Should they sharpen sword

Nancy said:

Hello brother!
What do you say about this verse:

Luke 22:36
"36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Click to expand...

I was going to have Matthew 26:52 engraved on the slide of my Glock 17 (which is too big to carry comfortably AIWB) as a reminder:

52 Then Jesus says to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword."

My Dreams said:

Unbelievers, have posted on social media to gather, attack Christians, with weapons kill everyone, assault woman children.

Should these believers sharpen sword and attack and kill these unbelievers if they attack. It's their own place village and houses but others with attack because they are believers.

Thank you!

Click to expand...

The short answer is yes.

"Should these believers sharpen sword and defend and kill these unbelievers if they attack. It's their own place village and houses but others will attack because they are believers."

I think you had two typos in there so I fixed them in my quote?

I doubt anyone would say that it is not ok to defend yourself or your family, but what you see on social media are precursors to violence. But most people do not have crosses outside their home which identify them as Christians (actually, I do but that's irrevelant) so if some punks got together and made a plan to hurtsome Christians, do you really think that they will go to a residential neighborhood? I doubt it because violent people like that would want to kill or hurt as many Christians as they can, so I would expect them to start hitting churches during services, where Christians are gathered together.

So I think that I would be more concerned with the posibility for an attack to happen at church! It's been a long time since I stepped into a church unarmed! The time is coming and indeed, is here! For churches to form Security Teams.

Apparently attacks are already happening on a small scale we hear about them sometimes. There is a site called ChristianWarrior.com and they search out all of the attacks in the country and recount them and then talk about it from a security point of view and I like listening to that guy.

I dont believe that we should ever attack others who would do us harm. Or at least we shouldnt sy that or think like that. Epehsians 6. But we see that in the OT that God led His people into battle many times, but nevertheless, llet us defend and not attack, for to attack is a aggressive maneuver.

I havent revealed to any church staff that I carry a concealed weapon, but if I was at church, and shots rang out...I'm no longer sure that it would be a wise decision to draw a weapon and confront the bad guy. Church staff may shoot me, having no idea that I belong to the Lord, all they see is the gun! So I need to chew on that some more.

I can certainly see the wisdom is staff of a church knowing that I am a good guy but my fear is that they would be scared that I'd do something stupid and tell me not to carry in church...and that's not really up to them, My safety. So I'm conflicted about it. I came about 2 cm from being a LEO Officer and I even went through the training for it, but I backed out before I was sworn in, and not only that but guns have been the hobby of my lifetime. (Thanks Dad!). So I'm not a rambo wannabe. But church staff have a viable expectation to know about their congregation and how much iron is in the audience. I know it would be concerning to the staff of the church that, that guy they dont know very well packs a gun. But we each have our own responsibility for every bullet that we launch from our guns. So if an attack happens at the church, we can't just sit there! I like to sit down front, but if someone came in the doors in the back and began shooting, how could I shoot at him, I doubt I could. Only if the bad guy were real close to me.

We don't wrestle with people, they are not the enemy. It is the evil spirits which are demonizing them into making an attack. So the figure it, if a man has a gun in his hand and is attacking people, then there's no time to pray right then. There's no time to evangelize the attacker and tell him how much Jesus loves him. You have to stop the threat.

Sometimes, there's no other way. Attacks are what they call, exigent circumstances which is where an attack is happening right now and in defense you can act without regard to your enviroment. Now that may sound harsh but you gotta do what you gotta do. And of course we do act with regard to our enviroment in Christ, naturally, but not measureable.

I have carried a loaded pistol for about 40 years now and I have had a few close calls, but I have never shot anyone, by the grace of God I havent! The reason I have been able to not shoot anyone is because of the presence of my gun. Having a weapon (firearm) gives you more time to think and find out if it is possible to get out of this mess with no shots fired. A weapon bears confidence (if you can shoot good)and allows you to be able to think clearly to resolve the situation the best way possible.

But it's like King David said...sometimes you have to chop their head off.

Lambano said:

I was going to have Matthew 26:52 engraved on the slide of my Glock 17 (which is too big to carry comfortably AIWB) as a reminder:

52 Then Jesus says to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword."

Click to expand...

I have meditated on those verses a lot and it sort of scares me! Scripture says that God puts our desires in our heart? Then why do I like (swords) so much? Could it be that some are chosen to be warriors?

