quietthinker
Well-Known Member
It's easy to get tangled in unproductive debate. I hope to avoid it when I become conscious it's happening.
I am also learning that if folk choose not to hear, I can't make them. Maybe I'm a slow learner?
From the pen of Ellen White
- Thread starter Brakelite
- Start date
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I am also learning that if folk choose not to hear, I can't make them. Maybe I'm a slow learner?
I think if he wants to promote his mystic, start his own thread.
I didn't start this thread to promote Ellen White, but rather to show that what she wrote is a very thoughtful refutation of the presumptuous and uninformed opinions many have of her... and her church.
Magdala
Active Member
The discussion that you started with me wasn't unproductive, but rather unnecessary. Again, firstly, in post #240, Brakelite didn't say "No no no. Not going there" as in he was done with our discussion. He was referring to his decision to not finish completing my challenge that he accepted by reading all five volumes of Maria Valtorta's The Poem of the Man-God: "I don't need to read any further. I reject her as a prophet of God. Visionary maybe, but Satan can give visions. Loyola and classic example. No. No. No. Not going there." Therefore, my reply post (#241) wasn't "not taking no for an answer". But, how could you have not already known that after having read his post "several times"?...
Secondly, also in Brakelite's post #240, he claimed that the excerpt he read in The Poem of the Man-God was of Satan, but he didn't provide support for that in the same post, nor did he provide any in response after I replied (post #241). Also, you didn't answer my question when I asked if you would accept that conduct from me or anyone else on this forum.
You said, "To all reading this thread, I challenge you to read those 3 books and then return here and explain why Ellen G. White is a false prophet". It's not coercion to complete a challenge one chooses to accept and finish, regardless of what it entails. I challenged you to read all five volumes by Maria Valtorta. You accepted my challenge and you should've finished it, regardless of the content you read, because the challenge was to read all five volumes before passing judgement, the same rules you set in your challenge for others. You displayed your prejudice when you stopped reading the moment you read something taught in Catholicism, then passed a negative judgment before completion of the challenge. Are you afraid that if you complete the challenge and read all five volumes that you'll magically become a Catholic??
You say that what you read conflicts with Scripture because you'd rather believe something else, and think its impossible that you could be wrong in your understanding about Mary and other subjects. But, when push comes to shove, you can't actually explain why what you read conflicts with Scripture, whether using Scripture or not. You read an excerpt and immediately said that it's from Satan. In response, I took the time to explain why it's not. What did I get in reply about it? Crickets. Nothing. Why? Because what you read is the truth, and you can't show that it's not, but it's not what you'd rather believe, and so you say it's automatically from Satan without any evidence for it.
Throughout this thread you have been quoting, advocating and defending someone that you believe is a Christian visionary and mystic: Ellen G. White, because there are those who have uninformed opinions of her. I quote, advocate and defend the Christian visionary and mystic Maria Valtorta, because there are those who have uninformed opinions of her, including you. You would no longer have an uninformed opinion if you took the time to become informed, but you'd rather remain uninformed and give presumptuous opinions about her, just like the people who give presumptuous and uninformed opinions about Ellen G. White which you don't like.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
My pleasure. It's not an ordinary article from Mrs. White. It's worth a very thoughtful read, answering some especially profound questions. I actually had to have a few things pointed out to me before I spotted them.
I had roughly the same experience. I was too poor to even pay attention but I had to have some of those books that were being quoted. I think I paid $2 each for mine in 1990 for the big blue ones with the color illustrations. It's interesting that this is experience is duplicated halfway around the world—really makes you think, doesn't it?
I'll go you one better, perhaps:
Just read little "Thoughts From The Mount Of Blessing" and try to walk away unfazed.
:)
Hobie
Well-Known Member
If they read just let's say, Steps to Christ or Desire of Ages, it would change many a mind..
Christian? Maybe, maybe not. But the dogma, the immaculate conception, made up I think in the late 19th century in the minds of of the same people who have given us dogma like indulgences, purgatory, eternal torment, the immortality of the soul, and Sunday sacredness, sacred relics and numerous other superstitions, none of which can be supported by scripture except by inference, tells me all I need to know about your mystic without reading through 5 volumes of heresy and nonsense about the Mother of Jesus who is dead and buried somewhere perhaps near Ephesus. Goodness knows what she had to say about Jesus. I don't want to know.
