For free will believers out there

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You have no scripture to back up your point of view...

However we have scripture to back up our point of view that you will be condemned if you continue to stay in unbelief and denial as concerning the doctrine of the Deity of Christ.

Exo 3:14, And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jhn 8:24, I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

John 3:16 tells us it's the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the world that whosoever exercises faith in him will not perish but attain eternal life. It's those that exercise faith that God loved the World of mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son. God didn't send himself he sent his Only Begotten Son, you exercise faith in that or you don't.

The book of John was written in the Greek language, not in Hebrew; and in the Greek text the controversial expression is Egó eimí. Just by itself, without any introductory material ahead of it, Egó eimí means “I am.” Now this expression Egó eimí occurs also in John 8:24, 28; and in those verses the Authorized or King James Version and the Douay Version and others render the expression into English as “I am he,” the pronoun he being put in italics to indicate that the pronoun he is added or inserted. (AV; AS; Yg) But here, in John 8:58, those versions do not render this same expression as “I am he,” but only as “I am.” They want to give us the idea that Jesus was not simply referring to his existence but also giving himself a title that belongs to Jehovah God, in imitation of Exodus 3:14. The thing is this, that when exodus 3:14 was translated from hebrew to greek the greek word Egó eimí wasn't there as it is at John 8:24,28 so how could John have been trying to make out that Jesus is the True God when exodus 3:14 when translated into greek language doesn't even have the greek word Egó eimí as John 8:24,28 does.

 

[justbyfaith]

John 3:16 tells us it's the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the world that whosoever exercises faith in him will not perish but attain eternal life. It's those that exercise faith that God loved the World of mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son. God didn't send himself he sent his Only Begotten Son, you exercise faith in that or you don't.

The book of John was written in the Greek language, not in Hebrew; and in the Greek text the controversial expression is Egó eimí. Just by itself, without any introductory material ahead of it, Egó eimí means “I am.” Now this expression Egó eimí occurs also in John 8:24, 28; and in those verses the Authorized or King James Version and the Douay Version and others render the expression into English as “I am he,” the pronoun he being put in italics to indicate that the pronoun he is added or inserted. (AV; AS; Yg) But here, in John 8:58, those versions do not render this same expression as “I am he,” but only as “I am.” They want to give us the idea that Jesus was not simply referring to his existence but also giving himself a title that belongs to Jehovah God, in imitation of Exodus 3:14. The thing is this, that when exodus 3:14 was translated from hebrew to greek the greek word Egó eimí wasn't there as it is at John 8:24,28 so how could John have been trying to make out that Jesus is the True God when exodus 3:14 when translated into greek language doesn't even have the greek word Egó eimí as John 8:24,28 does.

You also have to consider what it says in English; for the translation in English is also valid and even inspired.

For God is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving; and therefore He is not going to allow his unadulterated message to be compromised when the translation into English is made.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Also, it was the Father who became the only begotten Son of God when He incarnated and took on an added nature of human flesh.



Isa 9:6, For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This scripture doesn't say that God became human simply because it uses phrases like, "The everlasting Father, mighty God and so forth. For one thing the Only True God has no Father or God, yet Jesus said he has a Father and God who is our Father and God.(John 20:17) Jesus said this even after he was resurrected from the dead as a life giving spirit. So since the Only Begotten Son of God has a Father who is also our Father, the phrase, "The Everlasting Father," that applies to Jesus can't mean he's the Only True God.
When it comes to the phrase, "Mighty God," in connection to Jesus, yes he is a mighty God but he isn't the Almighty God a person who Jesus says is his Father and God because the Father and God of Jesus which he says is our Father and God is the Almighty God this expression is never applied to Jesus Christ. So yes Jesus is a mighty God but he isn't the Almighty God because that expression is never applied to the Only Begotten Son of God Jesus Christ it's only applied to Jesus Father and God who he says is our Father and God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I think you got me confused with someone else.

God impregnated Miriam...cast His seed in her womb...the old fashion way. LOL She conceived and delivered the Savior of the World. Christ is a God born of a woman...the only begotten Son of Yahweh....so take that Tonto!

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human. The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Loʹgos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, meaning before he was human he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You also have to consider what it says in English; for the translation in English is also valid and even inspired.

For God is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving; and therefore He is not going to allow his unadulterated message to be compromised when the translation into English is made.

