The Second Death Destroys Man's False Amill Theory

Davy · Jan 24, 2025

Per Revelation 22, one of the major changes with the future new heavens and a new earth time, is then there will be NO MORE DEATH. That's huge!

Rev 21:1
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return, we are told there will still exist the "second death", and what it is, i.e., the casting of the unsaved into the future "lake of fire" AFTER... the "thousand years" period.

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Those of the "first resurrection" of course mean the saved, Christ's elect that reign with Him.

Did you notice in that time there will exist the concept of a "SECOND DEATH", and that it is NOT for those of the "first resurrection"??

Use a little common sense now and ask yourself, since that "second death" is NOT for those who live and reign with Christ, then WHO is it for? For the UNSAVED, or course!!

Do you realize what that means for men's false theory of Amillennialism which believes all... the unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's return???

It means that Amillennialism theory is FALSE, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY FALSE!

And all it took was one simple little look at that concept of the "second death" for the wicked and unsaved, which is their casting into the "lake of fire" AFTER the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is over (see Rev.20).

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 24, 2025

Davy said:
Per Revelation 22, one of the major changes with the future new heavens and a new earth time, is then there will be NO MORE DEATH. That's huge!

Rev 21:1
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return, we are told there will still exist the "second death", and what it is, i.e., the casting of the unsaved into the future "lake of fire" AFTER... the "thousand years" period.

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Those of the "first resurrection" of course mean the saved, Christ's elect that reign with Him.

Did you notice in that time there will exist the concept of a "SECOND DEATH", and that it is NOT for those of the "first resurrection"??

Use a little common sense now and ask yourself, since that "second death" is NOT for those who live and reign with Christ, then WHO is it for? For the UNSAVED, or course!!

Do you realize what that means for men's false theory of Amillennialism which believes all... the unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's return???

It's means that Amillennialism theory is FALSE, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY FALSE!

And all it took was one simple little look at that concept of the "second death" for the wicked and unsaved, which is their casting into the "lake of fire" AFTER the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is over (see Rev.20).

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen. Amillennialism does not claim that the second death is for anyone but the unsaved, so what in the world is your point here? How does anything you said here refute Amillennialism? What a bunch of nonsense.

tailgator · Jan 24, 2025

Davy said:
Per Revelation 22, one of the major changes with the future new heavens and a new earth time, is then there will be NO MORE DEATH. That's huge!

Rev 21:1
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return, we are told there will still exist the "second death", and what it is, i.e., the casting of the unsaved into the future "lake of fire" AFTER... the "thousand years" period.

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Those of the "first resurrection" of course mean the saved, Christ's elect that reign with Him.

Did you notice in that time there will exist the concept of a "SECOND DEATH", and that it is NOT for those of the "first resurrection"??

Use a little common sense now and ask yourself, since that "second death" is NOT for those who live and reign with Christ, then WHO is it for? For the UNSAVED, or course!!

Do you realize what that means for men's false theory of Amillennialism which believes all... the unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's return???

It's means that Amillennialism theory is FALSE, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY FALSE!

And all it took was one simple little look at that concept of the "second death" for the wicked and unsaved, which is their casting into the "lake of fire" AFTER the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is over (see Rev.20).

I agree 100 %
But I don't believe it's for everyone to understand .

Many will travel to the kingdom and sit down with Abraham at the feast,but most people in the east and west will just stay where they are.They don't believe Jesus comes and raises Israel from the dead at the beginning of the Sabbath day .

jeffweeder · Jan 24, 2025

The second death is the lake of fire.
Rev 20
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].

When it happens is highlighted below in RED...,

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

tailgator · Jan 24, 2025

jeffweeder said:
The second death is the lake of fire.
Rev 20
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].

When it happens is highlighted below in RED...,

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire 1000 years before the devil ,his angels and the rest of the dead who names are not written.
In fact,the devil is wrapped up in chains after the beast is cast into the lake of fire and is not released till the 1000 years have been fulfilled.

