WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT

Doug · Jan 24, 2025

[John 3:3, 5 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ... 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Only Israel could be born again. Israel was born of God as his firstborn son. Christ was saying they had to be born again by the spirit.

[Exo 4:22 KJV] 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn:

The verses above in John 3 speak of the Kingdom of God.
The kingdom is found in the prophets:

[Isa 9:7 KJV] 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

[Dan 7:18 KJV] 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Jesus was saying the prophetic kingdom was at hand:

[Mat 4:17, 23 KJV] 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. ... 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

The kingdom is described in the prophets
Israel will be restored:

[Deu 30:3 KJV] 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

[Deu 30:5 KJV] 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

[Isa 11:9 KJV] 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

[Isa 56:7 KJV] 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

[Isa 65:25 KJV] 25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

The Lord will make a new covenant with Israel:

[Jer 31:31, 33 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: ... 33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The new covenant will be the water and the spirit that Jesus said was needed to enter the kingdom on earth. To see the kingdom in John 3:3 entails seeing the kingdom by being in it:

[Eze 36:24-27 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]

Writer · Jan 29, 2025

Jesus is referring to the Circumcision. To be born of water means to be born of this world. Peter says that the world, before the 1st day was created was completly engulfed in water. "...and the Spirit of the God moved upon the waters of the deep". You see the water, and you see the spirit. Adam was born of the earth and his nature was Carnal. To be born of the Spirit means we are now born of God and our nature is spiritual.

Verily · Jan 29, 2025

He was talking to Nicodemus there who was a man of the Pharisees and a teacher of Isael

And being of the sect of the Pharisees they reject the baptism of John (which was of water)

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Water and Spirit

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Ronald Nolette · Jan 29, 2025

Doug you are over spiritualizing your response way too much.

The truth is much much simpler.

Jesus was speaking of a natural birth and a spiritual birth

It was common among the nations to call a regular birth being born of water (we even allude to it today when a woman says her water broke. water birth is simply being physically born. spiritual birth is the new birth which all are required to undergo by placing their trust in Jesus' death and resurrection.
2 Cor 5_17: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 2

King James Version

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Jesus even defined the two births in John 3.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Hey You! · Feb 4, 2025

Saint Paul tells us what Jesus Meant...

Titus 3:5 says, "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit".

Explanation

This verse describes how God saved people through mercy, not because of their good deeds. The verse also mentions the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, which is a reference to spiritual rebirth...

ScottA · Feb 4, 2025

So many speculate leaning on their own understanding. Not a good practice.

@Ronald Nolette has it correct above: Water birth is natural birth, of those waters below the firmament, while spiritual birth is born (again) from above of the spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 15:46

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Verily · Feb 5, 2025

John the baptist was born of woman (natural birth) but who also was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb (Luke 1:15) and he said he still had need that Jesus baptize him (Mat 3:14)

Verily · Feb 5, 2025

When it says Jesus came by water and blood, in that order, does water there refer to his coming by woman there?

mailmandan · Feb 11, 2025

In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Jesus connects living water here with eternal life.

If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

Writer · Feb 12, 2025

mailmandan said:
In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Jesus connects living water here with eternal life.

If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

"God is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever". In Genesis 1 we read; "and the Spirit of God moved upon the waters of the deap". God's Holy Spirit moved UP-ON the water, showing that God's Holy Spirit is the greater baptism being that it is above it, and therefore God's Spirit touched the land mass beneath it. In so doing, the land was sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and only then could God "separate" the waters from the land and also create "NEW LIFE". Thus we are now a NEW Creation through the Holy Spirit, which didn't happen with just water. Thanks be to Jesus and Him crucified.

No matter how water is percieved, it's place is never equal to or greater than the Holy Spirit.

GodsGrace · Feb 14, 2025

ScottA said:
So many speculate leaning on their own understanding. Not a good practice.

@Ronald Nolette has it correct above: Water birth is natural birth, of those waters below the firmament, while spiritual birth is born (again) from above of the spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Great connection Scott !
Here's my thought on this....I've never been 100% certain, but I tend to go with
physical birth and then spiritual birth - makes more sense..here's why:

John 3:4-5
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot * enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Verse 4 Even N understood it to be physical when he asks how a man could return to the womb.

Verse 5 Jesus says BORN OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT.
If we receive the Holy Spirit in Baptism....Jesus' words would be like saying:
Born of Spirit and the Spirit. It would just be the same idea stated twice.
John the B said AFTER ME WILL COME ONE THAT WILL BAPTIZE WITH FIRE AND SPIRIT..that seems to confirm my belief re the Spirit being in the water.

Verse 6 Jesus says WHATIS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH...WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.
That would seem to clinch the deal.
First physical birth.
Then spiritual birth.

Scott Downey · Feb 14, 2025

Verily said:
When it says Jesus came by water and blood, in that order, does water there refer to his coming by woman there?

