How a Skeptical Philosopher Becomes a Christian

Matthias · Feb 6, 2025

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed.

”Wow! Co-founder of Wikipedia converts from agnostic to Christian!”

x.com

The author of the tweet provides a link (see below) to a long article written by Larry Sanger in which Mr. Sanger describes how he went from being a skeptic to being a Christian. It’s a story which I thought some friends and acquaintances I’ve made here - as well as other readers whom I’ve not interacted with - might find interesting.

SangerFeed

I am now a Christian.Here's how I was converted.https://larrysanger.org/2025/02/how-a-skeptical-philosopher-becomes-a-christian/

sangerfeed.org

@Riven @Cerraco

Riven · Feb 26, 2025

Matthias said:
From my X / Twitter “For you” feed.

”Wow! Co-founder of Wikipedia converts from agnostic to Christian!”

x.com

x.com

The author of the tweet provides a link (see below) to a long article written by Larry Sanger in which Mr. Sanger describes how he went from being a skeptic to being a Christian. It’s a story which I thought some friends and acquaintances I’ve made here - as well as other readers whom I’ve not interacted with - might find interesting.

SangerFeed

I am now a Christian.Here's how I was converted.https://larrysanger.org/2025/02/how-a-skeptical-philosopher-becomes-a-christian/

sangerfeed.org

@Riven @Cerraco

I'm sorry, but if you have to post a 14,000 word essay to get your point across, I'm just really not interested. Besides, anyone can open a bible and read Genesis. It's kind of a litmus test.

Matthias · Feb 26, 2025

Riven said:
I'm sorry, but if you have to post a 14,000 word essay to get your point across, I'm just really not interested. Besides, anyone can open a bible and read Genesis. It's kind of a litmus test.

Good to hear from you again. My point was a simple one: OAAA (Once Agnostic Always Agnostic / Once Atheist Always Atheist) isn’t a thing unless a person wants it to be.

I thought you might find it interesting, in full or in part. If not, just forget about it.

How are you getting along these days?

Riven · Mar 1, 2025

Matthias said:
Good to hear from you again. My point was a simple one: OAAA (Once Agnostic Always Agnostic / Once Atheist Always Atheist) isn’t a thing unless a person wants it to be.

The same can be said for Christians. It's ultimately about what you can bring yourself to believe.

Matthias said:
How are you getting along these days?

I'm doing better, thanks. How about yourself?

Matthias · Mar 1, 2025

Riven said:
The same can be said for Christians. It's ultimately about what you can bring yourself to believe.

Essentially. If you had it in mind to do for me (and people like me) what I had in mind to do for you (and people like you), you would start a thread about a Christian who ceased believing. I would read it to discover why the Christian made the decision and weigh the argument. I’m open to examining and re-examining my faith.

Riven said:
I'm doing better, thanks.

I’m glad to hear it.

Riven said:
How about yourself?

I’m healthy and staying busy. Thank you for asking.

Riven · Mar 1, 2025

Matthias said:
Essentially. If you had it in mind to do for me (and people like me) what I had in mind to do for you (and people like you), you would start a thread about a Christian who ceased believing. I would read it to discover why the Christian made the decision and weigh the argument. I’m open to examining and re-examining my faith.

It's really not so complicated. I read Genesis and decided it couldn't possibly be true. In fact, many ex-Christians often say that reading the bible was a revelation for them and a contributing factor, if not the main factor, in why they abandoned the religion. Many of them have no idea how far fetched the stories are until they read it.

I mean, if you can believe in talking snakes and people living to be a thousand years old, by all means, keep believing. But it flies in the face of the scientific evidence. We didn't live longer lives in the past, we lived shorter lives. That's why we invented modern medicine. We live longer today than we ever did in the past.

And the religion is so earth-centric. What about the rest of the universe? What's the purpose of creating billions of galaxies if everything is about us? Earth could vanish from the universe tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. It's one planet in a universe that's full of them. We have several planets in our own solar system that don't support life. What's the point of that?

Matthias · Mar 2, 2025

Riven said:
It's really not so complicated. I read Genesis and decided it couldn't possibly be true. In fact, many ex-Christians often say that reading the bible was a revelation for them and a contributing factor, if not the main factor, in why they abandoned the religion. Many of them have no idea how far fetched the stories are until they read it.

I mean, if you can believe in talking snakes and people living to be a thousand years old, by all means, keep believing. But it flies in the face of the scientific evidence. We didn't live longer lives in the past, we lived shorter lives. That's why we invented modern medicine. We live longer today than we ever did in the past.