I don't need to read the book of Mormon to know that the LDS system is equally as riddled with strange beliefs as your own. As i said, I dummy need to swim the Arctic to know is cold. And I didn't accept your challenge. I said, quote, I was pondering taking up your challenge, and thinking, I'm a gold miner, not a silver miner, but the Lord said in my spirit, go to the link and see what you will find. So I did. I read the introduction, and the next 3 paragraphs. That was enough. God doesn't need to make me unwell these days I hear Him when He speaks, and in those first few paragraphs I found all i need to come back here and state, unequivocally, this woman is not receiving anything from God, but from Satan.
In other words, I accepted the Lord's instruction to take s look. I did. I'm satisfied.
Anyway, this thread isn't about your mystic. Start your own thread.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
Mystics have nothing to do with God's Word as you can see with they come up with, to say nothing about God's truth..
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
As a matter of principle and not insult, I would say 'don't feed the trolls and they won't come to eat.' (and you are being trolled—it's actually turning into repetitious spam at this point).
I know how much easier it is said than done, but the net effect is that we just end up micro-trampling each others' religious liberty.
I've been on Facebook quite a bit lately because of lots of family stuff going on and I just can't believe the way my brethren are behaving over there these days. I can't post much of anything faith-related without getting caught in the middle of a raging red-blue game. Oftentimes, the most thoughtful things seem to invoke the most wrath, it seems. Successful appeals are few and far between.
Christ is coming very soon.
:)
Magdala
Active Member
Hey, Barn!
Firstly, I know that you're just coming to the rescue of your friend by making me the problem to give him an "out" and save face.
Secondly, I have no reason to troll him. I've been speaking to him in all seriousness. And, if he didn't ignore things I said, then I wouldn't have to repeat those things would I?
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All who have a sense of their deep soul poverty, who feel that they have nothing good in themselves, may find righteousness and strength by looking unto Jesus.... He bids you exchange your poverty for the riches of His grace. We are not worthy of God's love, but Christ, our surety, is worthy, and is abundantly able to save all who shall come unto Him. Whatever may have been your past experience, however discouraging your present circumstances, if you will come to Jesus just as you are, weak, helpless, and despairing, our compassionate Saviour will meet you a great way off, and will throw about you His arms of love and His robe of righteousness. AG 9.5
Those who choose deception will easily find it. Men can have truth or error, light or darkness, according to their preference. But to practice a wrong course will never convert error into truth. However sincere men may be in their practice of deception, they cannot be justified in an evil course. Many will pursue the same course as did the unbelieving Jews—misinterpret the Scriptures while claiming to believe them. While professing to keep God's commandments they taught for doctrines the commandments of men. The Christian world in this age is following the very same course. Many will not open their eyes to see truth and are enshrouded in as dense a cloud of deception as were the Jews. They believe themselves righteous as did the Jews who perished in their sins.
Saul was not imbued with the Spirit of God when he persecuted the saints who believed in Jesus. It was true he was inspired with religious zeal, but it was not the inspiration of heaven or of true religion; it was the zeal that animates many religionists of today to cause distress to the sons and daughters of God.
Saul was as sincere as a man could possibly be in his false religious ideas. He imprisoned the believers, caused them to be scourged, to be put in the stocks, and to be killed. He consented to the death of Stephen, and took charge of the clothes of those who were stoning him. But the Lord Jesus revealed Himself to Saul and asked him, "Why persecutest thou me?" From his pale and terrified lips came the words, "Who art thou, Lord, and the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." [Acts 9:4, 5.] Saul had been very conscientious in his attitude toward the Christian church, but it was an erroneous conscientiousness that led him to take his stand on Satan's side instead of on the Lord's side.
In this age many are zealous in a similar manner. They have false religious views and manifest the same spirit, persecuting Christ in the person of His saints. It is as true today as it was in the time of Christ that "The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not." [John 1:5.] 9LtMs, Ms 99, 1894, par. 14 - 9LtMs, Ms 99, 1894, par. 17
Saul was not imbued with the Spirit of God when he persecuted the saints who believed in Jesus. It was true he was inspired with religious zeal, but it was not the inspiration of heaven or of true religion; it was the zeal that animates many religionists of today to cause distress to the sons and daughters of God.
