Believing on Christ is a evidence of being born again !

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brightfame52 said:

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brightfame52 said:

Thats for the elect See Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

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Brightfame, once again, you've created a conflict in scripture.

Let's take a look:
Titus 1:1
1Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth....


Then @Nancy posted the following:
Titus 2:11
11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.


So unless we could reconcile...there is a conflict in the NT and we know this cannot be possible.

So let's unpack:

1. Titus 1:1 is a greeting. It's a greeting to those to whom Paul is writing.
Paul always addresses to WHOM he is speaking. (Philemon, Timothy would be other examples).

2. He is addressing, here, God's elect.
The elect in the bible could be:
THE JEWISH PEOPLE
THOSE THAT HAVE COME TO BELIEVE IN CHRIST.

They are elect based ON CONDITIONS.....

3. THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED. Who or What is that grace? Didn't God's grace ALWAYS exist?
Of course it did....
THIS GRACE OF GOD that has APPEARED is JESUS CHRIST.

JESUS said that EVERYONE has the possibility of becoming saved.
HOW?

JESUS taught us how:
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

As usual, no conflict in the NT.

YOUR reply to Nancy does indeed create a conflict.

brightfame52 said:

Another scripture that confirms that faith/obedience is evidence of a previous Sovereign work of the Spirit is 1 Peter 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The obedience here is evangelical obedience or faith obedience as in Rom 1:5

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

Acts 6:7

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Sanctification of the Spirit is also New Birth!

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HOW could this be Brightfame??

I know many atheists that behave better than Christians!

Plus, you wrote above OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH....

Which faith would that be?
The faith that Jesus and the Apostles taught, or the faith that some men teach?

brightfame52 said:

Many in religion these days have things backwards, they suppose that men can perform a spiritual act from a spiritually dead heart. Yes men naturally born of adam are born spiritually dead. Thats why Jesus told nicodemus a man must be born again or he cannot see the kingdom of God, Christ and Him Crucified. The word see Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. is the greek word eidō and means:

to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

This certainly agrees with Pauls wisdom here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[understand] them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But once God Sovereignly gives a vessel of mercy a new birth by the Spirit, they are now capacitated Spiritually to believe Spiritually on Christ, hence Jesus says that those who did receive Him, even believe on His Name, did so because they had been born of God Jn 1:12-13

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


So the ones believing had been previously born of God, this testimony of truth cannot be more clearer !

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Why do you jump from one idea to the next every 3 posts?
Are you unable to reply to our comments??

brightfame52 said:

Another scripture that Illustrates that believing /faith is evidence of the new birth or having been born again is 2 Thess 2 13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

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Thanks BF
Once again, you have shown us that predestination regards the HOW and not the WHO.

Here's what you wrote just above.
And, thank you, you even underlined it ! YOUR bold and emphasis. God is great !

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

As you agree:
We are predistined to salvation THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT and belief of the truth.

Thanks!

Yeah, I’ve thought about this a lot, and it does seem like Jesus and Paul are both pointing to the idea that spiritual understanding comes after God does something in a person first. I used to think faith was just a personal decision, like choosing to believe something, but over time, I realized that real faith isn’t just about willpower—it’s like a light turning on that wasn’t there before. It makes sense that if someone is spiritually dead, they wouldn’t even recognize the truth until God opens their eyes. I’m not saying I have it all figured out, but it definitely shifts the focus from human effort to God being the one who makes it possible in the first place.

Spiritual understanding develops and grows, once our spirit is Born Again, as our spirit is connected to God via His Spirit, the Spirit develops our spiritual growth in us...as we are being conformed into Jesus image...you must be Born Again for that to happen.

It’s a supernatural spirit birth...a Living supernatural spirit birth, that only the Spirit can perform...if God chooses to do so..God opens our heart to receive his Spirit and be birthed into Christ Spirit...as his word says..Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit...we are reconciled back to our Father God in our heart/ spirit, by His Living testimony..the Holy Spirit.
Supernatural faith is a gift from God...it’s not something that you can read into being....

Faith is Alive And Active...because we are Born Again....we know of God in our spirit, hence Spirit gives birth to spirit....Gods Living testimony lives in our spirit / heart....testifying of Gods truth to our spirit all day every day....we are growing up into Christ......we become more like him as our spirit grows and matures.