So when it happens is more than once seperated by 1000 years.

Revelation 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

jeffweeder · Jan 24, 2025

tailgator said:
So when it happens is more than once seperated by 1000 years.

That would contradict how Jesus and Paul explained things.

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.

2Thess 2

7 For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way.

8 Then the lawless one [the Antichrist] will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by the appearance of His coming. 9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie, 12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.

satan has been restrained from going forth in all power since he was cast out by the Lord's victory and ascension.
His little season begins in all power when the restraining influence (above) is taken away once the saving Gospel has run its course.

Truth7t7 · Jan 25, 2025

Davy said:
However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

tailgator · Jan 25, 2025

jeffweeder said:
That would contradict how Jesus and Paul explained things.

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.

2Thess 2

7 For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way.

8 Then the lawless one [the Antichrist] will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by the appearance of His coming. 9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie, 12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.

satan has been restrained from going forth in all power since he was cast out by the Lord's victory and ascension.
His little season begins in all power when the restraining influence (above) is taken away once the saving Gospel has run its course.

No ,revelation does not contradict Jesus.
Revelation is the revelation of Jesus which God gave to him to show his servants what must shortly come to pass.

These are their events in the correct order of revelation.

The beast persecutes the saints for 42 months .

The second beast (false prophet)decieves people into receiving the mark of the beast during that time.

After this persecution ,Christ comes and resurects the saints who were killed for their testimony of Jesus and who did not worship the beast,it's image nor receive it's mark.

The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at that time.

Satan is bound by an angle which came down from heaven for 1000 years

The resurected saints live and reign with Christ in the promised land( where the beast once reigned)for 1000 years.

After the 1000 years,Satan is released from his prison and goes out to decieve the nations outside of the kingdom.

God destroys Gog and the nations which came against the resurected saints

Then the rest of the dead are raised and judged by their works.Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are and everyone else who names are not found written are cast into the lake of fire as well.

There is only one kingdom that is cast into the lake of fire before the 1000 years That is the kingdom occupied by the beast with seven heads and ten horns .It is the nations within that kingdom what are destroyed before the 1000 years

Mathew 25:31 below takes place before the millinium(Sabbath)when all the nations in the promised land are destroyed at Christs coming.Mat 25:31 takes place during the first resurection when them who did not worship the beast or it's image are raised from.the dead.

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

tailgator · Jan 25, 2025

jeffweeder said:
satan has been restrained from going forth in all power since he was cast out by the Lord's victory and ascension.
His little season begins in all power when the restraining influence (above) is taken away once the saving Gospel has run its course.

You believe Satan is bound in the bottomless pit?
Hahaha
You have been deceived.

Davy · Jan 25, 2025

jeffweeder said:
The second death is the lake of fire.
Rev 20
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].

When it happens is highlighted below in RED...,

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Those Scriptures do not include the detail of the "second death" that the Book of Revelation does. Haven't you yet discovered that the meaning of the word Revelation means 'the revealing'? If Jesus had given the details about the second death there in Matthew 25, and likewise Paul in 2 Thess.1, would the Book of Revelation have been even needed for the Church??

It's obvious that you have drunken a doctrine of men devised 'outside' The Bible, and have forgotten that Jesus gave us His Book of Revelation to show FURTHER DETAILS of what He had said before during His Ministry on earth. And this is just common sense; one does not have to be a brain surgeon to understand this point.

jeffweeder · Jan 26, 2025

Davy said:
Those Scriptures do not include the detail of the "second death" that the Book of Revelation does.

What details? The timing of the second death is comprehensively dealt with in Matt 25 and 2Thess 1.

Jesus establishes that this happens a s a result of his second coming appearing.

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection]

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ....

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

That's as close to Eden as you can come. Blessed hope is realized at his coming.

Paul agrees completely by stating the Lord appears in flaming fire dealing out a full and complete vengeance, that results in....

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Davy said:
Haven't you yet discovered that the meaning of the word Revelation means 'the revealing'?