But I am not a warrior and dont want to have to shoot any people, ever on this earth. But, it's my hobby and I love talking about guns. I am an accomplished big game hunter, I reload my own ammo. I have some guns that have never fired a facory round! I tried to get in the military when I was young and they wouldn't take me because I was epileptic, so I've had no warrior training. I don't really want to fight people. But it may not be up to me. I have an aspiration to not ever have to shoot or kill another person on earth, but I also find it as my hobby? I am good at it? What's that mean? I have a David and Goliath moment in my future? I even have some guns that have never fired a facotory made bullet because I cast my own bullets for them! What a Quandry!

Debp said:

You only kill someone if you are defending your family and yourself. You do not go out to seek someone to kill. If you do that, you are becoming like those who want to kill you.

Click to expand...

did Jesus kill anyone in defence of anything?

Lambano said:

I know. Like I said, I carry concealed (with a state permit, of course, to any BATF agents who may be monitoring this forum), and we have (legal) weapons at home. And I realize that as an older woman who lives in California (which is notoriously restrictive on gun ownership), you're definitely more vulnerable.

One of the Bible teachers that I respect carries a .45 (he lives in Florida; he can do that), and he teaches that biblically, we can defend ourselves against ordinary street crime. (Were I to argue against that, I would quote Luke 6:29b, If someone takes your coat, give them your shirt too.) But if we're being killed for following Jesus, we're called to do what Jesus did. And a lot of the 1st-century martyrs did just that.

Do I have the faith to allow someone to kill me and my family for the sake of Jesus and the Gospel? I don't know.

Click to expand...

I think the justifications Christians use for violence is because they believe God kills. They use many examples foremost of which is the story of the Flood and the account of Sodom and Gomorrah.
They have not seen how Jesus counter balances or should I say nullifies this view by the reality of God he revealed in his sojourn here on Earth

quietthinker said:

did Jesus kill anyone in defence of anything?

Click to expand...

No, Jesus didn't. But He also said...

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one Luke 22:36


If a woman is being sexually assaulted, I believe she has the right to fight back. Likewise someone protecting their family and themselves.

Many years ago my mother worked as a cashier. One night a guy came in and held a sawed off shotgun right at her ribs. She sensed he was going to kill her. She grabbed the shotgun and forcibly held it downwards....all the while shouting "Jesus is Lord!!!"

All of the customers dove under their tables. It was a black guy but she said he turned pale. Finally her manager came around the corner and yelled at him to get out. He fled but not before ripping her blouse off of her shoulder.

Another time I was walking home in the dark from work. A guy held a gun or knife at my ribs demanding my purse. From deep within me, a forceful "in Jesus' name" came out of me. His jaw dropped open and he immediately started to apologize and say he didn't mean to do it. I told him where to get help (he was a young man). He fled.

So sometimes we might need to use force to defend ourselves and sometimes God might give us a miracle.

@My Dreams

quietthinker said:

I think the justifications Christians use for violence is because they believe God kills.

Click to expand...

Who do you think caused the death of Ananias and Sapphira ?

Acts 5:5 Context​

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

talons said:

Who do you think caused the death of Ananias and Sapphira ?

Acts 5:5 Context​

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

Click to expand...

I think they died of a heart attack from being found out. Their carefully crafted pious cover failed; it was too much for them.

When Jesus appears with billions of angels in the sky, many many folk will experience the same thing....particularly the 'religious'
Revelation 6:15-17 describes a scene of panic, even suicide.

Debp said:

No, Jesus didn't. But He also said...

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one Luke 22:36


If a woman is being sexually assaulted, I believe she has the right to fight back. Likewise someone protecting their family and themselves.

Many years ago my mother worked as a cashier. One night a guy came in and held a sawed off shotgun right at her ribs. She sensed he was going to kill her. She grabbed the shotgun and forcibly held it downwards....all the while shouting "Jesus is Lord!!!"

All of the customers dove under their tables. It was a black guy but she said he turned pale. Finally her manager came around the corner and yelled at him to get out. He fled but not before ripping her blouse off of her shoulder.

Another time I was walking home in the dark from work. A guy held a gun or knife at my ribs demanding my purse. From deep within me, a forceful "in Jesus' name" came out of me. His jaw dropped open and he immediately started to apologize and say he didn't mean to do it. I told him where to get help (he was a young man). He fled.

So sometimes we might need to use force to defend ourselves and sometimes God might give us a miracle.

@My Dreams

Click to expand...

Do you think he meant that by selling their garment to buy a sword meant they were to go garment-less, in other words, no clothes aka as naked? I'm sure you wouldn't draw that conclusion Deb.
So we must ask, did he mean a bladed weapon with which to harm people with? What do you think? ...and how would we understand these texts.....Matthew 5:38-40 Matthew 5:39

quietthinker said:

I think the justifications Christians use for violence is because they believe God kills. They use many examples foremost of which is the story of the Flood and the account of Sodom and Gomorrah.
They have not seen how Jesus counter balances or should I say nullifies this view by the reality of God he revealed in his sojourn here on Earth

Click to expand...

