So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?
----------------------------------------------

The divinity of Christ is being celebrated on these sites and forums like people moving back and forth on a stage in ignorant jubilation, throwing out endless amounts of presents to their audience, by many who believe a God with more that one personality.

Do they know what they are talking about?

I wager not...

Tell me, do you know what you speak of...can anybody out there provide an intelligent response...what does the divinity of Jesus really mean....? Is there scripture that supports this claim? Is it really true?

Thanks..APAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lambano

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,550
11,674
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?
I'm glad somebody is asking that question.

One of my teachers said that any attempt to drill down into the Trinitarian doctrine inevitably results in a Christological heresy, including (but not limited to) Arianism, Monarchal Modalism, Polytheism, Subordinationism, Atonement heresies, and few other -isms. And we'll add schizophrenia-ism to that list.

A related (and in my opinion, better) question is, how should we personally relate to God the Father and to Jesus Christ His Son?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: amadeus and APAK

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, and there are definitions of divinity, and the one usually already chose by most in 'Christian' circles for Jesus is the full-bore/up definition of being God, the deity itself.

It is said that Jesus is divine that refers to his divine being, personage and nature, although when they speak to his humanity, it becomes a deliberate double-standard. They admit to his human nature in his human body, although they deliberately deny his human personage and being. And when folks really understand this critical point they either brush it aside, or find another way to sidestep it and cover it up with roses and chocolates and tea. Nothing to see here...
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,550
11,674
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, and there are definitions of divinity, and the one usually already chose by most in 'Christian' circles for Jesus is the full-bore/up definition of being God, the deity itself.

And then there's those, like my friend, sister in Christ, and fellow prayer warrior, who end up treating the Father and the Son as the same Person, which is NOT what the Trinity doctrine says. One of my pet peeves. They are not interchangeable. (Are they?)
 

Bob

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2023
524
495
63
Tucson, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you all for your posts.

Please help me understand why this question is important.

Also, From scripture—Colossians 2:9 : "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form."

So, apparently this verse is open to more than one interpretation?

Blessings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
7,667
2,628
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you all for your posts.

Please help me understand why this question is important.

Also, From scripture—Colossians 2:9 : "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form."

So, apparently this verse is open to more than one interpretation?

Blessings.
This passage is often misunderstood. Many Christians mistakenly believe that Paul is referring to the totality or fullness of the Godhead. However, this is incorrect. Paul is actually discussing the fullness of his Ecclesia, asserting that all of its members are "in Christ." The term "pleroma," meaning "fullness," refers to the group of people who will receive eternal life and live with Christ forever. This group includes not only his followers but also believers from the Old Testament, such as Moses, David, Isaiah, and many others. Even the Old Testament saints are included and exist as one body.
 
  • Like
Reactions: APAK

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And then there's those, like my friend, sister in Christ, and fellow prayer warrior, who end up treating the Father and the Son as the same Person, which is NOT what the Trinity doctrine says. One of my pet peeves. They are not interchangeable. (Are they?)
No they are not interchangeable according to their doctrine and model of belief. They are of different personalities, now if a personality still means something of value and identity.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A another interesting question does arise when the Father had to give Jesus 'life in himself.' If Jesus was supposedly full-up divine, the same as the Father who is the one God, then I see a clear and obvious irregularity here. How does one solve it? I mean the Son is mean to be of the same essence as the Father, right?! Maybe this is why the earliest so-called 'church' fathers believed the Father was superior, of a different substance as Jesus his Son, and for a great reason......

Tertullian stated that the Father is greater than the Son, and yet he also did affirmed that Jesus is God 'of a kind,' clarifying that the Father's greater position did not imply a separation or division in the 'level' of divinity. Similarly, Ignatius of Antioch, in his Letter to the Ephesians, acknowledged Jesus as God while also recognizing the Father's supremacy. Additionally, Irenaeus, in his writings, emphasized the distinction between the Father and the Son, noting the Father's greater position.

How did they think in terms of substance and the divinity of the Son of God and his Father? Some were confident they were the same, others were unsure. So the Father is 'greater' or even the source of divinity that others, including Christ, who can partake in it, as genuine believers also can? Thus another definition can be formed for the divinity of Christ. Maybe he possessed the divine characteristics or attributes of his Father, only!

As scripture says, his Father was resident within his Son of course. This mosaic, image and mental form of the Father of his own divinity was revealed in Jesus. We saw his glory.....
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,600
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A another interesting question does arise when the Father had to give Jesus 'life in himself.' If Jesus was supposedly full-up divine, the same as the Father who is the one God, then I see a clear and obvious irregularity here. How does one solve it?
When one starts with a flawed premise, a problematic conclusion is predictable.

Descartes observed that:
  1. If you start in certainty, you will end in uncertainty: AND
  2. if you can be content to begin in uncertainty, you will end in certainty.
I do not feel obligated to explain with certainty things beyond what Scripture reveals - in the beginning of Creation, in End Times, how Jesus was resurrected, etc.

It’s enough that there is one true God of the Bible, whose eternal name is YHWH - not Jesus. God gave me life. It doesn’t make me God. Same with Jesus.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC and APAK

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When one starts with a flawed premise, a problematic conclusion is predictable.

Descartes observed that:
  1. If you start in certainty, you will end in uncertainty: AND
  2. if you can be content to begin in uncertainty, you will end in certainty.
I do not feel obligated to explain with certainty things beyond what Scripture reveals - in the beginning of Creation, in End Times, how Jesus was resurrected, etc.

