts.
Here’s something we need to practice and remember: obedience to God’s Word is a theme that runs throughout the Old Testament, especially in Israel’s story. Obeying God’s Word brings blessing; disobeying it brings loss.
Put simply, when we disobey God’s Word, sin quietly enters, and death follows.
The fruit of the tree of life represents God’s Word. From the beginning, God commanded us not to seek to determine good and evil on our own but to learn to obey His Word.
Do you know the difference between obeying God’s Word and trying to discern good and evil?
The difference is this: If you haven’t even grasped God’s Word, attempting to judge good and evil is arrogance—and it leads to deception (calling good evil and evil good). Without the foundation of obeying God’s Word, true discernment is impossible.
Jesus did not inherit Adam and Eve’s sin because He emphasized that He did not act on His own will but the Father’s (John 6:38). He even asked, ‘Why do you call me good?’ (Mark 10:18), reminding us that only God is truly good.
However, Jesus did inherit the weakness of the flesh, which is why Satan tempted Him. For example, Satan challenged Jesus to turn stones into bread (Matthew 4:3)."
Key Notes:
1.Origin of Sin
Adam’s disobedience (Genesis 3:6) introduced sin and death into the world (Romans 5:12).
2.Obedience as Central Theme
Israel’s blessings and curses were tied to their obedience (Deuteronomy 28).
3.Tree of Life as God’s Word
Proverbs 3:18 describes wisdom as a "tree of life," symbolizing God’s life-giving instructions.
4.Jesus’ Sinless Nature
As the "second Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45), Jesus overcame temptation by obeying the Father (Hebrews 4:15).
5.Temptation of the Flesh
In the Bible, sin and death are inseparable concepts.
Here’s something we need to practice and remember: obedience to God’s Word is a theme that runs throughout the Old Testament, especially in Israel’s story. Obeying God’s Word brings blessing; disobeying it brings loss.
Put simply, when we disobey God’s Word, sin quietly enters, and death follows.
The fruit of the tree of life represents God’s Word. From the beginning, God commanded us not to seek to determine good and evil on our own but to learn to obey His Word.
Do you know the difference between obeying God’s Word and trying to discern good and evil?
The difference is this: If you haven’t even grasped God’s Word, attempting to judge good and evil is arrogance—and it leads to deception (calling good evil and evil good). Without the foundation of obeying God’s Word, true discernment is impossible.
Jesus did not inherit Adam and Eve’s sin because He emphasized that He did not act on His own will but the Father’s (John 6:38). He even asked, ‘Why do you call me good?’ (Mark 10:18), reminding us that only God is truly good.
However, Jesus did inherit the weakness of the flesh, which is why Satan tempted Him. For example, Satan challenged Jesus to turn stones into bread (Matthew 4:3)."
Key Notes:
1.Origin of Sin
Adam’s disobedience (Genesis 3:6) introduced sin and death into the world (Romans 5:12).
2.Obedience as Central Theme
Israel’s blessings and curses were tied to their obedience (Deuteronomy 28).
3.Tree of Life as God’s Word
Proverbs 3:18 describes wisdom as a "tree of life," symbolizing God’s life-giving instructions.
4.Jesus’ Sinless Nature
As the "second Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45), Jesus overcame temptation by obeying the Father (Hebrews 4:15).
5.Temptation of the Flesh
- Jesus’ humanity made Him vulnerable to temptation, yet He remained without sin (Hebrews 2:18).
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I am enjoying reading your posts.
I see that you are in China….is that your nationality? Or just your current place of residence?
Taking your list here, I might add the following…..
Clearly this is true. Before the fall, there was no sin, and hence no death. Disobedience is the cause of sin….sin is the cause of death.
Yes, life and death were held out to God’s people, governed by their obedience to his laws. But on the proviso that they continued to be obedient to his laws. Their obedience would have meant great blessings, but they could not remain obedient for very long, resulting in the withdrawal of God’s support in battle and the withholding of his blessing as a recompense for their failure.
We lean more about God from their failures than from their triumphs.
To me, “the tree of life” represented God’s Sovereignty….his right to dictate the limits of the freedom that he gave them. In contrast to the TKGE, which was death dealing, this tree was life giving, so depending on God to tell his human children what was good and what was bad, was vital. As we see from the time of the fall onward, humans are not good at discerning the difference. Deciding for themselves what is good and bad has had dire consequences.
So yes…God’s life giving instructions were vital.
Most who identify as Christians do not understand why Jesus is called “the last Adam”….they do not understand how redemption works.
He had to be the exact equivalent of Adam to “buy back” (redeem) what Adam lost for all his children.
Heb 9:12, 24…”He [Christ] entered into the holy place, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time, and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us…..For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf.”
Unlike the sacrifices made regularly by the Israelites, Christ’s sacrifice, was an “everlasting deliverance”, ensuring the forgiveness of sins, and giving back everlasting life to mankind on earth as God first intended.