Saul was as sincere as a man could possibly be in his false religious ideas. He imprisoned the believers, caused them to be scourged, to be put in the stocks, and to be killed. He consented to the death of Stephen, and took charge of the clothes of those who were stoning him. But the Lord Jesus revealed Himself to Saul and asked him, "Why persecutest thou me?" From his pale and terrified lips came the words, "Who art thou, Lord, and the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." [Acts 9:4, 5.] Saul had been very conscientious in his attitude toward the Christian church, but it was an erroneous conscientiousness that led him to take his stand on Satan's side instead of on the Lord's side.
In this age many are zealous in a similar manner. They have false religious views and manifest the same spirit, persecuting Christ in the person of His saints. It is as true today as it was in the time of Christ that "The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not." [John 1:5.] 9LtMs, Ms 99, 1894, par. 14 - 9LtMs, Ms 99, 1894, par. 17
Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. Psalm 119:34.
When Christ ascended and laid open before the heavenly intelligences the scene of the conflict and the fierce attacks that Lucifer made against Him to prevent Him from accomplishing His work on the earth, all the prevarications and accusations of him who had been an exalted angel were seen in their true light. It was seen that his professedly spotless character was deceptive. His deeply laid scheme to exalt himself to supremacy was now fully discerned.... When the issue was finally settled, every unfallen being expressed indignation at the rebellion. With one voice they extolled God as righteous, merciful, self-denying, just. His law had been vindicated.
In the beginning Satan's purpose was to separate the human family from God. And in every age he has carried out this same purpose. The same method of deception, the same logic that he used to deceive the holy pair in Eden, he has used in all succeeding ages. His plan of work has ever been one of deception. He claims to be religious. He has a synagogue in which there are worshipers.... He sways all classes.
Constantly Satan works among people of all ages. At times he assumes a cloak of piety, purity, and holiness. Often he transforms himself into an angel of light. He has blinded the eyes of men and women so that they cannot see beneath the surface and discern his real purposes.
God is omnipotent, omniscient, immutable. He always pursues a straightforward course. His law is truth—unchanging, eternal truth. His precepts are consistent with His attributes. But Satan makes them appear in a false light. By perverting them he seeks to give human beings an unfavorable impression of God. Throughout his rebellion he has sought to represent God as an unjust, tyrannical being.
But Satan's hypocrisy has been unmasked by Christ's life, trial, and death. Christ took upon Himself human nature, and by His perfect life demonstrated the falsity of the claims of him who constantly accuses those who are trying to obey God's law. And the blood of Christ shed on the cross is the everlasting, incontrovertible testimony that God's law is as immutable as is His own character. The crucifixion of Christ was a murder instigated by Satan and carried out by people who had separated themselves from God. In the day of judgment, when the death of Christ upon the cross is seen in all its reality, every voice will be hushed. Everyone will see that Satan is a rebel.—Manuscript 1, 1902. CTr 291.1 - CTr 291.6
When Christ ascended and laid open before the heavenly intelligences the scene of the conflict and the fierce attacks that Lucifer made against Him to prevent Him from accomplishing His work on the earth, all the prevarications and accusations of him who had been an exalted angel were seen in their true light. It was seen that his professedly spotless character was deceptive. His deeply laid scheme to exalt himself to supremacy was now fully discerned.... When the issue was finally settled, every unfallen being expressed indignation at the rebellion. With one voice they extolled God as righteous, merciful, self-denying, just. His law had been vindicated.
In the beginning Satan's purpose was to separate the human family from God. And in every age he has carried out this same purpose. The same method of deception, the same logic that he used to deceive the holy pair in Eden, he has used in all succeeding ages. His plan of work has ever been one of deception. He claims to be religious. He has a synagogue in which there are worshipers.... He sways all classes.
Constantly Satan works among people of all ages. At times he assumes a cloak of piety, purity, and holiness. Often he transforms himself into an angel of light. He has blinded the eyes of men and women so that they cannot see beneath the surface and discern his real purposes.
