and the only true worship in spirit and truth is the holy propitiatory sacrifice of the mass
The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ
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and the only true worship in spirit and truth is the holy propitiatory sacrifice of the mass
The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ
Rev 18:2, And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3, For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4, And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5, For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6, Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7, How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8, Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:3, For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4, And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5, For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6, Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7, How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8, Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Ferris Bueller
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I don't care how many pages of bloviation you post about how the exact same Greek word means we worship Mary in Luke 1:28 but we do not worship other believers in Ephesians 1:6. I've been a deep reader of scripture for many, many years and at no time in my studies have I encountered anything that would lead a reader to conclude that we are worship Mary. But there is scripture that says we should not. You're actually the one in denial. I'm repulsed by the Catholic cult. Literally repulsed. It was invented by people who do not have the Spirit of God, and is led by the same.
And just how, pray tell, did you become a member?
By having your name written in the registry of the Catholic Church?
Or, by believing in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross?
If the latter, why do you not afford the same membership in the church to certain Protestants who believe in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross?
If you do afford them the same membership, then why even defend Catholicism?
Since Catholicism is not the way to salvation; Jesus is.
You would do well to know nothing among us except Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).
That means saying nothing of "Mary's role in salvation" or other such (erroneous) Catholic doctrines.
Taken
Well-Known Member
1 Thes 5:
[18] In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed)
yes both his death and resurrection
Conform to Christ and him crucified
But live in the power of his resurrection
but you do not offer his sacrifice
BreadOfLife
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EVERY one of those intercessory prayers and Feast Days points to CHRIST.
Every message - such as Fatima - points to CHRIST.
And the reason that you don't believe YOUR parents were conceived without sin - it's because they weren't.
YOUR parents - as wonderful as they may be - are not Kecharitomene. ONLY Mary is.
Finally - praying to Mary or ANY other saint to pray FOR you is exactly like praying to somebody on earth to pray for you.
To "Pray", simply means to ASK. "Worship" is a SECONDARY definition. YOU pray to people every day:
Definition of the word “PRAY”:
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving
Acts 27:34 - KJV
"Wherefore I PRAY you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you".
Was Mary's mother Kecharitomene?
If Mary needs to be Kecharitomene in order for Jesus to be without sin, then Mary's mother needs to be Kecharitomene in order for Mary to be without sin, and her mother, and her mother, all the way back to Adam and Eve.
Since we find in holy scripture that when Adam and Eve partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sin was passed down to the entire human race, this is simply not biblically feasible.
If Mary needs to be Kecharitomene in order for Jesus to be without sin, then Mary's mother needs to be Kecharitomene in order for Mary to be without sin, and her mother, and her mother, all the way back to Adam and Eve.
Since we find in holy scripture that when Adam and Eve partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, sin was passed down to the entire human race, this is simply not biblically feasible.
Then I would ask people on earth to pray for me rather than risk the possibility that I might be committing the sin of necromancy in doing that with saints who have already passed to the "other side".
BreadOfLife
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Uhhhh - YOU may be a "deep reader" - but you're a DISHONEST one.
I never said that Luke 1:28 says we're supposed to "worsip" Mary. In fact - I've posted SEVERAL times now that the Church has ALWAYS taught that we are ONLY wo worship GOD. I also posted the Catechism link for this Catholic teaching THREE TIMES.
So - enough with the falsehoods huh?
Soooo - how many does that make now that I've exposed on this thread who have had to resort to LYING instead of simply debating?
You guys are too predictable . . .
Here's a couple of verses for you:
Exod. 20:16 . . .
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
Rev. 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
BreadOfLife
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This is a silly question.
Mary wasn't sinless by her OWN power or by that of her mother. It is by the power of Almighty GOD (Luke 1:47).
WHY do you have so little faith in HIM??
As to your last faithless remark - " . . .with God ALL things are possible" (Matt. 19:26).
It probably amounts to the fact that you have called everyone who has opposed you in this thread a liar.
All glory is to Christ
HOLY Church, speaking of the most Blessed Virgin, says that she went up from the desert of this world flowing with delights, leaning upon her Beloved. In fact, all the praises bestowed upon
the Saints, and upon Mary in particular, terminate in Christ our Lord ; because all these praises should be directed to the glory of her Divine Son, Who led her by His grace to the most exalted degree of merit and happiness. It is related in Scripture that the Queen of Saba, taking a multitude of gifts to Jerusalem, offered them all to Solomon. It is thus that all the saints act and the Mother of God especially. She is ever attentive to recognise that her virtues, her perfections, her merits, and her happiness proceed from the mercy of her Divine Son, Who is alone their source, their origin, and perfection : Soli Deo honor et gloria. All honour and glory to God alone; all should return to Him, because from Him alone is every perfect gift.
My point is that Mary doesn't need to be sinless in order for Jesus to be sinless.
So why persist in the doctrine that Mary was sinless?
BreadOfLife
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Then you've just illustrated how Scripturally-ignorant you are.
"Necromancy" is not "contact" with the dead. It's about seeking oracles from the dead (Isa. 8:19, Lev. 19:31).
It is trying to glean information FROM them - NOT about asking those in Christ to PRAY FOR you.
And YOU say MY fruit is rotten . . .
BreadOfLife
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She probably doesn't - but that's the way GOD chose to do it.
Besides, in order for her to fulfil OT type and prophecy - she DID have to be sinless.
Consider the following type and fulfillment regarding Mary:
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) who carried the Word of God.
OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)
OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the Word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)
OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)
OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)
OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).
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