Most Christians are so preoccupied with ‘going to heaven’ that they don’t realize that heaven was never meant to be a destination for the human race in the first place. God created humans to live forever on earth.
The earth is designed for us and the myriads of creatures who share life with us here.
Yes Jesus was 100% mortal human, and as open to sin as Adam was. As a free willed being, God gave Adam choices and told him about the consequences of his own actions. Jesus well knew the limitations of his humanity and kept the will of God foremost in his mind, not being tempted as satan was, with selfish desires and ambitions. He would wait for his God to reward him.
So what did Jesus buy back for the human race who accept his sacrifice for their sins? It was what we lost.
Everlasting life in paradise on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)
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soberxp
Well-Known Member
中国只是我在这个世界上的国籍。我真实的国籍是神的国。我在尝试努力活在神的国里，这超越了国籍，因为国籍产生敌对与仇恨相对于其它的国家。我想努力的顺服神的话语。比如，当爱你的仇敌。我厌倦了新闻里每天都是政治纷争，这个国家讨厌这个国家，那个国家讨厌那个国家。
China is just my nationality in the world. My true nationality is the Kingdom of God. I am trying to live in the Kingdom of God, which goes beyond nationality, because nationality generates hostility and hatred relative to other nations. I want to try to obey God's word. For example, love your enemy. I'm tired of politics in the news every day. This country hates this country, that country hates that country.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I am so pleased to hear that….so many “Christians” are tied up in the politics of their nation, that they never see what you see so clearly….Christians have a country of origin, but they have no “nationality”….you are correct when you say that our “nationality” (citizenship) is in the only Kingdom that God rules.
This is what prevents a Christian from being “part of the world” as Jesus said. (John 18:36) We are non political and non patriotic because we do not love our “country of origin” and its corrupt rulership, more than the Kingdom of God. No genuine Christian can resort to participate in the violence in war (even tacitly) and remain in Christ’s teachings. (Rom 12:17-21)
What do you see as the only hope for this Kingdom to become our reality?
What is God doing now to make the Lord’s Prayer come true?
How will God’s will be “done on earth as it is in heaven”?
I recall being asked what this prayer meant, and realized that I had been parroting it off for years without any understanding as to what it meant…..and I was surprised by the answer.
What about you? Have you always been a Christian, or were you converted as an adult?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Show me one place in the Bible where Jesus is called “the Creator”. There is no doubt that he was instrumental in creation, but in what capacity?…..there is only one Creator, one son of God, and one Holy Spirit which the Bible does not name.
Col 1:15-17…..take a closer look….
”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all things, and by means of him all things were made to exist”.
How can someone who is physical be “the image“ of someone who is invisible? Ever wondered? There is only one way…and that is Jesus spiritually bearing the attributes of his Father.
”All things were created THROUGH him and FOR HIM”…Again, ask yourself how did creation come”through” Jesus…..it is called agency…..and how was it brought into existence FOR him? If Jesus and his Father are one God, that makes no sense.
Isa 9:6…is totally skewed by the trinity doctrine which did not exist in the Jewish faith.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
Analyze this verse from the Jewish perspective……
We know that the “child” to be born in the future, was to be the head of a “government”.
What “government” is this? It is “the Kingdom of God”….the one Jesus taught us to pray for…the one which would rule mankind, meaning that God’s will is “done on earth, as it is in heaven”.
Now what about those titles he was to bear?
Was Jesus a wonderful counsellor? We know that all his counsel came from his God and Father. It was all wonderful.
Was he a mighty God? Yes, in the meaning of the word in Hebrew. If you recall Jesus‘ words to the Pharisees who accused him of blasphemy, John 10:31-36 reveals that God himself used the word “gods” to describe human judges in Israel. Because they represented him to the people so, they could rightly be called such. So calling someone a “mighty god” was not calling this child “Almighty God”…because there is only one who is “Almighty”. This child would have divine origins.
Can Jesus be an “everlasting father” and if so, in what sense to Jews, could he carry this title?
The word “father” in Hebrew has a few meanings.
According to Strongs, a “father can be….
- father of an individual
- of God as father of his people
- head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
- ancestor
Number 3 is the most likely definition here. Jews were never trinitarians. (Deut 6:4)
Jesus founded Christianity….
”Prince of Peace”….what is a “Prince”?…he is the son of a King.
Many princes in history ruled alongside their fathers as co-regents. Jesus rules in the Kingdom of his Father and under his direction. Jesus always did the will of his Father in all things. God’s will was his main concern.
So you see when your Bible study is thorough and properly investigated, the Scriptures will reinforce their own truth. Jesus is not Yahweh.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Actually when I looked this up in the Hebrew Tanakh, this is how that passage was rendered….
