No authority!

[BreadOfLife]

Any two or three people can do this. Jesus said so.

But you're kinda missing the point about the priesthood. Hebrews tells us we have a new High Priest, Jesus. And that he makes all other high priests obsolete, as if they were of much use at what they did anyway. You really do need to get with the New Program. It's not a remake of the old program. It's a NEW program. The Catholics have retained the old system of mortal priesthood and carnal sacrifice and put a new covenant spin on it and placed it in between God and man.

You've got to get it through your head that there are no more earthly priests. Not elders, not prophets, not teachers...priests. There is no need whatsoever for a human priest to represent you before God anymore. JESUS does that now, and in a far better and permanent way than any weak human can do. And every believer has direct access to this Perfect High Priest, Jesus, via the Holy Spirit. We don't need anyone to connect us to this New High Priest.

It is because we have the same Spirit in us that is in Jesus that we enter vicariously with Jesus into the Holy of Holies. We are part of Jesus himself. We don't need your priesthood to do what Jesus is doing for us now, and doing in a far better and permanent way than any human is capable of doing. We simply do not need your Catholic priesthood. We need pastors, and teachers, and prophets, and leaders. But we do not need a priesthood. Christ himself set that old inferior way aside with the appearance and installation of his far superior Priesthood, directly available to even the least of God's people.

Nonsense.
What Jesus said in Matt. 19:18-19 has NOTHING to do with what James wrote in James 5:14 or what Paul wrote in 2 Cor. 5:18-20.

James clearly talks about the "Presbuteros" praying over, anointing and bringing about the FORGIVENESS of sins of the sick - NOT the laity.

Paul explicitly states that God gave "US" the ministry of Reconciliation as he was writing to his readers.
He differentiates the "US" (Presbyters) from the "YOU" (Laity):
"So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God appealing THROUGH US. WE implore YOU to be reconciled to God."

This is the very definition of what a "Priest" is.
You have perverted Scripture with your novel inventions because you forget the the NT is the FULFILLMENT of the OT.

As I schooled you earlier - in the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
-Aaron, the High Priest
-The Levitical Priesthood
-The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
-Ministerial Priesthood (James 5:14-15)
-The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious and perfect than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right. Christ is the head of the church, not self-proclaimed successors to people who are not the head of the church.

You say this out of Scriptural ignorance and nothing else . . .

Pharoah was ruler of Egypt.
Joseph was his chief representative.

God gave Eliakim was given the Keys to the House of Israel - so HE opened NONE should shut, and whatever HE shut remained shut.
GOD was the Head over Israel.

Jesus is the Head of the Church.
He gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom - that WHATEVER HE bound or loosed on earth was bound and loosed in Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is just another example of how the Catholics make it so you can do what the Bible says not to do. This is the very spirit of deceit.

What would happen if a common street person tried to hug the Pope? You and I both know what would happen. You can only approach the Pope in an authorized and prescribed manner, right? And that authorized and prescribed manner is exactly what we're talking about here. If the Pope was nonchalant and just cruised around the hood hugging and kissing everybody we'd get it, but that is not what the Catholics are doing when they approach the Pope in the authorized way. They are told how to do it. Peter would never set up a system on how to approach him in love and respect and honor. He wasn't that arrogant and high minded. Popes are.

Another unrealistic and ridiculous comparison.

We live in an age of mass and social media, sophisticated weaponry - not to mention the 100% probability of a RIOT occurring if the Pope was to simply "nonchalantlt cruise around" the streets as YOU so foolishly suggest.

For your information - the current Pope WANTED to walk over the Mexico border into California when he visited - but that idea was shot down by the U.S. government because it would have been a logistical and security nightmare.

In case you forgot - this isn't the First century

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul explicitly states that God gave "US" the ministry of Reconciliation as he was writing to his readers.
He differentiates the "US" (Presbyters) from the "YOU" (Laity):
"So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God appealing THROUGH US. WE implore YOU to be reconciled to God."

Anybody so gifted can do this....

...because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:15-16​

There is the office of evangelist, and there are those gifted in evangelism and who serve in no particular official office. Any believer can perform the priestly duty of, for example, leading people to Christ. You don't have to be a Catholic priest to do this. We don't need the Catholic church to do this. The Catholic priesthood is not the only ones that can do this.

 

[Wrangler]

You say this out of Scriptural ignorance and nothing else . . .

No. You claim right of succession that is not in Scripture.

Christ is the head, not Peter’s descendants.

 

[Taken]

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Okie dokie, need my address?

 

[Taken]

What are you talking about?
The Catholic Church has never taught that Peter was anything BUT a Jew.

A gentile'S pope.

 

[Taken]

In other words - you don't have an intelligent response.
That's what I thought . . .

Wrong- my own words are sufficient.
Thinking again fails you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

do this offer the sacrifice not just a memorial meal

now we say one way you say the other
Who decides?
That’s why Christ founded a church to teach the truth

No that is why He inspired the Scriptures so we can know the truth!

Teh church is to preserve, protect, and pass on the Word without altering it!

Jesus did not say of the bread and wine- do this to repeat what I did on the cross. NO ! He said when you do this, remember me!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it does Christ and his church are one
The church teaches what Christ taught

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20 with His church (apostles) till the end!

Prove Jesus taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, was conceived without a sin nature, did not sin, had no other children, she is comediatirx and co redemptrix of humanity and is th emother of God.