God is omnipotent, omniscient, immutable. He always pursues a straightforward course. His law is truth—unchanging, eternal truth. His precepts are consistent with His attributes. But Satan makes them appear in a false light. By perverting them he seeks to give human beings an unfavorable impression of God. Throughout his rebellion he has sought to represent God as an unjust, tyrannical being.
But Satan's hypocrisy has been unmasked by Christ's life, trial, and death. Christ took upon Himself human nature, and by His perfect life demonstrated the falsity of the claims of him who constantly accuses those who are trying to obey God's law. And the blood of Christ shed on the cross is the everlasting, incontrovertible testimony that God's law is as immutable as is His own character. The crucifixion of Christ was a murder instigated by Satan and carried out by people who had separated themselves from God. In the day of judgment, when the death of Christ upon the cross is seen in all its reality, every voice will be hushed. Everyone will see that Satan is a rebel.—Manuscript 1, 1902. CTr 291.1 - CTr 291.6
There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you. Joshua 7:13.
Those who make a profession of Christianity and yet fail to have true piety are false lights, false signboards pointing in a wrong direction.... They fail to bring the principles of the truth they profess to believe into their life practices, and regard their sins and errors as trifling things. When Achan stole the golden wedge and the Babylonish garment, he also thought it was a trifling matter....
Because of this one man's sin, the presence of the Lord was withdrawn from the armies of Israel. The Lord would not serve with their sins. When the children of Israel went up against Ai, they were defeated....
When they came back in disgrace, overcome by the enemy, "Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan! O Lord, what shall I say, when Israel turneth their backs before their enemies! For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it, and shall environ us round, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do unto thy great name?"
You can see by the prayer of Joshua, if you have spiritual discernment, that that which was esteemed by Achan as a very little thing was the cause of great anguish and sorrow to the responsible men of Israel.... Achan, the guilty party, did not feel the burden. He took it very coolly....
Before the people had gone to take Jericho, they had been instructed what course to pursue. Joshua had said, "The city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein." ... Achan had heard all this charge, but he coveted the accursed thing of Jericho, appointed to destruction. He was even ready to steal the gold and silver that were to be consecrated to God and put them into the treasury of his house....
Hear the words from the lips of Jesus Christ, who was enshrouded in the cloudy pillar: "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you."—Letter 13, 1893 (The Youth's Instructor, January 25, 1894). CTr 137.1 - CTr 137.7
Those who make a profession of Christianity and yet fail to have true piety are false lights, false signboards pointing in a wrong direction.... They fail to bring the principles of the truth they profess to believe into their life practices, and regard their sins and errors as trifling things. When Achan stole the golden wedge and the Babylonish garment, he also thought it was a trifling matter....
Because of this one man's sin, the presence of the Lord was withdrawn from the armies of Israel. The Lord would not serve with their sins. When the children of Israel went up against Ai, they were defeated....
When they came back in disgrace, overcome by the enemy, "Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the Lord until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan! O Lord, what shall I say, when Israel turneth their backs before their enemies! For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it, and shall environ us round, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do unto thy great name?"
You can see by the prayer of Joshua, if you have spiritual discernment, that that which was esteemed by Achan as a very little thing was the cause of great anguish and sorrow to the responsible men of Israel.... Achan, the guilty party, did not feel the burden. He took it very coolly....
Before the people had gone to take Jericho, they had been instructed what course to pursue. Joshua had said, "The city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein." ... Achan had heard all this charge, but he coveted the accursed thing of Jericho, appointed to destruction. He was even ready to steal the gold and silver that were to be consecrated to God and put them into the treasury of his house....
Hear the words from the lips of Jesus Christ, who was enshrouded in the cloudy pillar: "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you."—Letter 13, 1893 (The Youth's Instructor, January 25, 1894). CTr 137.1 - CTr 137.7
Magdala
Active Member
Firstly, thank you for displaying, again, your prejudice and lack of consideration of the possibility that you are wrong in your understanding about Mary and other subjects.
Secondly, I challenged you to read all five volumes before passing judgement, the same rules you set in your challenge for others. You accepted my challenge when you started reading, and quit the challenge the moment you read something taught in Catholicism, and then you passed judgement before completion of the challenge.
By the way, merely reading something doesn't mean that you accept as true what you're reading, so there was no reason for you to quit the challenge, unless you were afraid that if you didn't then you'll magically become a Catholic?