And you can add most of the Book of Revelation too. How about Joshua's conquest of Canaan, where God commanded His people to commit genocide?

Did you ever do one of those Bible studies showing where God either uses violence or authorizes His people to use violence? One of my favorites is 2 Kings 2:23-24:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

Click to expand...

(While this is on the surface a case of overreacting to a childish insult with violence, I would note that in an American court of law, this could well be considered a justifiable use of deadly force. The disparity of force represented by more than 42 hostile boys (we're not told what age; I'm assuming young teens) could reasonably be interpreted to be an imminent threat of death, grievous bodily harm, or rape, which is the legal criteria for justifiable use of deadly force here. Make sure you have a good lawyer. Not that God needs one. And I can just visualize the prosecutor introducing the two bears in court as Exhibit A, the murder weapon.)

quietthinker said:

Do you think he meant that by selling their garment to buy a sword meant they were to go garment-less, in other words, no clothes aka as naked?

Click to expand...

Okay; now I'm visualizing a naked guy running about downtown Los Angeles waving a sword.

My real concern is that this particular verse can be used by those who want to use the sword anyway to justify their own desire for violence. Sometime what we see inside ourselves is pretty ugly.

Lambano said:

And you can add most of the Book of Revelation too. How about Joshua's conquest of Canaan, where God commanded His people to commit genocide?

Did you ever do one of those Bible studies showing where God either uses violence or authorizes His people to use violence? One of my favorites is 2 Kings 2:23-24:



(While this is on the surface a case of overreacting to a childish insult with violence, I would note that in an American court of law, this could well be considered a justifiable use of deadly force. The disparity of force represented by more than 42 hostile boys (we're not told what age; I'm assuming young teens) could reasonably be interpreted to be an imminent threat of death, grievous bodily harm, or rape, which is the legal criteria for justifiable use of deadly force. Make sure you have a good lawyer. Not that God needs one. And I can just visualize prosecutor introducing the two bears in court as Exhibit A, the murder weapon.)

Click to expand...

There are accounts we read about in the bible and assume them to be God sanctioned. I think that assumption is in error.
For instance, we have Elijah, one of the greatest prophets who turned Israel from the worship of Baal back to God yet after that spectacular fire from heaven he went and slaughtered hundreds of the prophets of Baal. Did God sanction that slaughter because his man had courage and stood fearlessly against the King? I doubt it.

The behaviour of slaughter he engaged clearly affected his state of mind and confidence negatively because he then ran like a frightened rabbit from Jezebel's threats. In our modern lingo we might label that PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

quietthinker said:

There are accounts we read about in the bible and assume them to be God sanctioned. I think that assumption is in error.
For instance, we have Elijah, one of the greatest prophets who turned Israel from the worship of Baal back to God yet after that spectacular fire from heaven he went and slaughtered hundreds of the prophets of Baal. Did God sanction that slaughter because his man had courage and stood fearlessly against the King? I doubt it.

Click to expand...

You might want to think that one through. Are you saying that Elijah himself had the power to generate fireballs coming down from the sky? Wasn't that incident not just God-sanctioned, but God-committed, violence? The Bible isn't pretty sometimes.

quietthinker said:

The behaviour of slaughter he engaged clearly affected his state of mind and confidence negatively because he then ran like a frightened rabbit from Jezebel's threats. In our modern lingo we might label that PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

Click to expand...

Yep. My son served in hell-holes like Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I've seen what PTSD can do to a person.

quietthinker said:

Do you think he meant that by selling their garment to buy a sword meant they were to go garment-less, in other words, no clothes aka as naked? I'm sure you wouldn't draw that conclusion Deb.
So we must ask, did he mean a bladed weapon with which to harm people with? What do you think? ...and how would we understand these texts.....Matthew 5:38-40 Matthew 5:39

Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty good question. But get rea. The point isnt that they should go around naked but that if they dont have a sword it is important enough to sell your garment (or cloak) to buy one. Now in those days a persons cloak was their main garment. It was very important to have a cloak because then one could use the cloak as their main protection from the weather, the cold so a cloak functions also as a sleeping bag. As you can see the cloak was very important.

With the use of sell your cloak and buy a sword did not illustrate that God wants His people to walk around naked, but a simple illustration of how important it is to have a sword. You might need a sword more than a sleeping bag! It was very clear to the believers back then because they knew how important having a coak was!

Does that make sense to you?