Yes, straight off the bat....,

1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified and gave supporting evidence to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to everything that he saw [in his visions].

19 So write the things which you have seen [in the vision], and the things which are [now happening], and the things which will take place after these things.

quietthinker · Jan 26, 2025

Man's False Amill Theory

amill, no mill, post mill, email, no mail, late mail......all sounds the same to brown ducks and yellow belly Nelly!

TribulationSigns · Jan 26, 2025

Davy said:
Per Revelation 22, one of the major changes with the future new heavens and a new earth time, is then there will be NO MORE DEATH. That's huge!

Huge? If your understanding is correct.

Davy said:
Rev 21:1
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

However, for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect beginning at His future return, we are told there will still exist the "second death", and what it is, i.e., the casting of the unsaved into the future "lake of fire" AFTER... the "thousand years" period.

False. The millennial kingdom started when Christ established a kingdom when He ascended back into heaven after the Cross and to His Throne. And empowered his believers with the Holy Spirit to be His witnesses on Earth through the Church. It ends when Christ returns. There will be no future kingdom after this as you think.

Davy said:
Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV

Those of the "first resurrection" of course mean the saved, Christ's elect that reign with Him.

The first resurrection is being BORN AGAIN that anyone with the Holy Spirit will not have to worry about the second death.

Davy said:
Did you notice in that time there will exist the concept of a "SECOND DEATH", and that it is NOT for those of the "first resurrection"??

Incorrect. The Second Death is the Lake of fire when Christ returns at the end of millennial kingdom AFTER the church ministry is finished. Not future 1,000 years.

Davy said:
Use a little common sense now and ask yourself, since that "second death" is NOT for those who live and reign with Christ, then WHO is it for? For the UNSAVED, or course!!

Like duh. All the unsaved since Cain to the last unsaved person when Christ returns.

Davy said:
Do you realize what that means for men's false theory of Amillennialism which believes all... the unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's return???

Yes, it is true. All unsaved people who had no part of the first resurrection (being born again with the Holy Spirit) will be thrown into lake of fire which is second death. Why do you have hard time understand this?

Davy said:
It's means that Amillennialism theory is FALSE, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY FALSE!

LOL.

Davy said:
And all it took was one simple little look at that concept of the "second death" for the wicked and unsaved, which is their casting into the "lake of fire" AFTER the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect is over (see Rev.20).

The problem is that you had wrong timing for the millennial kingdom. You think the 1,000 year is literal year that must take place after the Second Coming when it spiritual representing a period of Church's great commission from the Cross to the Last Trump. There will be no time for a thousand year kingdom after this. Not even so called 7 years great tribulation period.

The biblical amillennialism is correct. Read the study:

An exposition of Revelation Chapter 20

TribulationSigns · Jan 26, 2025

Spiritual Israelite said:
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen. Amillennialism does not claim that the second death is for anyone but the unsaved, so what in the world is your point here? How does anything you said here refute Amillennialism? What a bunch of nonsense.

VERY!

Davy · Jan 27, 2025

jeffweeder said:
What details? The timing of the second death is comprehensively dealt with in Matt 25 and 2Thess 1.

Jesus establishes that this happens a s a result of his second coming appearing.

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection]

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world ....

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

That's as close to Eden as you can come. Blessed hope is realized at his coming.

Paul agrees completely by stating the Lord appears in flaming fire dealing out a full and complete vengeance, that results in....

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Yes, straight off the bat....,

1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified and gave supporting evidence to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to everything that he saw [in his visions].

19 So write the things which you have seen [in the vision], and the things which are [now happening], and the things which will take place after these things.

Brethren, there again the above reveals a DENIAL of the Bible Scriptures about the "second death" in Revelation 20 that will be in effect for the UNSAVED that will still exist throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect. Amillennialists like jeffweeder simply pic n' choose Bible Scripture that only mentions destruction of the wicked, WITHOUT including Christ's details He gave later about the "second death" during His future "thousand years" reign per Revelation 20.