Thirdly, regarding your [unsubstantiated] claim that Maria Valtorta's writings come from Satan, you say that because you'd rather believe something else, and think its impossible that you could be wrong in your understanding about Mary and other subjects. And, when push comes to shove, you can't actually explain why what you read comes from Satan. I took the time to explain why it doesn't. What did I get in reply from you about it? Nothing. Why? Because what you read is the truth, and you can't show that it's not, but it's not what you'd rather believe, and so you say it's just automatically from Satan without any evidence for it.
You have been quoting, advocating and defending someone that you believe is a Christian visionary and mystic: Ellen G. White, because there are those who have uninformed and presumptuous opinions of her. I quote, advocate and defend the Christian visionary and mystic Maria Valtorta, because there are those who have uninformed and presumptuous opinions of her, including you. You would no longer have uninformed and presumptuous opinions if you took the time to become informed, but you'd rather remain uninformed and give presumptuous opinions about her, just like the people who give uninformed and presumptuous opinions about Ellen G. White which you don't like.
I would LOVE to see you try and compare Maria Valtorta's writings to the Book of Mormon. Do you want create a thread to do that in?
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Magdala
Active Member
Oh, please. No, they witness against the person they're addressed to. So, once again, another unnecessary discussion you started with me.
FBI experts in counterfeits spend all their time studying true currency. They are so familiar with the real, that when they come across a fake, in many instances, it is instantly recognisable. They have no need to study the entire note in order to ascertain its fraudulent nature. One glance is often sufficient.
Why would anyone want to waste their time in such a ridiculous and purposeless exercise? That you would tells me much about your motive for being here. Waste everyone's time. You are on ignore.
Magdala
Active Member
Well, you're not an FBI expert in counterfeits, and what purpose would such a person serve in analyzing Maria Valtorta's writings anyway?? All the experts in various fields who actually have read and analyzed Maria Valorta's writings though didn't reach the conclusion you did, but rather their conclusions lend credence to her claims.
You think defending your claim that Maria Valtorta's writings are like the Book of Mormon is a waste of time? There you have it, folks. Another claim gone willfully unsubstantiated. Not to mention he ignored the rest of my post (#274). Therefore, Brakelite, you just displayed to me and everyone else that interaction with you is a waste of time, because you don't know how to have a proper and fair discussion/debate.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
This is one that we are going to see soon as we come to the end...
"With shouts of triumph, jeering, and imprecation, throngs of evil men are about to rush upon their prey, when, lo, a dense blackness, deeper than the darkness of the night, falls upon the earth. Then a rainbow, shining with the glory from the throne of God, spans the heavens and seems to encircle each praying company. The angry multitudes are suddenly arrested. Their mocking cries die away. The objects of their murderous rage are forgotten. With fearful forebodings they gaze upon the symbol of God's covenant and long to be shielded from its overpowering brightness. GC 635.3
By the people of God a voice, clear and melodious, is heard, saying, “Look up,” and lifting their eyes to the heavens, they behold the bow of promise. The black, angry clouds that covered the firmament are parted, and like Stephen they look up steadfastly into heaven and see the glory of God and the Son of man seated upon His throne. In His divine form they discern the marks of His humiliation; and from His lips they hear the request presented before His Father and the holy angels: “I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am.” John 17:24. Again a voice, musical and triumphant, is heard, saying: “They come! they come! holy, harmless, and undefiled. They have kept the word of My patience; they shall walk among the angels;” and the pale, quivering lips of those who have held fast their faith utter a shout of victory. GC 636.1
It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: “It is done.” Revelation 16:17. GC 636.2
That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. There is a mighty earthquake, “such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.” Verses 17, 18. The firmament appears to open and shut. The glory from the throne of God seems flashing through. The mountains shake like a reed in the wind, and ragged rocks are scattered on every side. There is a roar as of a coming tempest. The sea is lashed into fury. There is heard the shriek of a hurricane like the voice of demons upon a mission of destruction. The whole earth heaves and swells like the waves of the sea. Its surface is breaking up. Its very foundations seem to be giving way. Mountain chains are sinking. Inhabited islands disappear. The seaports that have become like Sodom for wickedness are swallowed up by the angry waters. Babylon the great has come in remembrance before God, “to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” Great hailstones, every one “about the weight of a talent,” are doing their work of destruction. Verses 19, 21. The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free. GC 636.3
Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth ... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel's message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God's covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. “They also which pierced Him” (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ's dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient."...