Lambano said:

You might want to think that one through. Are you saying that Elijah himself had the power to generate fireballs coming down from the sky? Was that incident not just God-sanctioned, but God-committed, violence? The Bible isn't pretty sometimes.

Click to expand...

Elijah didn't create the fire. It was God who honoured his faith by sending the fire to consume the sacrifice.
However, the slaughter of the prophets of Baal was the result of Elijah's presumption. Elijah went too far engaging the slaughter.

quietthinker said:

Elijah didn't create the fire. It was God who honoured his faith by sending the fire to consume the sacrifice.

Click to expand...

Right. And God was quite capable of controlling the fire such that it would consume only the sacrifice and not boil the water in the safety trench and not torch the priests of Baal. He chose not to. Elijah had to deal with that. So do we.

MA2444 said:

That's actually a pretty good question. But get rea. The point isnt that they should go around naked but that if they dont have a sword it is important enough to sell your garment (or cloak) to buy one. Now in those days a persons cloak was their main garment. It was very important to have a cloak because then one could use the cloak as their main protection from the weather, the cold so a cloak functions also as a sleeping bag. As you can see the cloak was very important.

With the use of sell your cloak and buy a sword did not illustrate that God wants His people to walk around naked, but a simple illustration of how important it is to have a sword. You might need a sword more than a sleeping bag! It was very clear to the believers back then because they knew how important having a coak was!

Does that make sense to you?

Click to expand...

I ask myself, would Jesus have sanctioned Elijah's slaughter? I would have to say no.
God who does not change; Jesus who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow is the litmus test I use to get clarity on these accounts of violence, tacitly or overtly being sanctioned by God.

Satan endeavours to turn God into a Jekyll and Hyde kind of character in his attempts to undermine God's credibility.
Jesus came to us for the express purpose of revealing God's true character in the face of all the misrepresentations Satan has convinced men of throughout history.

We easily miss the body language, the idiomatic comments/ statements of Jesus and the cultural understandings of the day.

Yes, I think you have a point with the garment thing but as for acquiring a blade to threaten or use violence to save one's skin, this is not in line with the trajectory of Jesus' life or teachings.

Lambano said:

And you can add most of the Book of Revelation too. How about Joshua's conquest of Canaan, where God commanded His people to commit genocide?

Did you ever do one of those Bible studies showing where God either uses violence or authorizes His people to use violence? One of my favorites is 2 Kings 2:23-24:



(While this is on the surface a case of overreacting to a childish insult with violence, I would note that in an American court of law, this could well be considered a justifiable use of deadly force. The disparity of force represented by more than 42 hostile boys (we're not told what age; I'm assuming young teens) could reasonably be interpreted to be an imminent threat of death, grievous bodily harm, or rape, which is the legal criteria for justifiable use of deadly force here. Make sure you have a good lawyer. Not that God needs one. And I can just visualize prosecutor introducing the two bears in court as Exhibit A, the murder weapon.)

Click to expand...

And let's ask ourselves just what is the moral of this story?

One does not go around insulting one of God's top people, or you may just wake up dead or bleeding!

I don't understand how some people can think that God does not kill people when the need arises. He is a righteous and a just God and therein is the word study for that. But God is no respecter of persons so if He would protect and even gt a sort of vengance upon the Priest, then He would do the same thing for all Believers. Hasnt He made us all Kings and Priests? He even said Vengence is Mine, and I think that is due to the degree that He is Righteous and Just, much more than we can yet comprehend! He sent them into so many wars in the OT! When Goliath was trash talking Israel and their God...I bet God thought, Oh I so have this one, he will see! And He died that day. That was obviously God's hand at work. He was doing something with David at the time too and God required David to walk out onto that field and defend His name and His people.

Whoa! God might be more sensitive to insults than He is to people killing His people? He holds the keys to life and death but dagnabbit, I don't like people talking like that!?

There's even a warning in scripture that we should speak no evil on any man but instead to speak blessing and not cursing. I used to argue with those guys who talk down Prohets and Preachers that they don't like, but I hesitate to even get into it lately because that's basically gossiping, am I right? The OT makes it clear that God don't like Gossipers or murmuring. It's not my place to judge these people who do that either. Only the Lord, it says that too!

There really are false prophets in the world. Many of them. So it seems to me that if there are false prophets then there must be real prophets also. So why are prophets and prophecying talked about with such disdain everywhere? Some of them false men of God make it easy to see the falseness within them, however, those are still God's people that He wants us to learn to love and speak blessings about them rather than cursing them. So it seems to me that Gossiping is some sort of abomination to God. I'm not positive but I suspect that the 42 kids who walked away all beat up by the bear probably think the same at that point!

Whooops, shouldn't of done that!