Amillennialists would rather that we just tear out those sections of Scripture like Revelation 20 with later details Jesus Christ Himself gave us, as if they never existed. If that is not an obvious attempt to deceive, and a work of the devil, then please tell me what is.

jeffweeder · Jan 27, 2025

Davy said:
Brethren, there again the above reveals a DENIAL of the Bible Scriptures about the "second death" in Revelation 20 that will be in effect for the UNSAVED that will still exist throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect. Amillennialists like jeffweeder simply pic n' choose Bible Scripture that only mentions destruction of the wicked, WITHOUT including Christ's details He gave later about the "second death" during His future "thousand years" reign per Revelation 20.

If you would rather reject what is plainly stated in Matt 25 and 2 Thess 1 in favor for your own interpretation of the symbolic Rev 20 then that is up to you.

You are clearly causing a contradiction.

Davy said:
Amillennialists would rather that we just tear out those sections of Scripture like Revelation 20 with later details Jesus Christ Himself gave us, as if they never existed. If that is not an obvious attempt to deceive, and a work of the devil, then please tell me what is.

Grow up.
Amills explain how they interpret Rev 20 using other scripture like jn 5 and the ones put forth above.

You offer nothing regarding Matt 25 and 2Thess1.
All you can do is insult.

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2025

tailgator said:
No ,revelation does not contradict Jesus.
Revelation is the revelation of Jesus which God gave to him to show his servants what must shortly come to pass.

These are their events in the correct order of revelation.

The beast persecutes the saints for 42 months .

The second beast (false prophet)decieves people into receiving the mark of the beast during that time.

After this persecution ,Christ comes and resurects the saints who were killed for their testimony of Jesus and who did not worship the beast,it's image nor receive it's mark.

The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at that time.

Satan is bound by an angle which came down from heaven for 1000 years

The resurected saints live and reign with Christ in the promised land( where the beast once reigned)for 1000 years.

After the 1000 years,Satan is released from his prison and goes out to decieve the nations outside of the kingdom.

God destroys Gog and the nations which came against the resurected saints

Then the rest of the dead are raised and judged by their works.Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are and everyone else who names are not found written are cast into the lake of fire as well.

There is only one kingdom that is cast into the lake of fire before the 1000 years That is the kingdom occupied by the beast with seven heads and ten horns .It is the nations within that kingdom what are destroyed before the 1000 years

Mathew 25:31 below takes place before the millinium(Sabbath)when all the nations in the promised land are destroyed at Christs coming.Mat 25:31 takes place during the first resurection when them who did not worship the beast or it's image are raised from.the dead.

Matt 25:31-

The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

Aesops Fables Chapter 6

Truth7t7 · Jan 27, 2025

TribulationSigns said:
The first resurrection is being BORN AGAIN

False claim, "The First Resurrection" pertains to the dead in Christ they will be raised "First" in the first resurrection at the future second coming on the last day

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

TribulationSigns said:
Yes, it is true. All unsaved people who had no part of the first resurrection (being born again with the Holy Spirit) will be thrown into lake of fire which is second death. Why do you have hard time understand this?

The dead believers below in Rev 20:5 will partake in a future literal resurrection "Live Again" in glorified immortal bodies, the word "Resurrection" isn't spiritual salvation as you continue to claim, it will be future, literal, physical, for the dead in Christ (This Is The First Resurrection) The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "FIRST"

Revelation 20:5KJV
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

TribulationSigns · Jan 28, 2025

False claim!

Truth7t7 said:
1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

But not as some people understand the phrase Humanistically, but as God intended it to mean those who have died will be raised up again. Not literally corpses coming out of graves caves or out of the dirt in the ground, but God is simply saying, the dead shall rise again. He is speaking in the vernacular of man. ...as He has always done! For example, Elijah would come, God repents of what He had done, the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, the 10 kings that would rise, the rising of the Beast from the sea, etc. No beast is going to very literally rise from the sea, but God is explaining a rise of evil in the vernacular of a devouring beast, so that man can understand its nature. Likewise, the dead in Christ have ALREADY risen in the First Resurrection, so they will not "very literally" rise again from the dead. They're not literally dead, they are in Christ (thus never die) and from man's earthly/humanistic perspective, have died.