Moryd said:

Yeah, I’ve thought about this a lot, and it does seem like Jesus and Paul are both pointing to the idea that spiritual understanding comes after God does something in a person first.

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What do you think this would be?
Does God do this "thing" in everyone or just a select few?

Perhaps you could post some scripture to support your understanding?
(otherwise we could all believe whatever we want to believe - and there goes Christianity).

Moryd said:

I used to think faith was just a personal decision,

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Why isn't it?
Cannot I not choose to follow the teachings of Jesus?
Do we decide anything else in life?
Like who to date......did the other person have to "do" something to you first?
What university to go to.....did some special "thing" have to go off in our mind?

Are we even able to make decisions or are we totally unable to make any decision?

I say this because those that come on these forums and quietly try to convert others start by stating
that maybe it is NOT a decision and that God MUST make all decisions for us.

So, are we ABLE to make decisions or not?

Moryd said:

like choosing to believe something, but over time, I realized that real faith isn’t just about willpower—

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What IS real faith Moryd?
There's a fake faith and there's a real faith?

Moryd said:

it’s like a light turning on that wasn’t there before. It makes sense that if someone is spiritually dead, they wouldn’t even recognize the truth until God opens their eyes.

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There you go.
God MUST DO EVERYTHING.
Can you post some scripture please?
Thanks.

Moryd said:

I’m not saying I have it all figured out, but it definitely shifts the focus from human effort to God being the one who makes it possible in the first place.

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Of course God makes it possible....what does that mean?
God revealed Himself to man BEFORE there was a bible.
Romans 1:18-20
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Now let's read carefully what the above states:

1. Since the creation of the world God has been made known His divine nature.

2. It has been clearly seen by what He has made. (the universe).

3. The wicked have seen this power...and it can be understood by them.

4. This is why they will have no excuse from the wrath of God.


So,,,,
Does EVERYONE have the ability to see the divine nature of God?
Has the universe been shown to everyone....or do some of us not see the universe?
Will God hold the wicked responsible for their actions?
Why?

Sounds like
GOD REVEALS HIMSELF
MAN SEES THE REVELATION
MAN MUST MAKE THE PROPER DECISION SO THAT THE WRATH OF GOD WILL NOT ABIDE ON HIM.

Nancy said:

His "reply" was no reply at all, it's all circular reasoning every time so, I no longer will debate, argue with those who claim this. We, ALL born again, Spirit filled Christians are the elect, as you say Fran.
Buona giornata Amico mio!! :)

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Nancy, I feel like this too.
But I feel we MUST reply because some Christian doctrines are so greatly incorrect that they must be shown to be so.

I don't post for the member most of the time,,,but for those reading along.

I believe it's important to combat doctrine that was INVENTED by a man....

Good day to you too amica mia!

You can follow a doctrine.or Bible..anyone can adhere to teachings in the flesh...for so long...only being Born Again can keep us on that narrow spiritual path...it’s the Spirit who keeps us on the narrow path...no flesh of man/ woman can do that.

You have to be Born Again to follow the teachings of the Spirit..as we have been birthed into Christ, therefore belong to the Spirit Of God...who conforms us into Jesus image.

It’s the Spirit who grows and matures us..how else could we grow in spiritual maturity/ wisdom/ understanding..if our spirit isn’t Born Again?

brightfame52 said:

No conflict except in your mind, those verses you quoted pertain to none but the elect

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Prove it Brightfame.

I've shown on this thread how you created a conflict.

Are you able to show that it is NOT a conflict?

Maybe not.
Maybe you are unable to support your position.

Give it a try.

Which part of my post do you not agree with?

brightfame52 said:

I dont judge scripture by what you know and experience See 1 Pet 1:2

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I NEVER mention my own personal experience.
I only refer to scripture.

You brought up 1 Peter 1:2.
Could you explain why please?

1 Peter 1:1-2
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.


Verse 2 states that God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of who will be saved.
And that by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit we will obey Jesus.

We will obey Jesus by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit
NOT
because God forces us to obey Him because He decreed it before time began.

brightfame52 said:

I replied

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So far you have given zero replies but have only made statements.

A reply would be nice.