Who founded your church?

[BreadOfLife]

Indeed he did. Just like the Jesuits who are seeking to destroy Protestantism.

True. I believe scripture BoL. It's Catholics who prefer tradition over scripture remember? So while you may accept that Christ's church is the pillar and foundation of truth, like I said to Mary, that is wholly conditional that the church is still connected to the source of that truth. Israel had fallen into apostasy and murdered Christ. They were no longer the pillar and foundation of truth, that baton passed into another that would show forth the fruits.
The church in the dark ages fell into apostasy and murdered Christ in the person of His followers. She was no longer the pillar and foundation of truth, but is fallen, fallen, that great city, because she made all Nations to drink the wine of the wrath off her fornication. The baton of truth has passed on to others to bring forth the fruits thereof.

And for YOUR version of Scripture to be ytrue - Jesus Christ would have to be a liar when He guaranteed that His Church would NOT fall into apostasy and succumb to darkness (Matt. 18:16).

As for Tradition - you are lying when you say that Catholics "prefer" it over Scripture.
The Bible itself puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture (2 Thess. 2:15).

Sorry - but I'll take God's Word over YOURS - any day.

 

[theefaith]

Protestantism was birthed from the corruption of the Catholic church, a reaction to the Idolatry and system of indulgences etc. Have you ever read the writing of Luther?
The_Ninety-Five_Theses.pdf (reverendluther.org)

No and I don’t care to read the works of condemned excommunicated heretics

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

not heretics

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes there's one sin that can't be forgiven, permanent rejection of the Spirit. I don't think any verse was written in a vacuum. I see Catholics taking verses out of context constantly.

As for 1 John 5 the message couldn't be clearer:
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Nothing about sin defined in the catogries Catholics define it, but the categories are believers and non believers.

Once again - your problem is that you comnpletely ignore ALL of the other verses in Scripture that show that even the staunchest believers can fall away by their own doing and be LOST (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Anyway - NONE of what you just posted refutes the degrees of sin (mortal/venial).

 

[theefaith]

Indulgences are biblical

Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

the infinite merits of Christ

 

[theefaith]

Once again - your problem is that you comnpletely ignore ALL of the other verses in Scripture that show that even the staunchest believers can fall away by their own doing and be LOST (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Anyway - NONE of what you just posted refutes the degrees of sin (mortal/venial).

Don’t confront a fundamentalist with scripture they are spiritually blind!
Don’t cast thy pearls etc.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wasn't it you that was complaining about using Grammarly? "ake, Perversionas, Confision"... alas but I digress....

Nope. I fully understand that people can make typos when responding to multiple posts.
If that's ALL you have - then your case is weaker than I thought . . .

To those who are living in delusion and self deception the Truth is "wacky". For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

It is utter man-made wackiness to teach - as YOU have done - that Christ's Church isn't the fullness of Christ or that it is merely in the PROCESS of becoming the fullness of Christ.

As I educated you earlier - Paul states explicitly that it IS the fullness of Him and that the Churchg is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15). This is because God Himself gave supreme earthly Authority to His Church (Matt. 16:180-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23) - not to YOU . . .

 

[David H.]

mall believers have the role of teaching the nations, baptizing the disciples, jurisdictional authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, power to bind and loose, govern the church with discipline and administer the promises (sacraments) of the Father?????

Elders do. Read again 1 Peter 5:1-7. We are all called to become elders by learning to digest the meat of the word (Hebrews 5:12-14)

As New Born babes, a believer needs the milk of the Word, 1 Peter 2:2, They are then built up as an holy priesthood as they mature and grow in grace, 1 Peter 2:5. We are all a royal priesthood 1 Peter 2:9-10. We all have the keys to the Kingdom, and all believers grow into elders and teachers by the leading of the Holy Ghost. He sanctifies us and makes us Holy by His work in our lives. This is such a simple concept, one based on the Word of God, and that we are all one in Christ Jesus. John 17:20-21.

The Problem is that many believers like to remain suckling on the milk (1 Corinthians 3:1-5, Hebrews 5:12-14), and those with Power like to lord over the flock for their own gain Jude 1:11, 1 Peter 5:3, Matthew 20:25-28.

Until you see this problem in your churches hierarchy your church will continue to fall into the harlotry it is known for.

 

[David H.]

No and I don’t care to read the works of condemned excommunicated heretics

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

not heretics

That is to your detriment then, ignorance is bliss. He was trying to reform the church, not to break from it, the result was he was excommunicated by those corrupt leaders in the hierarchy of the church that declared him a heretic, thus the hypocrisy continued and thrived in the RCC.

 

[theefaith]

Elders do. Read again 1 Peter 5:1-7. We are all called to become elders by learning to digest the meat of the word (Hebrews 5:12-14)

As New Born babes, a believer needs the milk of the Word, 1 Peter 2:2, They are then built up as an holy priesthood as they mature and grow in grace, 1 Peter 2:5. We are all a royal priesthood 1 Peter 2:9-10. We all have the keys to the Kingdom, and all believers grow into elders and teachers by the leading of the Holy Ghost. He sanctifies us and makes us Holy by His work in our lives. This is such a simple concept, one based on the Word of God, and that we are all one in Christ Jesus. John 17:20-21.

The Problem is that many believers like to remain suckling on the milk (1 Corinthians 3:1-5, Hebrews 5:12-14), and those with Power like to lord over the flock for their own gain Jude 1:11, 1 Peter 5:3, Matthew 20:25-28.