No translations of the scriptures are not inspired of God. In fact the original writings that God inspired have decayed many centuries ago. What we have are copies of copies of copies. Copies that go back centuries.

 

[Renniks]

For anyone's information.

Jesus was MADE God after his God resurrected him from the dead.

Thomas was the first to get that revelation.

Jesus was always God.

"Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am !”

 

[Grailhunter]

The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human.

Taze Russell 4:23 The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human.
Jehovah's wrote their own Bible so why not go all the way.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God.

Taze Russell 18:23 The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human.
Good that it appears in your Bible because you are not going to find the phrase "Only Begotten Son of God before he became human..." in the Christian Bible In the Christian Bible it is more of like Son of God...begotten of Yahweh and Son of man...delivered by Miriam.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God.

No contest...hands down the Son of God.

This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus.

You find a detailed description of how Miriam conceived or that His birth occurred anyway other than normally....let me know, because we would probably make money on it.

This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Loʹgos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, meaning before he was human he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.

Yeap, I bet the Son of God is all over the OT. Maybe they had a picnic. I bet God the Father and God the Son had hundreds of conversations in the Old Testament... Now go find where God the Father and God the Son work as a team on anything in the OT.

 

[justbyfaith]

No translations of the scriptures are not inspired of God.

If by that you mean that every translation is inspired of the Lord, then I would partially disagree with you. I don't believe that the NeWT is inspired of the Lord; but most every other translation has their merits. Many of the modern translations omit things out of the text that are included in the kjv....so I would say that they are watered down.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Taze Russell 4:23 The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human.
Jehovah's wrote their own Bible so why not go all the way.


Taze Russell 18:23 The Only Begotten Son of God was a Only Begotten Son of God before he became human.
Good that it appears in your Bible because you are not going to find the phrase "Only Begotten Son of God before he became human..." in the Christian Bible In the Christian Bible it is more of like Son of God...begotten of Yahweh and Son of man...delivered by Miriam.



No contest...hands down the Son of God.


You find a detailed description of how Miriam conceived or that His birth occurred anyway other than normally....let me know, because we would probably make money on it.



Yeap, I bet the Son of God is all over the OT. Maybe they had a picnic. I bet God the Father and God the Son had hundreds of conversations in the Old Testament... Now go find where God the Father and God the Son work as a team on anything in the OT.

What I find interesting about all people like you that speaks about against this Bible and that Bible. The plain fact is when it comes to the history of Bibles each translation was spoken out against. So I really don't listen to people like you who are simply doing what people of the past have done.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If by that you mean that every translation is inspired of the Lord, then I would partially disagree with you. I don't believe that the NeWT is inspired of the Lord; but most every other translation has their merits. Many of the modern translations omit things out of the text that are included in the kjv....so I would say that they are watered down.

I'm saying no translations of the Bible are inspired of God. The inspired writings that are inpired of God have corroded in the dust centuries ago. What we have today are copies of the inspired writings.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm saying no translations of the Bible are inspired of God. The inspired writings that are inpired of God have corroded in the dust centuries ago. What we have today are copies of the inspired writings.

That is demonstrably false.

You are supplying for an agnostic view of God in this...that we cannot know His unadulterated message and that the gospel is hidden from us in manuscripts that have long been lost to us.

This is not in conjunction with what we know of God's nature. He is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving; and therefore He is not going to allow His uncompromised message to be lost but will preserve it for all generations.

I believe that He has done this with the kjv and its equivalent in other languages.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is demonstrably false.

You are supplying for an agnostic view of God in this...that we cannot know His unadulterated message and that the gospel is hidden from us in manuscripts that have long been lost to us.

This is not in conjunction with what we know of God's nature. He is both Omnipotent and sovereign and loving; and therefore He is not going to allow His uncompromised message to be lost but will preserve it for all generations.

I believe that He has done this with the kjv and its equivalent in other languages.

No I'm not, but you're ignorant enough to believe such a thing so go ahead and believe that. It's no skin off my nose. You like to lie about people and call them names just because they exercised their right to disagree with you. I'm not going to regret exercising my right to disagree simply because you want to judge someone or some organization when they disagree with you. I can understand someone disagreeing with me or the organization I belong to but when they judge and call people names and do the same with the religious organization they belong to because they disagree with you, you show who you really are. You're about hate and that's all you are about.