And the religion is so earth-centric. What about the rest of the universe? What's the purpose of creating billions of galaxies if everything is about us? Earth could vanish from the universe tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. It's one planet in a universe that's full of them. We have several planets in our own solar system that don't support life. What's the point of that?

Reading the Bible doesn’t cause people to stop following Jesus. Those in your example who ceased being Christians encountered things in the Bible they didn’t understand and had questions they didn’t discover satisfying answers for.

Jesus tells us how to start following him and why people stop following him in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8).

Riven · Mar 2, 2025

Matthias said:
Reading the Bible doesn’t cause people to stop following Jesus. Those in your example who ceased being Christians encountered things in the Bible they didn’t understand and had questions they didn’t discover satisfying answers for.

Jesus tells us how to start following him and why people stop following him in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13, Mark 4, Luke 8).

Not everyone, no. But a great many Christians don't even read the bible. When they finally do, they of course have questions. Based on my own experience, Christian leaders, pastors and such, are just as much in the dark on these questions as any other Christians.

When I went to a private Christian school in my high school years, I was a bit shocked by the fact that there were no science textbooks in the school. These students knew nothing about biology or astronomy. They couldn't even name the planets in our own solar system.

In the end, you either question what you're reading, or you do not. When Christians have legitimate questions about the material that they don't get satisfactory answers for, what should be the response? Because I don't blame anyone for walking away after having read it.

Matthias · Mar 2, 2025

Riven said:
Not everyone, no. But a great many Christians don't even read the bible. When they finally do, they of course have questions. Based on my own experience, Christian leaders, pastors and such, are just as much in the dark on these questions as any other Christians.

To your point, I have a thread on the Board dedicated to encouraging people to read the Bible daily. It receives little attention, less support and even some weak opposition from Christians. Regular Bible reading among us is, according to statistics compiled in yearly surveys conducted by reputable Christian organizations, abysmal. As a pastor (retired), I have a duty and a responsibility to deal with that problem.

Riven said:
When I went to a private Christian school in my high school years, I was a bit shocked by the fact that there were no science textbooks in the school. These students knew nothing about biology or astronomy. They couldn't even name the planets in our own solar system.

The quality of Christian school education varies.

[When we were looking into Christian schools for our daughter to attend, we didn’t visit any that were like the one you attended. The curriculum at the high school she attended (graduating as the class Salutatorian) required advanced math and science classes. She attended a highly regarded public university (graduating Magna Cum Laude) and to this day maintains that her Christian high school was more demanding and rigorous than her public university was.]

Riven said:
In the end, you either question what you're reading, or you do not.

My approach with students when I was teaching: Read widely. Read deeply. Read thoughtfully. Read critically.

Riven said:
When Christians have legitimate questions about the material that they don't get satisfactory answers for, what should be the response?

Twofold: Continue looking for answers to those questions and, whether they find them or not, never stop listening to, believing and obeying Messiah Jesus.

Riven said:
Because I don't blame anyone for walking away after having read it.

You’re of the world and, naturally, expressing the world’s view on the matter.

Riven · Mar 4, 2025

Matthias said:
To your point, I have a thread on the Board dedicated to encouraging people to read the Bible daily. It receives little attention, less support and even some weak opposition from Christians. Regular Bible reading among us is, according to statistics compiled in yearly surveys conducted by reputable Christian organizations, abysmal. As a pastor (retired), I have a duty and a responsibility to deal with that problem.

They call themselves Christians, but they don't care what's on the bible beyond what the pastor tells them is in there. Such is not the case with Islam. They read their holy book.

Matthias said:
The quality of Christian school education varies.

[When we were looking into Christian schools for our daughter to attend, we didn’t visit any that were like the one you attended. The curriculum at the high school she attended (graduating as the class Salutatorian) required advanced math and science classes. She attended a highly regarded public university (graduating Magna Cum Laude) and to this day maintains that her Christian high school was more demanding and rigorous than her public university was.]

Fair enough.

Matthias said:
My approach with students when I was teaching: Read widely. Read deeply. Read thoughtfully. Read critically.

Then you can't blame them for walking away after being critical of the material. They're doing exactly what you're teaching them to do.

Matthias said:
Twofold: Continue looking for answers to those questions and, whether they find them or not, never stop listening to, believing and obeying Messiah Jesus.

Why? Why not just do as you please in this life? Why impose rules on yourself that need not be?

Matthias said:
You’re of the world and, naturally, expressing the world’s view on the matter.

I'm expressing my views. Has it ever occurred to you that the world may be right?

Matthias · Mar 4, 2025

Riven said:
They call themselves Christians, but they don't care what's on the bible beyond what the pastor tells them is in there. Such is not the case with Islam. They read their holy book.