It’s enough that there is one true God of the Bible, whose eternal name is YHWH - not Jesus. God gave me life. It doesn’t make me God. Same with Jesus.
Could not say it as concisely as you just did. Yes, it definitely does not make me or you God, indeed, as Christ also.. Amen
and....
I'm glad the Father and also his Son Jesus/Yahshua loved us so much to the point of his Son's death into new life, the gateway for all his followers to enter into amen! I have chills of joy just writing this line, with happy music in my earphones....:woohoo!::dusted:
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Amen Thomas!
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Amen Thomas!
Hey Jack count on you to come in to the wrong class. This one is about divinity and its definition(s) related to God and his Son

While you're here, what is your take on the divinity of Christ? Did Thomas for example believe his lord was divine or only his God?
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hey Jack count on you to come in to the wrong class. This one is about divinity and its definition(s) related to God and his Son

While you're here, what is your take on the divinity of Christ? Did Thomas for example believe his lord was divine or only his God?
Jesus is God. Why does that upset you? God is not 'divine'???
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If Jesus is God, then who is his son?
Hebrews 1:8-10
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." 10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
 

Bob

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2023
524
495
63
Tucson, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you all for your posts.

What about Matthew 1:22?

All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

And again I ask: how will one’s belief about Jesus’ divinity drive one’s daily social behavior? Does either belief affect whether and how much I love God and my neighbor?

Blessings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
11,416
4,677
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Can’t answer my simple question. LOL
It is quite simple.

Gen 1:26 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness"!

Father and Son! Just like I already quoted Heb 1, God called His Son "God"!

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus is God!
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you all for your posts.

Please help me understand why this question is important.

Also, From scripture—Colossians 2:9 : "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form."

So, apparently this verse is open to more than one interpretation?

Blessings.
Sorry Bob, did not yet back with you...until now

It's seems you have the verse Col 2:9 locked in as a prooftext as the key to the definition of divinity for Jesus - as God Almighty? Nothing could be further from the truth...for these and other reasons..a little long-winded..I would reread my post again to maybe grasp what I'm saying here..

For your way of thinking, Colossians 2:9 basically rests, or lives or dies on two words: θεοτης (theotēs, 'deity') and κατοικεω (katoikeō, 'to dwell').

theotēs =>divinity or divine nature..used only once in the entire Bible

We must look at the context therefore to know how Paul used this Greek word for his audience and the local culture.

Also, Katoikeō (to dwell) does not imply that the Godhood (whatever that really means) inherently dwells in Christ, so therefore Christ is inherently God.

Katoikeō is also used to describe the spirit of God dwelling within believers (see James 4:5) and Christ dwelling within believers (see Ephesians 3:17).
Similarly, God is said to "dwell" (katoikein) in Jerusalem (Psalm 67:17 LXX), but he doesn't inherently dwell there.

Additionally, the word theotēs does not imply being God (YHWH), although it can refer to a lesser level of divinity.
Although this word is a hapax legomenon in the New Testament, in contemporary Koine Greek texts theotēs describes a secondary, derived divinity which can be given and taken away (e.g., from demigods of Greek myth) (Plutarch, De defectu oraculorum 10 [415C]; Lucian, Icaromenippus 9). Also the expression 'dia theotēs' => for religious reasons...

So, in Colossians 2:9, Paul isn't saying that Jesus is inherently God (YHWH); instead, he seems to be saying that the quality of divinity somehow dwells within Jesus. In or alongside his own human spirit and in his mind.

It can easily be best understood by reflecting this same reality written in John 1:32: "I saw the Spirit coming down as a dove, and it remained upon him." And also in John 3:34: "The one whom God sent speaks the words of God, because God gives the spirit to him without measure."

God gave Jesus authority to perform all types of miracles and even forgive sins. He was filled (without measure) with the Spirit of God.
So therefore, Jesus had the fullness of God's divine nature within him. He literally walked, ate and slept with it as his invisible power.

And it may surprise you that every genuine believer also has this same 'fullness' of the God's divine nature in them (see 2 Peter 1:4) as Christ (because of Christ's indwelling).

(Eph 3:19) and to truly know and understand the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

And of course we are not God either...or of his divine nature either, intrinsically...

Further, this 'fullness' is a partial possession, meaning one can only have a portion of it. And it make nonsense to say the fullness of something/someone that is indivisible, as God is this one. This is why you never will read the fullness of the Father, God, because by definition he is already intrinsically full of himself, his own nature already. So verse 9 is not talking about Jesus the Christ being God with his divinity at all. It all about God GIVING Christ part of his fullness for his purpose here.

Read Col 1:18-20..

(Col 1:18) And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; so that in all things he might have the pre-eminence.
(Col 1:19) For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fullness dwell,
(Col 1:20) and through him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross- yes, to reconcile all things through him, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens. The Context of Paul’s Preaching

And then John 3:34-35 for more clarification.
(Joh 3:34) For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He does not give him the Spirit by measure.
(Joh 3:35) The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

To cut this short....

If Christ were God Almighty of his level of divinity, then it would make nonsense to say 'the fullness' of God dwelt within him, because he being God already.

Think about that one for a few minutes...

last note....Paul was saying to the Colossians, stop with your philosophies and traditions, look to Christ as he is complete IN God, In HIS FULNESS, In HIS divinity and IN HIS power. We draw from Christ this way IN our walk IN Christ.

Blessings...APAK
 
Status
Not open for further replies.