 

[Grailhunter]

What I find interesting about all people like you that speaks about against this Bible and that Bible. The plain fact is when it comes to the history of Bibles each translation was spoken out against. So I really don't listen to people like you who are simply doing what people of the past have done.

I am not speaking against the Bible....I am joking about the Taze Russell translation...which is not a Bible at all.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I am not speaking against the Bible....I am joking about the Taze Russell translation...which is not a Bible at all.

Yeah well just because you and others believe that, doesn't mean everyone believes that way. I'm not going to worry about what people believe about the NWT Bible or what they think about the watchtower or JW. It seems that when people speak about the watchtower like that or a fellow JW or the watchtower they seem to think I believe them to be infallible people who can't possibly be wrong about what they say. I however think everyone on this planet are imperfect humans who no matter how much they believe something is true, doesn't mean it is. That includes everyone, you and those who believe like you. So just because you believe like you do about
the NWT Bible or the watchtower doesn't mean your right. So I could care less what you think of the NWT of the Bible or the watchtower.

 

[Taken]

For free will believers out there
OP^

Freewill? Do I Believe in freewill? Yes.

However I believe Freewill has many degrees/levels/facets...

Saying that, Because Every Individual,
Is individually different, and God searches the Hearts of men.
God is Just.

(The minds thoughts, is logical, conniving, vengeful, ever increasing in knowledge, constantly changing thoughts...
The hearts thoughts, is the Natural spirit of man. A man's Natural Truth. Can be warm, or hateful, but typically constant.)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Calvinism vs. Armeniaism?

Don't have an Opinion.
Don't know each basis of Statements of Belief Standing.

Can say, there is probably, like most "denominations", people subscribing to a particular denomination who disagree with particular aspects within their own denomination.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@ Ronald Nolette

What about the tens of billions who have lived and died and never once even had a chance to hear the name Jesus even once? [/QUOTE]

The Specifics IMO of the individual come into consideration.

In one respect Scripture says:

Rom 1:
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

SEE? Without Excuse?
But then look closer...
"Clearly seen"
"They"

This gives notice...something must be "clearly seen"... before an individual is "without excuse".
Which BY default, means...
There "are" some individuals "whereby there IS a VALID Excuse."

For Example:
• An individual...that is physically blind, and age consideration, of that experience.
• An Individual...who has never heard Jesus, but sees the wonders of the world...and has never observed a man or statue making anything so magnificent ... may believe something bigger Created, but not know the terms of What is that bigger thing.
• A mentally (mindful) impaired individual, but God searches the Heart.
• A babe never having heard or seen the world, or men of the world working their Wicked ways (deceptions, trickery).
• A child, taught by surroundings, verbally and by sight, observing acceptable, corruption...can know/feel in his heart, doesn't seem right; but confused...because (his models of example) around him is accepting it, practicing it.

Point being...there is a level, of individuals... that can comprehend and can't comprehend.
All individuals, babes/children, first Trust men, and some continue on that path...particularly, if it benefits them...
While others, will begin to Trust the "forthright thoughts in their hearts...over the deception "and Consequences", they observe.

And whether or not a child matures, mentally/ physically...their HEART is what God searches...for the Goodness in a person.

• As well...we as people, more and more...make excuses for Adult behavior...
With the "Excuse"...awe he had such a "horrible childhood".
• That is Satans trickery.
• Every person (excusing mentally afficted deficient) knows the difference Between:
...Right and Wrong-
...Worldly Acceptabe Wrong As Right-
• Scripture teaches...when you grow up...
Leave mommy and daddy's household...
Many do...(and take the same good or fullwell knowing bad behaviors with them).
• The point of leaving...is Take the good, and examine the bad, that tugged on your hearts thoughts...and follow that...
• IOW- under daddy's roof...under his acceptance of OF WHAT you know is not good....Under your own roof, you are head of household...and set the behavior tolerances.

So many variables of individuals.
God IS merciful and Just.

Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

• God gives according to an individual's heart.
• Further, as a man grows...God increases the individual according to the man's works.

BE NOT mistaken...
"Works" of a "Good heart", increases, "Favorable Consequences".
"Works" of a "Deceiving heart", increases, " Unfavorablr Consequences".
Some may call "it luck or unlucky"...but truly, it hinges on "what is going on within their hearts thoughts"...
• God is Just...He rewards with what ones Heart is set on.