John 11:25-26

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Thus, those who have died (in man's way of thinking) very literally never really died. And Christ will bring them with Him when He returns. We know they never died. But from man's perspective, they died, and at the last day will be risen from the grave again.

I confess, what you've learned about dead literal bodies being raised, is widely believed. Even by many really sound Christians. Because there are difficult passages for many people to reconcile with the rest of scripture. The truth is, first, the dead will rise from the dead, because from man's perspective they were put in the grave and they are dead. So it's not a contradiction.

Philippians 1:21

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain."

What? Paul can never die. But the word is written this way because from our human perspective, when Paul ceases to be in the body of flesh, He has died. But from the true perspective, God's perspective, which is the Kingdom perspective of eternal life, He never died (John 11:26).

Likewise, the dead in Christ lived and they believed in Christ, so they could never have actually died. So is this an unsolvable dichotomy? Not really. Because the Bible is written by an all understanding God, to fallible men who see through a glass darkly. And so from man's perspective, they died and were buried down in a grave. Thus seeing them come back again is spoken of as them "rising from the dead." Even though from the "true" and Spiritual sense, they most certainly have never died, and have never been dead down in the grave, but living and reigning with Christ in the paradise of heaven. Thus the language, the dead in Christ shall first rise, simply illustrates those Christians who died (from man's perspective), and shall rise up to life again. The people who have died (humanistically speaking, died) as Christians, shall the people on earth see as risen with Christ. And the Christians living on earth observing this shall be caught up in the air to join them. Those who sleep (died) in Jesus, will God bring with him, because they live and reign with Him in heaven. They can't come with Him if they are not with Him. Selah.

As I always encourage, we have to consider not just a "sentence or word" in scripture, but the whole context, in context, and in harmony with the "REST" of the Bible. Else we will always have confusion and erroneous suppositions. Because the Christian dead (them that sleep) are absolutely with Christ, not in the bodies in the grave today! Are we to suppose that the saints will be put back in their dead bodies on the last day just to be raised to be with Christ in the air? The whole idea is disjointed and inconsistent! The facts are, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And to be present in our body (in the ground or otherwise) is to be absent from the Lord. God told us, when the Apostle Paul would leave his body in death, he would be present with the Lord. Thus he is absent from the body of death. So, the passage in question becomes clear in context:

1st Thessalonians 4:13

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

We need not worry about Christians who sleep or have died (humanistically speaking), because the Christian hope is eternal life after death, not a mystic limbo state in a grave on earth awaiting resurrection at the Second Coming. God's promise is sure to His people, and it is only the unsaved that have no hope of life never ceasing.

1st Thessalonians 4:14

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The dead in Christ are with Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:8 ) , and as He died and rose again, so those In Christ had part in that same FIRST Resurrection, and thus will Christ bring with Him when He comes. They live with Him and that is why He can bring them with Him. They are not in bodies in the grave, they are not in rotting corpses, they are not waiting there to be resurrected a second time. Only "THE REST OF THE DEAD" (unbelievers who did not take part of the First Resurrection) are. They will be resurrected from death to stand before God and be judged. Christ can't possibly bring the saints with him (unless He is also in the ground), if they are not with Him in heaven in the FIRST place.

1st Thessalonians 4:15

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."

God explains that Christians who are alive on the earth on the last day, when Christ returns on the clouds of glory, will not be those who will precede those Christians who have already died (are asleep). The word translated prevent is the Greek [phthano], meaning before, and by extension, to precede. We're not going to be first, the first are those dead whom Christ will bring with Him. They have the prominent position of the Dead who are with Christ First. These are those whom Christ shall bring with Him with the trump of God.