Until you see this problem in your churches hierarchy your church will continue to fall into the harlotry it is known for.

elders are priests

 

[David H.]

Nope. I fully understand that people can make typos when responding to multiple posts.
If that's ALL you have - then your case is weaker than I thought . . .

Yup, It was you, see comment #668, just pointing out your own hypocrisy.

It is utter man-made wackiness to teach - as YOU have done - that Christ's Church isn't the fullness of Christ or that it is merely in the PROCESS of becoming the fullness of Christ.

As I educated you earlier - Paul states explicitly that it IS the fullness of Him and that the Churchg is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15). This is because God Himself gave supreme earthly Authority to His Church (Matt. 16:180-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23) - not to YOU . . .

It is obvious that you do not understand the Words of Christ regarding the Spirit of Truth. John 16:13-15, He continues to reveal these things to the church as time goes by, John 21:25. To say the whole truth is contained in the world in one church is just a fallacy that limits God to the box of Human understanding. Philippians 1:9-11

Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: The former[fn] preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. (Philippians 1:15-18, NKJV)

Did You catch that? You see, so long as Christ is being preached, then So be it, But leadership done out of selfish ambition is what leads to envy and strife, not the effort to reform that Nicolaitan Spirit in the leadership.

 

[theefaith]

That is to your detriment then, ignorance is bliss. He was trying to reform the church, not to break from it, the result was he was excommunicated by those corrupt leaders in the hierarchy of the church that declared him a heretic, thus the hypocrisy continued and thrived in the RCC.

on what jurisdictional authority does he dare to reform the spotless bride of Christ??? The church is founded by a God in Christ not heretics Matt 16:18 eph 2:20
It’s already a perfect society as God created it
And he rejected Christ and his church to start new one on five Solas (doctrine of demons) not the one true faith revealed by God which is without change or reformation!

where does the Bible authorize a reformation???

 

[David H.]

elders are priests

Is that a question? The answer is yes if it is a question. What defines an elder? Maturity in Christ Jesus. The ability to digest the meat of the Word, Ones who are consumed with Christ and the cross and not worried about man worship.

 

[David H.]

on what jurisdictional authority does he dare to reform the spotless bride of Christ??? The church is founded by a God in Christ not heretics Matt 16:18 eph 2:20
It’s already a perfect society as God created it
And he rejected Christ and his church to start new one on five Solas (doctrine of demons) not the one true faith revealed by God which is without change or reformation!

where does the Bible authorize a reformation???

Jude 1:3-4 is one example of many in the New testament where leadership was corrupted, as is 1 Corinthians 5, when reform was called for. To think that Satan is not trying to infiltrate the leadership of the church is to be Naive of the seductions and temptations of the devil. All you have to do is look at the fruit of your church's leadership to see this. Some in the Catholic church do see this, and call the current pope the anti-pope.

 

[theefaith]

Is that a question? The answer is yes if it is a question. What defines an elder? Maturity in Christ Jesus. The ability to digest the meat of the Word, Ones who are consumed with Christ and the cross and not worried about man worship.

presbyter equals priest

 

[Renniks]

Sweet......Which One is it?

The Body of believers. It's not a denomination. Yes, the church building I go to has a denomination, but all believers are welcome there. The church isn't a building or a certain sect within Christianity.

 

[Renniks]

Hi Renniks,

Can you better explain the part in blue?

The reason I am asking you to explain it is because there are some Protestants that agree with Catholics on many verses. There are also verses that the Protestants disagree with other Protestants and Catholics which in effect gives us 3 interpretations of the same verse.

Can you explain to me how it is that you KNOW when someone is taking a verse out of context?

Curious Mary

It's simple. Does the meaning being drawn from the verse actually work with the context of the verse, or is someone extrapolating? For example, the verse that says there is a sin unto death, when taken in the context the verse is used in, merit creating a whole doctrine about venial sins and mortal sins?

 

[Renniks]

no it does not
Faith and baptism or the sacraments which are the promises of a better covenant

those verses refer to redemption not salvation

1 cor 13 if I have all faith and no charity it avails nothing

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

how is that possible???

This is a perfect example of taking verse out of context, something I see Catholics on here doing constantly. You are almost as bad as the health and wealth crowd, in that regard, but not quite. Phil 1:29 is about someone suffering for Christ, yes. Is it about me or you? What have we suffered? Maybe someone sneered at us when we prayed in a restaurant? Look at the context and who it's being written to instead of applying it to everyone.

1 Cor 13 has diddly to do with salvation.

Romans 13:11 is Paul saying that the end times are here. It's not an explanation of how or when one is saved.

All this is simply reading comprehension. The only thing I can figure is that you are never taught to study the Word, but only accept that it says what your church claims it does.

 

[Renniks]

Once again - your problem is that you comnpletely ignore ALL of the other verses in Scripture that show that even the staunchest believers can fall away by their own doing and be LOST (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Anyway - NONE of what you just posted refutes the degrees of sin (mortal/venial).

I never said that one can not fall away and become an unbeliever. I said that the only sin that is damnable is unbelief.
Refute what? You have to prove something for there to be anything to refute. Instead, you all build a non-biblical doctrine on pieces of verses.

 

[theefaith]

The Body of believers. It's not a denomination. Yes, the church building I go to has a denomination, but all believers are welcome there. The church isn't a building or a certain sect within Christianity.

it is the body of Christ united to each bishop united to the successor of Peter united to christ

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments are the oath or promise of God ez 36:25-27