Those who deny Eternal Security

[Michiah-Imla]

is Jesus God ? yes or no

The Word was God (John 1:1).

The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).

The implication is that this is in reference to Jesus Christ.

I cannot dispute this scripture and what it implies.

Other scripture supports this as well:

God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).

And yet it is also true that Jesus the Lord is sitting at the right of God (Mark 16:19).

I’m not going to judge others on the doctrine of wether or not Jesus is God because scripture does not command me to do so.

The only ones to judge regarding the person of Christ, according to the Bible, are those who deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3).

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:3)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Michiah-Imla,

In John 8:24, Jesus Himself judged those who deny the doctrine of His Deity.

To repeat His judgment, therefore, is really not to judge but to proclaim the truth of His word to people as to what is His judgment.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Hi @Michiah-Imla,

In John 8:24, Jesus Himself judged those who deny the doctrine of His Deity.

To repeat His judgment, therefore, is really not to judge but to proclaim the truth of His word to people as to what is His judgment.

He was not referring to the doctrine of his deity in this passage.

He was referring to his Messiahship.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Friends fall out and go their separate ways.
.

Yep.....and a “ Good Shepherd” brings them back to their senses eventually...

 

[farouk]

Yep.....and a “ Good Shepherd” brings them back to their senses eventually...

@Blood Bought 1953

"Perverse and foolish oft I strayed,
Yet in His love He sought me,
And on His shoulder gently laid,
And home rejoicing brought me."

 

[farouk]

The need for “ Terror” vanishes for those that obey God and follow his Marching Orders . What might those be? Read Hebrews 3 and 4.......REST in the Gospel.....That us the ULTIMATE Goal of Christianity....why fear God when the only thing those that are “ Obedient to the Gospel “ are going to Hear is “ Well Done, good and faithful servant !”
You guys filled with fear have good reason to “ BE” fearful.....if you don’t put every single ounce of your Faith in the Finished Work Of The Cross Plus NOTHING , according to God in Hebrews , you are Guilty Of “ Disobedience” and “ UNBELIEF” —— you had BETTER be scared! Jesus called His Followers, “ Friends”....... friends are not afraid of other friends....

@Blood Bought 1953 The Old Testament saints mentioned in Hebrews 11 indeed endured - at times the most severe suffering - and so with their example in mind the writer exhorts his readers to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2).

 

[justbyfaith]

He was not referring to the doctrine of his deity in this passage.

He was referring to his Messiahship.

He was referring back to Exodus 3:14, saying that if you do not believe that He is the great I AM, you will die in your sins.

And even if you include the he that is in italics, so that it is rendered, if you do not believe that I am HE, you will die in your sins, this is defined in John 8:27 that the He that He was speaking of is the Father.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." (John 15:14)

Do you have a mind to do whatsoever he commands you?

Love your enemies.

Turn the other cheek.

Surrender your belongings to robbers.

Give hoping to receive no payback.

Do good to those who hate you.

Bless them that curse you.

If you have an attitude to do these things, your reward will indeed be great in heaven.

Otherwise you are not Jesus’ friend and will have no part in the new heavens and new earth. Any teaching saying that you do not have to do any of these things and yet still be a friend of the Lord is false.