"With shouts of triumph, jeering, and imprecation, throngs of evil men are about to rush upon their prey, when, lo, a dense blackness, deeper than the darkness of the night, falls upon the earth. Then a rainbow, shining with the glory from the throne of God, spans the heavens and seems to encircle each praying company. The angry multitudes are suddenly arrested. Their mocking cries die away. The objects of their murderous rage are forgotten. With fearful forebodings they gaze upon the symbol of God's covenant and long to be shielded from its overpowering brightness. GC 635.3
By the people of God a voice, clear and melodious, is heard, saying, “Look up,” and lifting their eyes to the heavens, they behold the bow of promise. The black, angry clouds that covered the firmament are parted, and like Stephen they look up steadfastly into heaven and see the glory of God and the Son of man seated upon His throne. In His divine form they discern the marks of His humiliation; and from His lips they hear the request presented before His Father and the holy angels: “I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am.” John 17:24. Again a voice, musical and triumphant, is heard, saying: “They come! they come! holy, harmless, and undefiled. They have kept the word of My patience; they shall walk among the angels;” and the pale, quivering lips of those who have held fast their faith utter a shout of victory. GC 636.1
It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: “It is done.” Revelation 16:17. GC 636.2
That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. There is a mighty earthquake, “such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.” Verses 17, 18. The firmament appears to open and shut. The glory from the throne of God seems flashing through. The mountains shake like a reed in the wind, and ragged rocks are scattered on every side. There is a roar as of a coming tempest. The sea is lashed into fury. There is heard the shriek of a hurricane like the voice of demons upon a mission of destruction. The whole earth heaves and swells like the waves of the sea. Its surface is breaking up. Its very foundations seem to be giving way. Mountain chains are sinking. Inhabited islands disappear. The seaports that have become like Sodom for wickedness are swallowed up by the angry waters. Babylon the great has come in remembrance before God, “to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.” Great hailstones, every one “about the weight of a talent,” are doing their work of destruction. Verses 19, 21. The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free. GC 636.3
Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth ... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel's message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God's covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. “They also which pierced Him” (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ's dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient."...
Hobie
Well-Known Member
And this we are certainly seeing now...
"Impending Destruction of the Cities by Ellen White
While at Loma Linda, California, April 16, 1906, there passed before me a most wonderful representation. During a vision of the night, I stood on an eminence, from which I could see houses shaken like a reed in the wind. Buildings, great and small, were falling to the ground. Pleasure resorts, theatres, hotels, and the homes of the wealthy were shaken and shattered. Many lives were blotted out of existence, and the air was filled with the shrieks of the injured and the terrified.
The destroying angels of God were at work. One touch, and buildings so thoroughly constructed that men regarded them as secure against every danger, quickly became heaps of rubbish. There was no assurance of safety in any place. I did not feel in any special peril, but the awfulness of the scenes that passed before me I cannot find words to describe. It seemed that the forbearance of God was exhausted, and that the judgement day had come.
The angel that stood by my side then instructed me that but few have any conception of the wickedness existing in our world today, and especially the wickedness in the large cities. He declared that the Lord has appointed a time when He will visit transgressors in wrath for persistent disregard of His law.
Terrible as was the representation that passed before me, that which impressed itself most vividly upon my mind was the instruction given in connection with it. The angel that stood by my side declared that God's supreme rulership, and the sacredness of His law, must be revealed to those who persistently refuse to render obedience to the King of kings. Those who choose to remain disloyal must be visited in mercy with judgements, in order that, if possible, they may be aroused to a realisation of the sinfulness of their course. 9T 92
I am bidden to declare the message that cities full of transgression, and sinful in the extreme, will be destroyed by earthquakes, by fire, by flood. All the world will be warned that there is a God who will display His authority as God. His unseen agencies will cause destruction, devastation, and death. All the accumulated riches will be as nothingness. . . .
