No authority!

[theefaith]

The one true church is every true believer with whatever gift(s) they possess, scattered to the four corners of the world. Because of the business model of the church today it is impossible to assemble a pure, undefiled group of believers into a one true physical church.

Read

MORTALIUM ANIMOS


ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON RELIGIOUS UNITY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE.




12. Let, therefore, the separated children draw nigh to the Apostolic See, set up in the City which Peter and Paul, the Princes of the Apostles, consecrated by their blood; to that See, We repeat, which is "the root and womb whence the Church of God springs,"[27] not with the intention and the hope that "the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"[28] will cast aside the integrity of the faith and tolerate their errors, but, on the contrary, that they themselves submit to its teaching and government. Would that it were Our happy lot to do that which so many of Our predecessors could not, to embrace with fatherly affection those children, whose unhappy separation from Us We now bewail. Would that God our Savior, "Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,"[29] would hear us when We humbly beg that He would deign to recall all who stray to the unity of the Church! In this most important undertaking We ask and wish that others should ask the prayers of Blessed Mary the Virgin, Mother of divine grace, victorious over all heresies and Help of Christians, that She may implore for Us the speedy coming of the much hoped-for day, when all men shall hear the voice of Her divine Son, and shall be "careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."[30]

(I know a rare exception not to give scripture) So I add Jn 10:16

 

[theefaith]

If you think this is only limited to a select and few called priests of the Catholic church why are you and your friends here usurping their authority?

succesors

 

[theefaith]

If you think this is only limited to a select and few called priests of the Catholic church why are you and your friends here usurping their authority?

apostle is one who is sent

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read

MORTALIUM ANIMOS


ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI
ON RELIGIOUS UNITY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS, AND OTHER LOCAL ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE.




12. Let, therefore, the separated children draw nigh to the Apostolic See, set up in the City which Peter and Paul, the Princes of the Apostles, consecrated by their blood; to that See, We repeat, which is "the root and womb whence the Church of God springs,"[27] not with the intention and the hope that "the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"[28] will cast aside the integrity of the faith and tolerate their errors, but, on the contrary, that they themselves submit to its teaching and government. Would that it were Our happy lot to do that which so many of Our predecessors could not, to embrace with fatherly affection those children, whose unhappy separation from Us We now bewail. Would that God our Savior, "Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,"[29] would hear us when We humbly beg that He would deign to recall all who stray to the unity of the Church! In this most important undertaking We ask and wish that others should ask the prayers of Blessed Mary the Virgin, Mother of divine grace, victorious over all heresies and Help of Christians, that She may implore for Us the speedy coming of the much hoped-for day, when all men shall hear the voice of Her divine Son, and shall be "careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."[30]

(I know a rare exception not to give scripture) So I add Jn 10:16

Oh my gosh! lol. I'll dig into this later, lol.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Only true believers have the Holy Spirit and, therefore, the power to discern which teachers are teaching them the truth, and which teachers are not. The parable of the weeds in the field show us that there is no pure field of believers in this world—Catholic or anti-Catholic. Fake believers exist among the true believers so that you can't identify any one pure field of God. The true body of believers are spread out in the fields of the world among the unbelievers.

Funny you should bring up the Parable of the Weeds because this is precisely what happened in the 16th century.
There have ALWAYS been "weeds" in the Church - but NOT to the extent that they sprouted up then and continue to grow now.

However - this parable oesn't imply that Christ's Church is an "invisible" body of "true" believers.
He has a VISIBLE Church and those believers and weeds have existed together from the beginnning.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

apostle is one who is sent

Which you are claiming is only the Catholic priesthood. So what are you doing here!

 

[theefaith]

apostle is one who is sent

1. Romans 10:14
   How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Romans 10:15
   And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[theefaith]

Which you are claiming is only the Catholic priesthood. So what are you doing here!

no the apostles

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is how we are supposed to meet.....

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church.27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak in turn, and someone must interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent in the church and speak only to himself and God.29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace—as in all the churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:26-33​

Let me know when the one and only true and accurate Catholic church starts obeying Paul's counsel.

Funny how you conveniently LEFT OUT the entire Eucharistic celebration that Paul speaks of (1 Corinthians 11:23-26).
You ALSO left out Paul's admonition for how to PREPARE oneself for the Eucharist (1 Cor. 11:28-29).

