My KJV Debate with Jeff Dollar
- Thread starter Bible Highlighter
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Nice to put a face to your name. I affirm what you say although, I have many different bibles but will check with the KJV as well. I learned on the KJV in 1991 when becoming a Christian.
I have saved this video to come back to later.
Thank you for sharing brother.
Thank you, Nancy. Yes, I believe it is important to use modern translations, dictionaries, and Greek/Hebrew tools, along with other aids, to properly understand the 1600s English in the KJV. I would encourage studying a modern Bible alongside the KJV in the privacy of one’s home while alone. However, when it comes to fellowship in a large building, a home, or Bible studies with other believers, I believe we should all speak the same thing (1 Corinthians 1:10). Meaning, I believe we should use the KJV if we are among other Christians.
While modern Bibles can be helpful, I believe they also present a danger by teaching many false doctrines. I have encountered Christians who believe false things because of them many times. Additionally, modern scholarship often seeks to redefine certain uncommon words in the KJV to favor Critical Text Bible readings, which is also problematic.
So, we must be very careful about what Modern Translations and modern scholarship claim these days.
To help define an archaic word in the KJV, I look to the context, cross-references, older English dictionaries, 17th-century English literature, and Greek/Hebrew literature usage of that word—while being mindful of translations or scholars who attempt to alter the meaning of some archaic words in the KJV, like the KJVER Translation, the NKJV, and Dr. Mark Ward.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy the video.
May God bless you, Nancy.
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Agreed. It is confusing to follow along in my KJ with a pastor reading from the NIV (my least favorite) or another modern version. I think in KJ and verses in my mind come out in KJ.
I am continuing now to finish your vid. Jeff Dollar is finishing up his rebuttal...IMHO, he doesn't have a leg to stand on and, he really is not (so far) addressing all you showed in your slides!
Looking forward to the questions.
Fine work brother!
God be with you!
Thank you so much for the kind words, Nancy.
I feel my opponent did not address my points, either.
May the Lord Jesus bless you greatly.
Okay, finished the video. It seemed that Jeff Dollar was not at all interested in how these modern translations have added and removed words, changing the whole doctrine. SMH. I have some friends and even family that have only used the modern translations, as well as paraphrased ones like, The Living Bible, The Message etc. They don't use bible study tools or dictionary's so, since they do not have the earlier manuscripts, they wouldn't even recognize the imposters over the real thing.
Also, we do have some lazy Christians who do NOT "Study to show themselves approved". I do understand though that there are many who do not have the mental capability to dig deeply, and these I believe God will speak to through His Spirit...?
There was allot packed into this video. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for sharing.
In His Name,
Nancy
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
But what if all the other Christians are using the NIV? Bringing out a KJV only causes confusion. Hardly anyone in the UK uses the KJV these days - I rarely see a copy.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I've read and studied the KJV so much and only quote from it. I can pick up any bible translation, and read from it, then say, this doesn't agree with what the KJV says. I've done that in my Sunday school class. I almost asked what bible someone had read a passage from, because I could not follow along. That happened four years ago at another bible study and some of us asked what bible you are reading from, and It was a passion bible paraphrase. I say, if the language changes so much, from the KJV, it can't be a good translation. for instance, you can have a room of people with NIV, NKJ, NASB, NRSV, ESV, and CSB bibles and most everyone can follow along. Bring in a message bible paraphrase and nobody can follow along.
Bible Highlighter did a wonderful job in the debate (the video). The modern bibles have many very important verses either missing, or partially missing; changing the whole meaning. I know the video is long, but I watched in increments.
Start the video at 23:20, this starts Highlighter's slide show showing comparisons and the many errors in many of the modern translations. His opponent Jeff Dollar even said he tossed his NIV into his fireplace, he is a pastor.
Of course, the rest of the debate is very good as well.
Doesn't mean one has to toss their modern bibles in the fire though, lol...we can still have several different versions with our study but, study tools are easier.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I thru away all but one translation of my NIV, the 1984. The NIV changed so much, bowing to the woke crowd and removing the word "fornication", and phrases that "tone down" other sins. Most other bibles didn't do this yet. The Geneva bible tells it like it is and the KJV followed the same but made it more readable believe or not.
Yes, I noticed all of that too. I recently purchased the Geneva bible from 1560, it is kind of fun figuring out the u's are v's and all the other words, I love this kind of stuff! I've also over the years bought the NASB, NET, NLT, ESV, and a couple of the paraphrased ones but, I always am drawn back to KJV.
Exactly , it is the same for me too . My understanding just works that way .
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
After over a decade of (KJ) Bible reading I find myself consulting modern versions less and less…
Other than satisfying my minds curiosity and the appearance of “increasing knowledge” I find that it just adds wasted time to my reading.
The same with Commentaries…
Just vain exercises.
The King James Holy Bible changed my life when I just read it alone without being double minded about what other versions and commentators said.
I find myself going back to my first love of just listening to God through his holy word.
Other than satisfying my minds curiosity and the appearance of “increasing knowledge” I find that it just adds wasted time to my reading.
The same with Commentaries…
Just vain exercises.
The King James Holy Bible changed my life when I just read it alone without being double minded about what other versions and commentators said.
I find myself going back to my first love of just listening to God through his holy word.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
When I had my cassette player in my car, I listened to the KJV narrated by Alexander Scourby while driving. You want to feel the KJV in spoken word, Scourby does it. The KJV is a supernatural bible when a Christian sits down to read it, the KJV seems to speak to you and when you need a verse to help you, it seems to jump out at you.
I use this KJV site here all the time and you can listen too ! Max McLean does a very good job of reading the KJV out loud .
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org
Acts chapter 1 KJV (King James Version)
Acts chapter 1 KJV (King James Version)
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org
Yes, that is my assessment, as well.