Calamities will come--calamities most awful, most unexpected; and these destructions will follow one after another. If there will be a heeding of the warnings that God has given, and if churches will repent, returning to their allegiance, then other cities may be spared for a time. But if men who have been deceived continue in the same way in which they have been walking, disregarding the law of God and presenting falsehoods before the people, God allows them to suffer calamity, that their senses may be awakened. . . .
The Lord will not suddenly cast off all transgressors or destroy entire nations; but He will punish cities and places where men have given themselves up to the possession of Satanic agencies. Strictly will the cities of the nations be dealt with, and yet they will not be visited in the extreme of God's indignation, because some souls will yet break away from the delusions of the enemy, and will repent and be converted, while the mass will be treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath.-- Manuscript 35, 1906. EV 27
While at Loma Linda, California, April 16, 1906, there passed before me a most wonderful representation. During a vision of the night, I stood on an eminence, from which I could see houses shaken like a reed in the wind. Buildings, great and small, were falling to the ground. Pleasure resorts, theatres, hotels, and the homes of the wealthy were shaken and shattered. Many lives were blotted out of existence, and the air was filled with the shrieks of the injured and the terrified.
The destroying angels of God were at work. One touch, and buildings so thoroughly constructed that men regarded them as secure against every danger, quickly became heaps of rubbish. There was no assurance of safety in any place. I did not feel in any special peril, but the awfulness of the scenes that passed before me I cannot find words to describe. It seemed that the forbearance of God was exhausted, and that the judgement day had come.
The angel that stood by my side then instructed me that but few have any conception of the wickedness existing in our world today, and especially the wickedness in the large cities. He declared that the Lord has appointed a time when He will visit transgressors in wrath for persistent disregard of His law.
Terrible as was the representation that passed before me, that which impressed itself most vividly upon my mind was the instruction given in connection with it. The angel that stood by my side declared that God's supreme rulership, and the sacredness of His law, must be revealed to those who persistently refuse to render obedience to the King of kings. Those who choose to remain disloyal must be visited in mercy with judgements, in order that, if possible, they may be aroused to a realisation of the sinfulness of their course.-- Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 92. (1909) EV 28
As I consider the conditions in the cities that are so manifestly under the power of Satan, I ask myself the question, What will be the end of these things? The wickedness in many cities is increasing. Crime and iniquity are at work on every hand. New species of idolatry are continually being introduced into society. In every nation the minds of men are turning to the invention of some new thing. Rashness of deed and confusion of mind are everywhere increasing. Surely the cities of the earth are becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah.
As a people we need to hasten the work in the cities, which has been hindered for lack of workers and means and a spirit of consecration. At this time, the people of God need to turn their hearts fully to Him; for the end of all things is at hand. They need to humble their minds, and to be attentive to the will of the Lord, working with earnest desire to do that which God has shown must be done to warn the cities of their impending doom. RH JAN.25,1912
Everywhere there are men who should be out in active ministry, giving the last message of warning to a fallen world. The work that should long ago have been in active operation to win souls to Christ has not been done. The inhabitants of the ungodly cities so soon to be visited by calamities have been cruelly neglected. The time is near when large cities will be swept away, and all should be warned of these coming judgements. But who is giving to the accomplishment of this work the wholehearted service that God requires? . . .
O that God's people had a sense of the impending destruction of thousands of cities, now almost given to idolatry. RH SEP.10,1903
"Impending Destruction of the Cities by Ellen White
While at Loma Linda, California, April 16, 1906, there passed before me a most wonderful representation. During a vision of the night, I stood on an eminence, from which I could see houses shaken like a reed in the wind. Buildings, great and small, were falling to the ground. Pleasure resorts, theatres, hotels, and the homes of the wealthy were shaken and shattered. Many lives were blotted out of existence, and the air was filled with the shrieks of the injured and the terrified.
The destroying angels of God were at work. One touch, and buildings so thoroughly constructed that men regarded them as secure against every danger, quickly became heaps of rubbish. There was no assurance of safety in any place. I did not feel in any special peril, but the awfulness of the scenes that passed before me I cannot find words to describe. It seemed that the forbearance of God was exhausted, and that the judgement day had come.