You ALSO left out the fact that Paul's writings aren't the ONLY place we hear about what to do when we meet:
Acts 2:46-47
And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

And I won't go into too much detail about the fact that the blueprint for the Mass can be found in the Book of Revelaton, but:

Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend Mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the Mass here on earth.
Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.
Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.
Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.
Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.
Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.
Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.
Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.
Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.
Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.
Finally, in Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4, we read that heaven's concluding liturgical prayer “Amen” is the very one that is recited at the end of the Mass on earth.

So, let me know when you anti-Catholics start worshipping in the truly Biblical way . . .

 

[theefaith]

Let us learn our bibles well . And test all who do speak , teach and instruct against biblical doctrine .

Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that
should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[theefaith]

REJOICE IN JESUS CHRIST I SAY . For if Rome rejects you Ye know it has rejected the true JESUS first .

REJOICE IN JESUS CHRIST I SAY . For if Rome rejects you Ye know it has rejected the true JESUS first .

evidence???? No documentation ever!

 

[theefaith]

Only accusations attacks protests

no evidence required
No documentation required

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Where in scripture does it say this power to forgive sins would vanish with the death of the last Apostle??? That's Mormonism. Why do non-Catholic Christians have to be so dogmatic about something that is not in scripture???

For the record, LDS Christians ("Mormons") firmly believe that the Apostles powers continue after the death of the original 12 apostles.

 

[Illuminator]

For the record, LDS Christians ("Mormons") firmly believe that the Apostles powers continue after the death of the original 12 apostles.

I'll re-phrase.

Where in scripture does it say this power to forgive sins would vanish with the death of the last Apostle??? Why do non-Catholic Christians have to be so dogmatic about something that is not in scripture???

 

[Illuminator]

evidence???? No documentation ever!

@amigo de christo has no documentation, just the same boring venom that's been refuted a million times.

I don't have a problem with disagreements, it's ignorant psychotics that learn about Catholicism from uneducated bigots and "Bible Christian" hate sites.
Anti-Catholicism (Index Page for Apologist Dave Armstrong)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'll re-phrase.

Where in scripture does it say this power to forgive sins would vanish with the death of the last Apostle??? Why do non-Catholic Christians have to be so dogmatic about something that is not in scripture???

I think that this statement would be more accurate is you replaced "non-Catholic Christians" with "some Protestants". As there are plenty of non-Catholic Christians whom do acknowledge that these powers continue (LDS and Orthodox being two examples that readily come to mind).

 

[marks]

"But there is no transfer of authority here". Seriously??? I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink.

You know the other half, right? You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think.

I'm very detailed in my reading of the Bible. In this passage they are charged with the teaching of correct doctrine, not given any of various authorities over what that doctrine is, or over other people, are at all regulatory to other people's relationship with God. This is just about teaching.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Funny how you conveniently LEFT OUT the entire Eucharistic celebration that Paul speaks of (1 Corinthians 11:23-26).
You ALSO left out Paul's admonition for how to PREPARE oneself for the Eucharist (1 Cor. 11:28-29).

You ALSO left out the fact that Paul's writings aren't the ONLY place we hear about what to do when we meet:
Acts 2:46-47
And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

And I won't go into too much detail about the fact that the blueprint for the Mass can be found in the Book of Revelaton, but:

Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend Mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the Mass here on earth.
Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.
Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.
Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.
Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.
Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.
Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.
Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.
Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.
Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.
Finally, in Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4, we read that heaven's concluding liturgical prayer “Amen” is the very one that is recited at the end of the Mass on earth.

So, let me know when you anti-Catholics start worshipping in the truly Biblical way . . .

So you're not going to explain why the Catholic church does not meet the way Paul says the church is to meet? You have to because you are claiming the Catholic church is the one, true, approved and correct church. Why don't they do what the Apostle Paul said to do? And you need not deflect by pointing out the failures of the anti-Catholic churches. I know all about their failures and I'm not defending them. This discussion is about your claim that the Catholic church is the one and only approved and accurate church of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...this parable oesn't imply that Christ's Church is an "invisible" body of "true" believers.
He has a VISIBLE Church and those believers and weeds have existed together from the beginnning.

The church is not invisible. It's not visible in the form of a one, true, authorized assembly of believers. The Catholic church is corrupt. The Protestant churches are corrupted. You can't find the true church of God the way you are saying the Catholic church is the one true church. It doesn't exist that way anymore. And it won't until we put an end to the business model of doing church and remove the wealth and power incentive built into our religious organizations that attract blind, spiritless leaders who lead churches into cold, dead, empty religious liturgy and the creation of complicated and overblown teachings of men and away from God.

 

[marks]

then it’s not your personal covenant or salvation

I'm not the only one, of course!

But He has come to me, and brought me to Him.

Much love!