And BTW- a particular "denomination" is irrelevant...race, gender, age, geographical location is irrelevant...
God searches all hearts.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Yeah well just because you and others believe that, doesn't mean everyone believes that way. I'm not going to worry about what people believe about the NWT Bible or what they think about the watchtower or JW. It seems that when people speak about the watchtower like that or a fellow JW or the watchtower they seem to think I believe them to be infallible people who can't possibly be wrong about what they say. I however think everyone on this planet are imperfect humans who no matter how much they believe something is true, doesn't mean it is. That includes everyone, you and those who believe like you. So just because you believe like you do about
the NWT Bible or the watchtower doesn't mean your right. So I could care less what you think of the NWT of the Bible or the watchtower.

Look at the bright side, beliefs can be a personal thing so, since the Jehovah's Witness' bible has no legitimate scholarship or historical validity, you are free to write anything in your copy you want, and it is just as valid as anything that is already written in it.

The sky is the limit...but you might want to consider that when you are standing before Christ on Judgment Day explaining to Him that He is not a God, you also have to explain all the other twisted things you believe.

It kind makes we wonder how people pick their religious beliefs...there are over 30,000 Protestant denominations to pick from. Can you imagine walking into a Baskin' Robbins and having 30,000 ice cream flavors to choose from. But it would not help, a person like you would walk past the good stuff to pick out dog poop sherbet.

With all those Protestant denominations out there, and the vast majority of the them being valid beliefs, why do people pick a religion that denies the deity of Christ or portrays God as a satanic monster as in Calvinism. You disregard thousands of valid religions to work your way to the most sacrilegious abominations of religious beliefs?

 

[Taken]

@ Ronald Nolette

The bible celarly teaches that aprt from faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin, one is lost, what about all those who unever even had a chance to "exercise" this supposed free will?

Freewill- Is NOT always an "action" of physically "doing".

Freewill- is also two fold in "thoughts"
• Thoughts of the heart (spirit of man's Truth)
• Thoughts of the mind, can be a Truth, a conniving deception, a gathering of knowledge then locgically weighing the options between "this and that"

• it is the Mind, so easily susceptible to being tricked...(and Satan's playing field)...of Cunning trickery, by observing what you don't (know), to make a temptation sound good, (while knowing, you don't know enough to know the consequences will be dastardly).

Men mimic the same trickery. Government reps do it, Banks, Loaners, neighbors, strangers, salesmen, teachers....and on and on...
Detailing, Promoting, Focusing, Pitching; the Easy, fun, liking, deserving... blah, blah, blah.
Fact is: many fall for it on the spot, with NEVER weighing the; The true Responsibility of the RISK...
And a repeating of the same over and over...
If someone is consistently whispering in their ear...another deception...no problems...you fail at your word, your responsibility to decide, enjoying easy, fun, likes...
Eh, Dump it on someone else.
It's the Way OF the World!!!

• Freewill- thoughts and actions are afforded everyone...
• sure there are Authorities that will continually try to curb or stop your thoughts, silence you, stop your actions...
• but in most instances you are free to have your own thoughts.

And cautionary observances...
Mind control...indoctrination, brain washing, the Cunning sales pitches...Drugs have been successful "Controls"...
and as the technology advances more and more expect the trickery sales pitch to do the same. (Personally already seeing the signs).

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@ Ronald Nolette

Have to mention... Freewill to Accept or Reject Jesus is the Word of God. And the Christ, Wisdom, Power and Seed of God...

And the Awesome Offering He has made TO All men...
Freely Trust to believe, He is the Word of God;
Freely Trust to believe and Submitt YOUR acknowledgement of your Heartful Belief...
•Then comes the greatest Blessing...
No cunning man, No deceiving spirit, CAN trick you, convince you, into EVER rejecting the Lord God!!
• BY His Promise He will VIA HIS Power KEEP YOU in faithfulness to HIM Forever.

An Awesome God we have, forseeing, knowing, warning us the depths of the corrupt Deceit men shall try and Satan running full speed for his few minutes of power...
(Seeing it now, faster and faster, can hardly see a day pass by, that another Act of Underhandedness splashes the headlines, with ribbons and bows and sprinkles.)
Hoax after Hoax and People still falling for "something for nothing and safety schemes".


Glory to God,
Taken