1st Thessalonians 4:16

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

The Kingdom is coming from heaven, not on Earth (except those who remain alive on earth), and its true coming is personified in Christ, the Chief Messenger who descends from heaven with a shout. We on earth shall not precede the dead in Christ who we shall see rise first. From our (earthly) perspective, they are those risen from the dead.

1st Thessalonians 4:16

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Then those of us who have not previously died, will be Raptured up to be with the Lord AND the dead in Christ who He has brought with Him, and so shall we forever be with Him.

It's not a declaration that there are saints in the grave living in rotting corpses, that shall arise. Nor that the saints were in Limbo and then returned back with their corpses in order that they rise to meet the Lord. That is Ludicrous. Flesh and Blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom, therefore why would a corpse be reconstituted for the Souls of the saints? It makes no sense. Likewise, those of us who remain on earth aren't going to be keeping our earthly bodies either, we will be changed instantly, proving there is absolutely no want or need for the earthly body whatsoever!! So why would bodies in the ground rise up from the grave? No bodies are going to be rising up from the grave. The dead are rising only in the sense that people on earth see the dead in Christ coming back from the dead (in the human vernacular).

1st Corinthians 15:51-52

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The dead DO rise again (come back from the dead) incorruptible, and the living DO put off their earthly bodies to "Join Them," instantly putting on that same incorruption. Because the mortal man must put on immortality. It has nothing to do with literally rising bodies from the literal graves, but those who have died rising again. Many Christians don't even have a grave today. They were burned into lime and scattered, eaten by fish so that there is nothing but wastes left. There is no point in reconstitution of corruptible bodies, just so they can be changed again instantly. Again, it makes no sense because it's NOT true.

Truth7t7 · Jan 28, 2025

TribulationSigns said:
False claim!

But not as some people understand the phrase Humanistically, but as God intended it to mean those who have died will be raised up again. Not literally corpses coming out of graves caves or out of the dirt in the ground, but God is simply saying, the dead shall rise again. He is speaking in the vernacular of man. ...as He has always done! For example, Elijah would come, God repents of what He had done, the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, the 10 kings that would rise, the rising of the Beast from the sea, etc. No beast is going to very literally rise from the sea, but God is explaining a rise of evil in the vernacular of a devouring beast, so that man can understand its nature. Likewise, the dead in Christ have ALREADY risen in the First Resurrection, so they will not "very literally" rise again from the dead. They're not literally dead, they are in Christ (thus never die) and from man's earthly/humanistic perspective, have died.

John 11:25-26

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Thus, those who have died (in man's way of thinking) very literally never really died. And Christ will bring them with Him when He returns. We know they never died. But from man's perspective, they died, and at the last day will be risen from the grave again.

I confess, what you've learned about dead literal bodies being raised, is widely believed. Even by many really sound Christians. Because there are difficult passages for many people to reconcile with the rest of scripture. The truth is, first, the dead will rise from the dead, because from man's perspective they were put in the grave and they are dead. So it's not a contradiction.

Philippians 1:21

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain."

What? Paul can never die. But the word is written this way because from our human perspective, when Paul ceases to be in the body of flesh, He has died. But from the true perspective, God's perspective, which is the Kingdom perspective of eternal life, He never died (John 11:26).

Likewise, the dead in Christ lived and they believed in Christ, so they could never have actually died. So is this an unsolvable dichotomy? Not really. Because the Bible is written by an all understanding God, to fallible men who see through a glass darkly. And so from man's perspective, they died and were buried down in a grave. Thus seeing them come back again is spoken of as them "rising from the dead." Even though from the "true" and Spiritual sense, they most certainly have never died, and have never been dead down in the grave, but living and reigning with Christ in the paradise of heaven. Thus the language, the dead in Christ shall first rise, simply illustrates those Christians who died (from man's perspective), and shall rise up to life again. The people who have died (humanistically speaking, died) as Christians, shall the people on earth see as risen with Christ. And the Christians living on earth observing this shall be caught up in the air to join them. Those who sleep (died) in Jesus, will God bring with him, because they live and reign with Him in heaven. They can't come with Him if they are not with Him. Selah.