Millions of Christians read the Bible regularly.

If they’ve stopped following Jesus and still call themselves Christians then they aren’t what they claim to be.

Riven said:
Then you can't blame them for walking away after being critical of the material. They're doing exactly what you're teaching them to do.

I don’t teach people to stop following Jesus.

Riven said:
Why? Why not just do as you please in this life? Why impose rules on yourself that need not be?

Christianity isn’t, never has been, and never will be ruleless. Even the world has rules.

Riven said:
I'm expressing my views. Has it ever occurred to you that the world may be right?

I’ve considered the world. If I thought the world is right I wouldn’t be a follower of Jesus.

The world has its reward. The followers of Jesus will have theirs.

Riven · Mar 4, 2025

Matthias said:
I don’t teach people to stop following Jesus.

You claim to be teaching them to read critically. How do they even know what this means if you don't explain it to them?

Matthias said:
Christianity isn’t, never has been, and never will be ruleless. Even the world has rules.

Laws, yes. But not so much in the way of moralistic rules. It's the moralism that I take issue with.

Matthias said:
I’ve considered the world. If I thought the world is right I wouldn’t be a follower of Jesus.

The world has its reward. The followers of Jesus will have theirs.

Fair enough.

Matthias · Mar 4, 2025

Riven said:
You claim to be teaching them to read critically. How do they even know what this means if you don't explain it to them?

What makes you think they didn’t know how to think critically before stepping foot in my classroom? What makes you think I didn’t teach them what thinking critically means?

Does it simply boil down to your belief that thinking critically = believing the Bible and / or following Jesus is impossible?

Riven said:
Laws, yes. But not so much in the way of moralistic rules. It's the moralism that I take issue with.

Taking issue with moralism is taking issue with God and with the Messiah. As long as you know that and are satisfied with it, my conscience is clear.

Matthias · Mar 5, 2025

Riven said:
Laws, yes. But not so much in the way of moralistic rules. It's the moralism that I take issue with.

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning:

“Every law that gets passed is legislating morality.”

(Gabriel Hughes)

https://x.com/pastor_gabe/status/1897072009169010716?s=61

Wrangler · Mar 5, 2025

Riven said:
I'm sorry, but if you have to post a 14,000 word essay to get your point across, I'm just really not interested.

Agreed.

Riven said:
Besides, anyone can open a bible and read Genesis. It's kind of a litmus test.

Yet, Bible reading seldom converts. His essay was merely to document for posterity his personal conversion experience.

Wrangler · Mar 5, 2025

Riven said:
I read Genesis

Riven said:
if you can believe in talking snakes and people living to be a thousand years old, by all means, keep believing.

I appreciate your knowledge of the Bible. Can you cite one verse that states people living a thousand years or snakes talking?

Still, I take the Original Sin story as allegorical. Job too. Much of the Bible is figurative and the moral lessons are narrative, not academic. Our culture has a very different take on literature than the ancients did. We incorrectly conclude that if a story is fiction it is not true. The ancients conveyed truth through story. To limit oneself to the literal truth is to miss the truth being true. For instance, the power of Icarus flying too close to the sun does not come from it's literal truth but being a cautionary tale of being overly ambitious.

This explains why many sermons have the preachers pull verses from here and there. There is often more than one moral to draw from the same story, which is certainly the case with the Original Sin story. That there was an evil doer in the Garden of Eden and heaven explains why there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Rev 21:1 Then there is the cultural and idiomatic divide where we just gloss over the exchange. All this makes the Bible hard for the modern reader to grasp.

Matthias · Mar 5, 2025

Wrangler said:
His essay was merely to document for posterity his personal conversion experience.

Yes, that’s right. I read it and knew it was too long. Still, the essay has the potential to resonate with others who are now where he once was. I posted it as a matter of conscience.

I don’t know how many it might resonate with but even if it is only one then I consider it to have been worthwhile.

Wrangler · Mar 5, 2025

Riven said:
When I went to a private Christian school in my high school years, I was a bit shocked by the fact that there were no science textbooks in the school. These students knew nothing about biology or astronomy. They couldn't even name the planets in our own solar system.

Hard to believe. The Catholic school my friends went to were excellent, including in the sciences. What you may not realize is that education, in general, and science, in particular, advanced for centuries in Western Civilization because of Christians. Many great scientists of the past were devote.

It was only in the 19th century with evolution and LONG TIME that it became vogue for scientists to disdain religion. Emerging science brings us back to God. I have a whole thread on that topic if you are interested.

How a Skeptical Philosopher Becomes a Christian

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