Not sure if I'm understanding you or not, but this is about us forgiving and not judging and meting out "justice" to others, not about us being personally accountable. If your neighbour broke your window would you go next door and break his window in retribution? Hopefully not.
Forgiveness?
- Thread starter jessicaleks93
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I’m talking about the elements of ATONEMENT, be it us or unbelievers. Not us meting out justice. It is the wrong doer acknowledging and acts to make amends.
In the case of the OP, that burden is on the other family member.
I haven't verbally been able to tell everyone who has done me wrong that I forgive them. But I made sure to tell my father that I forgave him because I cared about his soul and I knew that he carried a huge burden of guilt, sorrow, and pain. He came to Christ several months before his passing. He didn't need my unforgiveness weighing on him.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
We forgive as we perceive we have been forgiven.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
No, you don't need to tell them. As all sin is against God, you need only tell Him you have forgiven them. But also, do not misunderstand, it is not for you to forgive repulsive acts, but to approach God confessing that you accept what He has allowed. That is you doing your part in relationship with Him...as He could have stopped it from happening, but didn't. Which He has done for you as much as He has done it for those who abused you--each needing to come before God in repentance, for none are without sin against God.
To elaborate the individual need being rather between us and God rather than between us and who ever has wronged or sinned against us: Imagine another person faced with a similar situation defending themselves and doing harm to their attacker (even unto death). It would mean the attacker may literally be dead and standing before God in Judgement of what they had done; and the person attached having no one to forgive who is still alive, leaving only God with which to go to.
And when you do take it to God--it is finished, even if you to continue carry the scars. When you reflect upon those scars, reflect upon Jesus.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes! And remember the centurion who only asked Christ to speak the word without needing to go to the person.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God forgives before we ask. He sends his rain and sunshine on the just and unjust. See how Jesus heals people and prefaces it with, 'your sins are forgiven'.....and they have not asked let alone repented.
Repentance is for our sake. Without it we continue on a path of self destruct. God's unprecedented generosity enables us to find repentance.
The Good News is far far better than we imagine. We however, want to shackle God and make him in our image....and what does that mean? ....it means we are not willing to forgive generously. We insist people bow and scrape so they know their place before we consider the possibility of forgiving them. We want to humiliate them and elevate ourselves and our perceived rightness. (ego)
God is not like men in this regard, not in the slightest.
Romans 2:4
[4]Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
I'm not sure being forgiven is necessarily the same thing as being reconciled. God or we may forgive, but being reconciled (being joined or re-joined in relationship) usually requires repentance on part of the wrong-doer. And that means acquiescing and acknowledging one's wrong, it doesn't have to require bowing and scraping. Though if the wrong is bad enough doesn't a truly penitent heart pretty much do just that?
Someone has serious harmed you and you say it is arrogance to expect that they recognise the hurt they have caused and to say sorry.
This is what God expects of us.
Read leviticus and see just how costly to a subsistence farmer sacrifice for sin was.
How is praying about how one feels about being hurt, about asking God to enable one to come to terms with what was done so that one can forgive.
How is praying for the good of someone who has harmed one and act of ego building.
It is far easier to manufacture feelings of forgiv3n3ss than to serious deal with God about what happened.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Repentance is for our sake and the joy of heaven. Repentance takes the hand that has long reached out to us and enables on a personal level.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I really don't see the connection between what I have said and your reply above, WC. You might want to clarify?
I was responding to your post 28:-
We however, want to shackle God and make him in our image....and what does that mean? ....it means we are not willing to forgive generously. We insist people bow and scrape so they know their place before we consider the possibility of forgiving them. We want to humiliate them and elevate ourselves and our perceived rightness. (ego)
God is not like men in this regard, not in the slightest.
By pointing out it is reasonable to expect an apology/repentance from someone who has harmed us and that the process of praying to God about such an incident, of being willing to be changed and of praying for on offender takes a lot of humility.
Far easier to just say I forgive, without doing anything.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Forgiveness?
Men forgive Trespasses.
God forgives Sins and Trespasses.