NO.

It refers to the crucifixion, His death opened the way for you to enter heaven and have eternal life
Water and Blood Proves HE died, When you die your blood clots and separates into clear water plasma and blood.

John 19
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.

Some cults and false religions claim Christ did not die on the cross and was not resurrected.

1 john 5

The Certainty of God’s Witness

6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness [b]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of [c]God which He has testified of His Son.

Acts 17, the testimony of God is He raised Christ from the dead, because He really did die on the cross.

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

rwb · Feb 14, 2025

When Christ speaks of entering into the Kingdom of God, telling mankind to enter there they must first be born of (living) water and Spirit, He tells us this is how we are born again. Just as being born of the Spirit is not natural, physical birth, so too being born (again) of water is not natural, physical water through physical birth. The living water is Christ, the Word! He tells us that all who drink of the living water that only He can give, shall never die.

Romans 10:8-10 (KJV) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Without faith that comes from hearing the Word of God (Gospel of Christ) man is without faith to believe in Christ for salvation. When we hear the Word of the Lord and believe on Him, we shall are baptized (living water) by the Holy Spirit and have entered (spiritually) into the Kingdom of God.

Acts 11:16 (KJV) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Ephesians 5:26 (KJV) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

John 4:10-11 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

John 7:37-39 (KJV) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Revelation 21:6 (KJV) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:1 (KJV) And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 22:17 (KJV) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Ritajanice · Feb 14, 2025

Born of water...flesh birth.

Born of The Spirit....supernatural Living spiritual birth, where Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children..I couldn’t believe in God, without being birthed in the Spirit, I know God in my spirit as it’s Born Again...

Flesh birth first.

As an adult I became Born Again, that is the supernatural spiritual living birth.

Verily · Feb 14, 2025

Writer said:
Jesus is referring to the Circumcision. To be born of water means to be born of this world. Peter says that the world, before the 1st day was created was completly engulfed in water. "...and the Spirit of the God moved upon the waters of the deep". You see the water, and you see the spirit. Adam was born of the earth and his nature was Carnal. To be born of the Spirit means we are now born of God and our nature is spiritual.

Similarly both are shown here as well

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Behold · Feb 14, 2025

Jesus was making the distinction between your earth birth and God's spiritual birth.

1.) The earth birth, is when your mother's water broke, and out you came..........= "born of water".

and now that you are here..........

2.) Jesus said.........."you must be...........Born........AGAIN".........

And this is God birthing you by His Spirit so that you become a citizen of heaven "in Christ"......."one with God'.... A CHRISTian...A Child of God.

Verily · Feb 14, 2025

Scott Downey said:
NO.

It refers to the crucifixion, His death opened the way for you to enter heaven and have eternal life
Water and Blood Proves HE died, When you die your blood clots and separates into clear water plasma and blood.

John 19
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.

Some cults and false religions claim Christ did not die on the cross and was not resurrected.

1 john 5

The Certainty of God’s Witness
6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness [b]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of [c]God which He has testified of His Son.

Acts 17, the testimony of God is He raised Christ from the dead, because He really did die on the cross.

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

So you believe Jesus coming by water and blood is that which is shown on the cross and not necessarily water (by woman) or water (by John) but those the two parts that bear witness in the earth on the cross there after he has died?

Verily · Feb 14, 2025

rwb said:
John 7:37-39 (KJV) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Here more specifically, would indicate the Spirit is both (water and Spirit) and so would indicate that water is not of woman if I am understanding correctly.

Verily · Feb 14, 2025

Ritajanice said:
Born of water...flesh birth.

Born of The Spirit....supernatural Living spiritual birth, where Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children..I couldn’t believe in God, without being birthed in the Spirit, I know God in my spirit as it’s Born Again...

Flesh birth first.

As an adult I became Born Again, that is the supernatural spiritual living birth.

Even Israel needed Jesus to be manifested by John's baptism (by water) though

John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

And Jesus did come by this way as well.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

So it plays into things, Jesus coming out to John in respects to water here as much as Jesus being made manifest to Israel by John baptizing him with water (where we do see the Spirit descend and remain upon him).

Ritajanice · Feb 14, 2025

Verily said:
Even Israel needed Jesus to manifested by John's baptism (by water) though

John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

And Jesus did come by this way as well.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

So it plays into things, Jesus coming out to John in respects to water here as much as Jesus being made manifest to Israel by John baptizing him with water (where we do see the Spirit descend and remain upon him).

I don’t understand what you are talking about here.

I understand that we must be Born Again to, see the Kingdom Of God...I understand the word, the way God has brought me to understand it....I don’t understand you, or your interpretation/ understanding of scripture..sorry.

This was how I became Born Of The Spirit.

As the Spirit was indwelling my body..he did this.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....it was a supernatural Living spiritual rebirth.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 3:3-8

King James Version

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

WHAT DID JESUS MEAN TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT

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