So............I'm still wondering what
@Episkopos thinks of those Romans 4 scriptures. Will he address them?
I will do what you are unable to do...address the OP...in this case address what blocks your understanding.
Rom. 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Here we have a very foundational truth...that many who have NOT progressed beyond
the first step of a beginner believe to be the final word. But Romans moves through this chapter....while most people won't. This is a process of going from a human faith into the power of resurrection and eternal life. At this stage we are still in the power of the flesh.
This is pertaining TO THE FLESH (Sarx...in the sin nature...in
the power of the flesh) so while people are still NOT spiritual in Christ. It's about what we can do BEFORE regeneration. There is a level of righteousness on THAT level...
a human righteousness.
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
People can be justified either by faith OR by works. But Paul is defending the justification that is NOT by works Why? Because entrance INTO Christ and the higher justification is ONLY by faith. Paul is being very specific on the path that leads (the flow chart, as it were) into eternal life. Is eternal life entered into by works? No. Only by grace through faith.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
It certainly does. But the bible also says that Phinehas was ALSO justified...by killing 2 people...a work...and it was credited to him (imputed to him) for righteousness. Did Paul know this? Of course. But he wasn't interested in a pathway ( a flow chart) that didn't lead to holiness. Paul's specific explanation has to be understood in the context of the whole bible. Or else people will obscure the path to life.
4. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
God will repay. Grace is a gift. At the level of grace the rewards are very different....not of debt...but of God's good pleasure. Faith pleases God.
5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness.
The ungodly are the non-Jews the non- Christians. The very people that religious bigots quickly condemn. So then those who hold this dogmatic judgment on the ungodly are NOT justified. God has mercy on the merciful. We all start off as ungodly. This is about the very first step.
6. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
David was NOT regenerated in the Spirit. He calls on God to judge him based on his own righteousness...according to the power of the flesh.
Notice this...
The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD,
according to my righteousness, and according to
mine integrity that is in me. Ps. 7:8
David understood that each person is to be judged according to THEIR righteousness. (unless YOUR righteous exceed that of hypocrites)....
Further proof that Paul is speaking about the common level of righteousness achievable by faith.....human faith.
9. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that
faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Twisters of the bible will add in...Of Christ...or Of GOD to that imputation. But Paul is speaking specifically of those who are NOT yet in Christ. The imputation of righteousness on those who trusted in God is an OLD TESTAMENT standard. Like the Publican who beat his chest and stated that he was NOT worthy. Did he then
justify himself as so many now do? Of course not. Otherwise he would no longer be righteous. The righteous NEVER consider themselves as righteous...only the SELF- righteous make that claim. Sound familiar? Do you claim to be righteous based on your religious beliefs? If you do then you have nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham and the lesson that Paul is explaining.
12. And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
BEFORE regeneration. Before knowing the Lord.
13. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (Therefore “the meek shall inherit the earth” – is not through their own works/righteousness but through the righteousness of faith)
Heir of the world...NOT the kingdom..
NOT the holy city. Paul is speaking of the lower walk here.
The meek are ALL the meek...not those who have experienced resurrection life...but all those who have faith in God. No mention of Christ in this chapter.
14. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the PROMISE made of none effect
No need to follow a law for justification if one trusts in the living God to do the impossible. God loves our faith...not our religious beliefs and the assumptions and presumptions that arise from a religious certainty. God rejects pretenders. He hates hypocrites.
Since you want to stop at the beginning...you will not understand anything beyond the very first step of the Christian walk....in fact...you will go backward...more and more. Unless you see the progressive nature of the walk.
No mention of Christ in this chapter. NO mention of holiness. No mention of eternal life. And so many are stuck right there...at this beginner stage. But these JUSTIFY themselves as believers as if they were far more advanced than being the novices in the faith that they truly are.