Forgiveness does not mean “No negative consequence” for the “act“ of the “Sin or Trespass”.
Glory to God,
Taken
When poster don't read what I write, when they ignore the plane teaching g of scripture and assume that copying Jesus or Stephen mean having hatred in ones heart yes I can only respond to the words written.
Throughout the bible repentance is a Co edition of forgiveness. Leviticus 1-4 on sacrifice for sin.
The best animal would be brought to the temple, at the priest would take the worshipper and sacrificial animal to the alter. The worshipper laid his hand on the animals head and it's throat would be cut.
Blood would be scattered on the alter the fat and other parts burnt.
This was the background to Jesus's teaching. The disciples knew about the attitude of e had when making such a sacrifice, it had to be one of repentance.
Reread all that the apostles wrote about forgiving others with this teaching in the forefront of your mind.
Forgiveness is what we do despite the offender not owning their sin against us. It is for us so that we may let go and leave it at the foot of the cross (IMHO). It does not mean that God forgives them but it frees us up to rise above and never allow it to bother us again. The offending person is not bothered at all yet, we have issues letting go of hurts and wrongs...I've personally been through this with my own family for a year plus. If we still hold resentment then that is on us and we should then get on our knees petitioning God for more grace to soften your heart towards them and keep doing that, you will find that (if you are sincere) you're perception of them might change and you're truly free then :)
I want to elaborate on this. My dad was one of my abusers. I was abused in every way imaginable by multiple abusers from the womb. By the time I was age 10, I hated my dad. It's hard to explain ....because many times I would walk up to him and say, "I love you, daddy." His response was to turn his face and not even look at me, fold his arms, and say, "I love me, too." So then I would hug him ....bc I was hungry for his love ...and the message was "if you love me, then hug me." So I'd hug him ....bracing myself for what was next. Sexual abuse always followed.
I don't even like sharing this bc God gave me the understanding of why my dad did the things he did. And my dad is new now, a different man. BUT ...God gave me a burden for my dad's salvation when I came to Christ at age 13. From the moment God saved me, forgiveness filled my heart and I witnessed to my dad.
I still suffered abuse after I came to Christ, and that forgiveness remained and grew. This is not to my praise. It was a response to the immense love and forgiveness I had received from God. He poured that into me, and through me.
When I was about 18, my father did admit to me face to face that he did bad things to me and my sister and that he was so sorry. I told him that I had forgiven him years ago and that God would too if he could receive it. He said he couldn't forgive himself ...but "maybe someday" he would accept God's forgiveness. I said, "Don't wait too long. I want you with me when I go to Jesus."
Through the next 8 years, I kept up with him through an uncle who was a Christian. Then, somewhere around 1996/1997, he went silent and for 6 years, I didn't know where he was or if he was alive. But I was told by God when I was 13 that He would save my Dad. I prayed all those years for him.
In 1997, God spoke to me to release my dad, to lay the burden down. And every time I thought to pray for him, to praise and thank Him for what He was doing. So that's what I did.
AT the same time God led me to lay that burden down, He began to deal with me to begin writing down my life/past experiences/testimony on paper. I fought doing that for years because I just couldn't get my brain to go there. I had huge memory gaps, and what little bits I did remember weren't pleasant and my mind created huge barriers. But God kept urging me to write.
Finally, in 2001/2002, I made my first attempt. I don't even remember what I wrote. It wasn't much. And then, I tried again in 2003. That is when God began to break down the walls and memories began to pour through ... SRA (satanic ritual abuse) and MK Ultra ...and He began to reconnect and bring all my brokenness (alter personalities) together again as He healed the trauma they held.
In December of 2004, my healing and deprogramming still underway, my dad recontacted me by email.
This thread tells what transpired after that point.
A Thanksgiving Thanks, a Testimony, & Remembrance
I haven't posted this here before, but I wanted to acknowledge the gift and miracle of salvation and my earthly father's graduation to Heaven. (The date was actually November 24, 2005.) He was saved a few months before he passed away on Thanksgiving Day. My stepmother, who I had just met less...
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