As I always encourage, we have to consider not just a "sentence or word" in scripture, but the whole context, in context, and in harmony with the "REST" of the Bible. Else we will always have confusion and erroneous suppositions. Because the Christian dead (them that sleep) are absolutely with Christ, not in the bodies in the grave today! Are we to suppose that the saints will be put back in their dead bodies on the last day just to be raised to be with Christ in the air? The whole idea is disjointed and inconsistent! The facts are, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And to be present in our body (in the ground or otherwise) is to be absent from the Lord. God told us, when the Apostle Paul would leave his body in death, he would be present with the Lord. Thus he is absent from the body of death. So, the passage in question becomes clear in context:

1st Thessalonians 4:13

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

We need not worry about Christians who sleep or have died (humanistically speaking), because the Christian hope is eternal life after death, not a mystic limbo state in a grave on earth awaiting resurrection at the Second Coming. God's promise is sure to His people, and it is only the unsaved that have no hope of life never ceasing.

1st Thessalonians 4:14

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The dead in Christ are with Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:8 ) , and as He died and rose again, so those In Christ had part in that same FIRST Resurrection, and thus will Christ bring with Him when He comes. They live with Him and that is why He can bring them with Him. They are not in bodies in the grave, they are not in rotting corpses, they are not waiting there to be resurrected a second time. Only "THE REST OF THE DEAD" (unbelievers who did not take part of the First Resurrection) are. They will be resurrected from death to stand before God and be judged. Christ can't possibly bring the saints with him (unless He is also in the ground), if they are not with Him in heaven in the FIRST place.

1st Thessalonians 4:15

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."

God explains that Christians who are alive on the earth on the last day, when Christ returns on the clouds of glory, will not be those who will precede those Christians who have already died (are asleep). The word translated prevent is the Greek [phthano], meaning before, and by extension, to precede. We're not going to be first, the first are those dead whom Christ will bring with Him. They have the prominent position of the Dead who are with Christ First. These are those whom Christ shall bring with Him with the trump of God.

1st Thessalonians 4:16

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

The Kingdom is coming from heaven, not on Earth (except those who remain alive on earth), and its true coming is personified in Christ, the Chief Messenger who descends from heaven with a shout. We on earth shall not precede the dead in Christ who we shall see rise first. From our (earthly) perspective, they are those risen from the dead.

1st Thessalonians 4:16

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Then those of us who have not previously died, will be Raptured up to be with the Lord AND the dead in Christ who He has brought with Him, and so shall we forever be with Him.

It's not a declaration that there are saints in the grave living in rotting corpses, that shall arise. Nor that the saints were in Limbo and then returned back with their corpses in order that they rise to meet the Lord. That is Ludicrous. Flesh and Blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom, therefore why would a corpse be reconstituted for the Souls of the saints? It makes no sense. Likewise, those of us who remain on earth aren't going to be keeping our earthly bodies either, we will be changed instantly, proving there is absolutely no want or need for the earthly body whatsoever!! So why would bodies in the ground rise up from the grave? No bodies are going to be rising up from the grave. The dead are rising only in the sense that people on earth see the dead in Christ coming back from the dead (in the human vernacular).

1st Corinthians 15:51-52

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The dead DO rise again (come back from the dead) incorruptible, and the living DO put off their earthly bodies to "Join Them," instantly putting on that same incorruption. Because the mortal man must put on immortality. It has nothing to do with literally rising bodies from the literal graves, but those who have died rising again. Many Christians don't even have a grave today. They were burned into lime and scattered, eaten by fish so that there is nothing but wastes left. There is no point in reconstitution of corruptible bodies, just so they can be changed again instantly. Again, it makes no sense because it's NOT true.

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