Jeff Dollar is for the Majority Text position.
This is the view that one looks to the majority of extant Greek manuscripts (5,800 Byzantine Greek manuscripts that is in existence today) so as to determine what are God's words. But there has never been a perfect collated Greek text for the Majority Text. There are many manuscripts that have not been added to this so-called Majority Text printed edition today (unlike the TR or Textus Receptus). In other words, because 1 John 5:7 in the KJV is not in the Majority of Greek manuscript witnesses today, he does not accept it. Granted, Jeff has to ignore all the other evidences for the Johannine Comma (i.e., 1 John 5:7 KJV), though.
Not all Majority Text believers are the same. Dean Burgon was Majority Text but he was appalled at Westcott and Hort's English Revised Version (ERV or RV) because it changed the Textus Receptus Greek for their so-called KJV update. Westcott and Hort snuck in their own Greek text into the KJV readings of the ERV. Westcott and Hort's 1881 Greek text was based on the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts. These two manuscripts are still given priority in the Nestle and Aland Greek text apparatus that underlies all Modern English Bibles today. A critical text advocate, named Epp, did a comparative study between the Westcott and Hort Greek (1881), and the Nestle and Aland 28th edition and said there is barely any difference. So, the Greek used today is still basically the Westcott and Hort Greek. This was an artificial never-before-seen Greek text that was never used by the church until 1881. This is what Dean William Burgon was trying to expose.
Looking at the New Testament Greek, there are two lines of Bibles.
#1. The Traditional Text or Received Text (Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza, KJV Translators), and
#2. the Critical Text (Westcott and Hort, Nestle and Aland).
One line is pure, and the other is corrupted. Most Modern English Bibles today are based on the Critical Text (including the paraphrased ones).
But at the end of the day, it is a spiritual issue.
It takes a revelation from God to reveal this to them and they have to be open to such a truth.
I think if a person is a truth seeker or a detective type Christian who truly cares about real truth, they will know of this truth.
I believe God is amazing and He is capable of changing some people who may be initially stubborn or hard hearted in this area.
Now, the devil is out to destroy 2 Timothy 2:15 in the KJV. The enemy wants nothing more than for God's people to not study His Word and be destroyed for lack of knowledge.
This video captures the war on words we are up against.
Note: Brandon Peterson does mostly put out Biblical Numerics videos defending the perfection of the KJV. If you are offended by Biblical Numerics, this video does not promote them (to my knowledge). Also, please check out his videos that are not related to Biblical Numerics on his channel, as well. They are still a huge blessing regardless. I know Nick Sayers, and the larger KJV Community at large are strongly against Biblical Numerics. So, I do not strive to promote such a thing anymore. Personally, I do not lead my life by numbers. I see Biblical Numerics as merely evidence that the KJV is perfect or divine and nothing more.
Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed it.
I plan on releasing my Powerpoint slide(s) as a free download once I update some things on it.
The purpose of this is so that a person can check the textual differences in the doctrinal section or look up the verses that are in my slide, etcetera.
I also plan on uploading a longer video presentation of my slide with a more well rehearsed reading of it.
I will take the time to explain more things in my slide.
I also plan to upload a video where I critique certain things my opponent (Jeff Dollar) said that I did not get time to address.
After this, I will then go back to writing my sub-articles for my upcoming free PDF writeup titled, "150 Reasons for the KJV Being the Pure Word of God for Today."
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"Westcott and Hort snuck in their own Greek text into the KJV readings of the ERV. Westcott and Hort's 1881 Greek text was based on the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts. These two manuscripts are still given priority in the Nestle and Aland Greek text apparatus that underlies all Modern English Bibles today. A critical text advocate, named Epp, did a comparative study between the Westcott and Hort Greek (1881), and the Nestle and Aland 28th edition and said there is barely any difference. So, the Greek used today is still basically the Westcott and Hort Greek. This was an artificial never-before-seen Greek text that was never used by the church until 1881. This is what Dean William Burgon was trying to expose."
Are these not koine Greek? Sorry, I've much to chew on here, lol. It will take time to sort all of this out but, from what I do for sure understand, despite King James's controversy in his day, commissioning the KJV was, IMO, his greatest accomplishment.
"I believe God is amazing and He is capable of changing some people who may be initially stubborn or hard hearted in this area.
Now, the devil is out to destroy 2 Timothy 2:15 in the KJV. The enemy wants nothing more than for God's people to not study His Word and be destroyed for lack of knowledge."
That is very evident to me seeing that not one church I have attended in decades ever used the KJV...even a reformed Baptist church I attended for over two years...I was not at all happy there as folks were not so friendly, but I tried despite not being a fan of Calvinism.
I will now watch the video, thank you!
I use this KJV site here all the time and you can listen too ! Max McLean does a very good job of reading the KJV out loud .
Acts chapter 1 KJV (King James Version)
Acts chapter 1 KJV (King James Version)
I use this site to see the original 1611 printed edition.
I did not know that the audio version was this good.
Thank you for sharing that feature from this website.
If you are interested, Brandon Peterson offers for free (unless you want to donate) for a descent list of different digital KJV editions.
Here is the link:
Brandon's Digital Collection of Historic KJBs and Other Texts (PDFs)
A digital collection of PDFs used by Brandon Peterson (@TruthisChrist) to locate when patterns first appeared in the King James Bible.100% free to download! Please enter ($0) in the price field.Includes: Brandon's Collection of 40+ Historic KJBs Brandon's Collection of 25+ Non-KJB Biblical Texts...
Note: I have not downloaded this yet, but it looks to be a pretty good collection.
Yes. I agree. Scourby is really awesome.
I have to talk more to a friend to get the other ones I heard that are good, too.