Exodus 3:13-15…
| 13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" | יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם: | |
| 14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" | ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם: | |
| 15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.” | טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר: |
What do you see there as the meaning of God’s name? “I will be what I will be” is more correct than “I Am” because the Israelites already knew who their God was, as they existed as a separate nation to the Egyptians under whose power they served as slaves. They knew who their forefather Jacob was, and the promise made to him as the one descended from Abraham from whom the seed (Messiah) would come.
If the Jews had been obedient to God’s command there for his name to be his memorial to all generations to come, there would have been no excuse to lose it through some misguided superstition.
What was Jesus’ first order of importance in the Lord’s Prayer?…..”hallowed be thy name”….what name was that? The one recorded in Psalm 83:18 (KJV) The one that Jews refused to utter, so it was lost to history.
If the divine name had been retained, then the identity of the “only true God and the one he sent” (John 17:3) would never have been lost.
Since God’s name never was “I Am”, you can see that the Jews asked Jesus about his age, not his status as a deity. Jesus response was…”before Abraham was…I have been”….IOW, Jesus existed before Abraham was even born.
It was a past tense question and demanded an past tense answer….”I Am” is present tense. “I have been” is the appropriate response to their question. Can you not see how skewed it all is when the very nature of God is falsified?
The name of God indicated to Israel that he would “be” or “become” whatever he needed to be in order to carry out his will in connection with this chosen nation. Of all people, why did God choose Israel?
What did we learn about God in the way he dealt with them?
You can see from the Jewish Tanakh that God’s name is YHWH (“Yahweh“ or translated as “Jehovah” in English) “I will be what I will be” was not a statement of his existence, but what he would be to his nation once they were released from Egyptian slavery. He would show them his power and his superiority over the false gods of the nations. Starting with Pharaoh.
“The Lord God” there in the Tanakh is “Yahweh”.…who is and always was “One God” when all the nations around the Israelites had multiples deities. (Deut 6:4)
Jesus is never once called Yahweh, and this would have been an unthinkable blasphemy to him. He was “God’s holy servant”. (Acts 4:27-30)
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
You're not saying this is not also taught in the New Testament... are ya?
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God spoke His Word to make things exist... Jesus IS God's Word
John 1:1-3 says it did.... feel free to try and figure this out with your canal mind.
I'm going to simply believe what God said with child like faith... for such is the Kingdom of God.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
If you have read the Greek Scriptures and studied the language and phrasing used in it, you would understand that God’s word is the only thing we have to base our faith on. The teachings of Jesus came directly out of what Christendom calls the “Old Testament”….that is the Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus‘ apostles often used the Greek Septuagint translation of the day to teach Christ’s gentile disciples. So there was nothing “old“ (or outdated) about what it taught….if not in fact, then it taught in principle.
The so called “New Testament” is not really “new” either, as it drew on the Hebrew writings and what they taught Israel about the coming Messiah.
Without God’s word, we would have no knowledge of Jesus.….or what he and his apostles, taught.
God the Father is the Creator…he is the great Architect, but Jesus, as his son and “master workman”, was the construction crew. All things came into existence “through” the son…not “from” him. You will notice in your quoted translation the word is “made” not “created”. These are two different words with two different meanings.
Prov 8: 30-31 is speaking about this “master workman“ as one whom God created before he created the physical Universe. He was in existence “in the beginning”, before anything else was created. He was then used by his God and Father in the construction of all things, using the raw materials brought into existence by one almighty act of creation…..what scientists call “the Big Bang”. Science knows that the Universe had a beginning, and the Bible tells us that the son of God did too.
John 1:1 says that the Word was “WITH God” “in the beginning“….so don’t we have to ask…what “beginning” is this? The eternal God had no beginning.
Rev 3:14 tells us…..
“And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God”…
That “faithful and true witness”…the “Amen” (so be it) to God’s purpose for the human race….was “the beginning of God’s creation.“….this is the spirit being who became Jesus Christ….one who shared “glory” with his Father “before the world was”. (John 17:5)
When you know what the Bible teaches, there is nothing to “figure out”….the Bible explains itself if you put down the false doctrines adopted by the Roman Catholic church, and allow it to speak for itself….
It is one thing to be a spiritual babe, because we all start off off as one…..but all babies have to grow up….they get teeth and enjoy getting into sold foods that build physical strength. (1 Cor 13:11-13 ; Heb 5:13-14)
Solid “spiritual food” results in spiritual strength. This is what builds faith….not believing because someone told you something was true, but searching the Scriptures to find the answers to all the hard questions ourselves…..it is very satisfying….and why I refer often to “the big picture”.
Do you have a big picture?
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
I don't follow or have anything to do with the catholic cult... or the SDA cult either for that matter.
Both of these religious organizations are vehicles for false doctrine.
Not from you, no.
It's not scriptural for women to attempt to teach men so maybe you can find some other gullible men to make your claim that you actually "know" God's Word to see if they will bow down and let you dictate what they should believe rather than following THE Teacher... the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ Who was sent by Jesus to lead us in to all Truth with God's written Word containing Truth!
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