I await your quotes from the Lord Jesus Christ on these matters. I will even take the words of the original apostles!

 

[theefaith]

Right. Christ is the head of the church, not self-proclaimed successors to people who are not the head of the church.

Christ is the head! But He ascended to heaven so now: who’s in charge
Or who is the head on earth in His place?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Another unrealistic and ridiculous comparison.

We live in an age of mass and social media, sophisticated weaponry - not to mention the 100% probability of a RIOT occurring if the Pope was to simply "nonchalantlt cruise around" the streets as YOU so foolishly suggest.

For your information - the current Pope WANTED to walk over the Mexico border into California when he visited - but that idea was shot down by the U.S. government because it would have been a logistical and security nightmare.

In case you forgot - this isn't the First century

Tell me bowing down and kissing his ring is not the prescribed way Catholics are told they must approach the Pope.

 

[theefaith]

Nobody has any grief against water baptism itself. What we don't agree on is the Catholic contention that water baptism makes you righteous, like it was thought circumcision or Sabbath keeping made you righteous as just payment for your obedience to those works. Faith, all by itself, apart from works is what makes a person righteous. Paul goes way back before the law and to the example of the highly esteemed and honored Abraham to make this point to the Jews and to all who think justification (being made righteous) is granted as payment for your obedience to God's commands. It's not. As Abraham shows us, justification comes solely through believing God's promise of a Son who will inherit the blessing on your behalf.

If baptism does not make you righteous and a member of the church then it’s meaningless!


Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Christ is the head! But He ascended to heaven so now: who’s in charge
Or who is the head on earth in His place?

Various pastors, elders, teachers, and administrators. Certainly not a mortal high priest called a pope. And not 'head' as in THE Head, that position belongs to Christ alone. No Pope, no person, occupies that office. Peter didn't even occupy that space. He referred to himself as a fellow elder.

 

[theefaith]

EVERY believer serves a priestly ministry in God's temple.

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5​

All believers themselves make spiritual sacrifices to God. We don't need no Catholic priesthood to interfere in that! We are the priesthood. Jesus is the High Priest, not your Pope. Your pope might have a calling to a particular office like pastor, or elder, or teacher, but he ain't no high priest. He's a priest like the rest of us in the way Peter and Paul talk about that, but he surely ain't a required high priest that must minister between God and his people. Jesus does that now. And every believer has direct access via the Holy Spirit to Him and His Father. No earthly priesthood needed anymore for that purpose. God instituted a new program. The old program has been laid aside as useless and obsolete and unneeded now. The Catholics painted a new covenant face on an old and dead system.

yes and more
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royalpriesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
But for Christ to be high priest there MUST be low of the same order
Therefore not the priesthood of the faithful or royal priesthood but of the ministerial order of Melchizedek!!!

 

[theefaith]

Okie dokie, need my address?

Apostles in person or else how can you comply with Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

[theefaith]

No that is why He inspired the Scriptures so we can know the truth!

Teh church is to preserve, protect, and pass on the Word without altering it!

Jesus did not say of the bread and wine- do this to repeat what I did on the cross. NO ! He said when you do this, remember me!

IS; THIS IS MY BODY!

that’s why the church is commanded to teach the truth! Or you can never have Jn 8:32 and 16:13 and
1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[theefaith]

Prove Jesus taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, was conceived without a sin nature, did not sin, had no other children, she is comediatirx and co redemptrix of humanity and is th emother of God.

I await your quotes from the Lord Jesus Christ on these matters. I will even take the words of the original apostles!

ALL DIVINE REVELATION came in its fulfillment thru Jesus Christ!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If baptism does not make you righteous and a member of the church then it’s meaningless!

If baptism MAKES you righteous then "faith means nothing and the promise is worthless"-Romans 4:14. Justification is by faith APART FROM WORKS. (Remember, I discredited your redefinition of works by citing the example of circumcision).

 

[theefaith]

Various pastors, elders, teachers, and administrators. Certainly not a mortal high priest called a pope. And not 'head' as in THE Head, that position belongs to Christ alone. No Pope, no person, occupies that office. Peter didn't even occupy that space. He referred to himself as a fellow elder.

The keys mean something you need to take off your Protestant colored glasses and come in Jn 8:32


Fathers have care of their children, spiritual fathers care for our souls!

Pope, papa, father, yes spiritual father!

Isa 22 father

Christ is the head of the church!
Peter is appointed by Christ as the head of the church on earth!
Supreme pastor and teacher of the faithful!

Matt 10:2
First apostle Peter:

Matt 17:27
Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Peter commanded to confirm his breathren:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Matt 10:2
Peter is the prince of the apostles, head of the universal church on earth!

Jn 20:21-23
Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins:

Acts 1:15 1:17 1:26
Peter declares Judas office of apostle valid and vacant and chooses a successor:

Acts 2:14
Peter preaches the first sermon on Pentecost:

Acts 2:38
Peter requires baptism as the outward sign and initiation into the new covenant!

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 5 authority of the apostles verified by them being stricken dead by God verifying Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles have the light of the Holy Spirit!


1 Tim 1 Paul is Timothy’s spiritual father.
1 Jn 2:1 little children are adult Christians, John is their spiritual father.

Apostles have Care for our souls
(Acts 20:28 Jn 21:17 Heb 13:17)