The angel that stood by my side then instructed me that but few have any conception of the wickedness existing in our world today, and especially the wickedness in the large cities. He declared that the Lord has appointed a time when He will visit transgressors in wrath for persistent disregard of His law.
Terrible as was the representation that passed before me, that which impressed itself most vividly upon my mind was the instruction given in connection with it. The angel that stood by my side declared that God's supreme rulership, and the sacredness of His law, must be revealed to those who persistently refuse to render obedience to the King of kings. Those who choose to remain disloyal must be visited in mercy with judgements, in order that, if possible, they may be aroused to a realisation of the sinfulness of their course. 9T 92
I am bidden to declare the message that cities full of transgression, and sinful in the extreme, will be destroyed by earthquakes, by fire, by flood. All the world will be warned that there is a God who will display His authority as God. His unseen agencies will cause destruction, devastation, and death. All the accumulated riches will be as nothingness. . . .
Calamities will come--calamities most awful, most unexpected; and these destructions will follow one after another. If there will be a heeding of the warnings that God has given, and if churches will repent, returning to their allegiance, then other cities may be spared for a time. But if men who have been deceived continue in the same way in which they have been walking, disregarding the law of God and presenting falsehoods before the people, God allows them to suffer calamity, that their senses may be awakened. . . .
The Lord will not suddenly cast off all transgressors or destroy entire nations; but He will punish cities and places where men have given themselves up to the possession of Satanic agencies. Strictly will the cities of the nations be dealt with, and yet they will not be visited in the extreme of God's indignation, because some souls will yet break away from the delusions of the enemy, and will repent and be converted, while the mass will be treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath.-- Manuscript 35, 1906. EV 27
While at Loma Linda, California, April 16, 1906, there passed before me a most wonderful representation. During a vision of the night, I stood on an eminence, from which I could see houses shaken like a reed in the wind. Buildings, great and small, were falling to the ground. Pleasure resorts, theatres, hotels, and the homes of the wealthy were shaken and shattered. Many lives were blotted out of existence, and the air was filled with the shrieks of the injured and the terrified.
The destroying angels of God were at work. One touch, and buildings so thoroughly constructed that men regarded them as secure against every danger, quickly became heaps of rubbish. There was no assurance of safety in any place. I did not feel in any special peril, but the awfulness of the scenes that passed before me I cannot find words to describe. It seemed that the forbearance of God was exhausted, and that the judgement day had come.
The angel that stood by my side then instructed me that but few have any conception of the wickedness existing in our world today, and especially the wickedness in the large cities. He declared that the Lord has appointed a time when He will visit transgressors in wrath for persistent disregard of His law.
Terrible as was the representation that passed before me, that which impressed itself most vividly upon my mind was the instruction given in connection with it. The angel that stood by my side declared that God's supreme rulership, and the sacredness of His law, must be revealed to those who persistently refuse to render obedience to the King of kings. Those who choose to remain disloyal must be visited in mercy with judgements, in order that, if possible, they may be aroused to a realisation of the sinfulness of their course.-- Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 92. (1909) EV 28
As I consider the conditions in the cities that are so manifestly under the power of Satan, I ask myself the question, What will be the end of these things? The wickedness in many cities is increasing. Crime and iniquity are at work on every hand. New species of idolatry are continually being introduced into society. In every nation the minds of men are turning to the invention of some new thing. Rashness of deed and confusion of mind are everywhere increasing. Surely the cities of the earth are becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah.
As a people we need to hasten the work in the cities, which has been hindered for lack of workers and means and a spirit of consecration. At this time, the people of God need to turn their hearts fully to Him; for the end of all things is at hand. They need to humble their minds, and to be attentive to the will of the Lord, working with earnest desire to do that which God has shown must be done to warn the cities of their impending doom. RH JAN.25,1912
Everywhere there are men who should be out in active ministry, giving the last message of warning to a fallen world. The work that should long ago have been in active operation to win souls to Christ has not been done. The inhabitants of the ungodly cities so soon to be visited by calamities have been cruelly neglected. The time is near when large cities will be swept away, and all should be warned of these coming judgements. But who is giving to the accomplishment of this work the wholehearted service that God requires? . . .
O that God's people had a sense of the impending destruction of thousands of cities, now almost given to idolatry. RH SEP.10,1903
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