Jesus preached nothing about “ attitude” to do these things.....stop trying to give Him a “ break” ....Jesus said to “ DO” them..... You don't do these things, and you KNOW it ...Hypocrite ! ......like a Modern- Day Pharisee , you take impossible demands that YOU don’t obey and try to burden others with them....
Let’s cut away all the they clutter here......If you are going to go down the “Performance” Road to try to get God to Justify and declare you “ fit for Heaven” the Standard is PERFECTION ! That same Jesus that said “ give all you have to the poor” ( Done that lately, hypocrite? ) is the One that said you must be “ Perfect.....even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect”..... How’s THAT working for you?
Here’s the Deal—- Jesus KNEW nobody could keep the Ten Commandments .....there were Fools and Hypocrites in His audience that thought that they “ COULD”....” Look at us” they thought, “ WE have-never committed Adultery or Murdered Anybody ....we keep the Law.....we DESERVE Heaven!”
Jesus was attempting to take the air out of their False “ Self- Righteous Balloons “......Refraining from Adultery or any other sin was a great thing but if you ever even “ looked” at a woman with an impure thought you were as guilty in the eyes of God as the guy who actually cheated on his wife....If you hate somebody without cause, you are equal to a Murderer.....
Now, put on your thinking cap. Anybody with a Brain and an ounce of self-insight should be able to see that we ain’t gonna make it to Heaven by “ being good.” And if you have fooled yourself into thinking that you “ Are” Good......You just might be, according as to how the World measures these things .But it’s all a waste of time. You gotta be “ PERFECT “ ....24/7....once again,how’s that working for you?
The Scary Truth—- the BAD NEWS— is like this—- God has got us ALL trapped like the rats that we are. The Standard for Admission to Heaven is Perfection and we can’t reach it and God Knows that to be true. It’s that “ Mean Old Man in the Sky” thingy , isnt it ? That is how most the World sees God. Sad .
Now myself, I found a “ Way Out” Of this Terrible Mess .When The famous old time Comedian W.C. Fields was caught reading the Bible once, he was asked what on “ earth” was a drunkard , Sinful man like himself Doing by reading the Word Of God? His reply ? “ Looking for Loopholes!” Lol....very funny!
The sad Truth is that there actually “ IS” a “ Loop-Hole” in the Bible ! Fields missed it. God Himself came up with this “Way Out!” Isn’t that “ Good News?” Of course it is....that’s why God’s Plan , devised even before the world was formed is called “ the Gospel” .....it literally means “ good news”
It works like this—— You can never be “Perfect” ( the requirement for Salvation) , But God will CONSIDER you as “ Perfect” if you simply Believe Paul’s Gospel ( revealed to him by Jesus personally) It is a Promise Of God Found In 1Cor15:1-4.....Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave and you will be saved.
Faith is what Saves a person.....Faith is taking God at His Word —- Believing a Promise of God is how one does that....Well, God gave you His Promise about the way to get Saved —- no “ turning of the cheek”....no “ giving away everything you have to the poor” either. Those are good things to know , because you haven’t done either one and chances are you ain’t “ gonna” do either.They are beside the point anyway for your Salvation.......Moot Points until AFTER you get Saved.....let’s not “put the cart before the horse”...... Salvation FIRST.....Sanctification next.....
After you Believe and REST in this Good News From God, He will put His Spirit in you and start His Transforming work on the “ Inside Of the Cup” —- you will “ Find Yourself” performing The Commands Of Jesus ( NOT Moses) . There are only TWO, btw.....anybody that tells you different simply does not know the Bible . The TWO NEW Commands? #1 Believe. #2 Love. 1John 3:23.......God Bless......

 

[justbyfaith]

If you are going to go down the “Performance” Road to try to get God to Justify and declare you “ fit for Heaven” the Standard is PERFECTION !

You think that the standard is unattainable? Think again...

Now, put on your thinking cap. Anybody with a Brain and an ounce of self-insight should be able to see that we ain’t gonna make it to Heaven by “ being good.” And if you have fooled yourself into thinking that you “ Are” Good......You just might be, according as to how the World measures these things .But it’s all a waste of time. You gotta be “ PERFECT “ ....24/7....once again,how’s that working for you?

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

It works like this—— You can never be “Perfect” ( the requirement for Salvation) , But God will CONSIDER you as “ Perfect” if you simply Believe Paul’s Gospel

See the scriptures above; which speak of a practical perfection in the Holy Ghost.

.... Salvation FIRST.....Sanctification next.....

Indeed. Sanctification is salvation...from the power of sin.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Good teaching, and something for the OSAS people to consider.
.

False teaching....I considered it....laughed at it ...forgot about it...

If “ Future Sins” are not part of “ The Gospel Package”..... Throw it away....we are ALL damned ....you don’t understand Sin....you are a MUCH WORSE Sinner than you think you are...

 

[justbyfaith]

Hypocrite !

You have three fingers pointing back at you.

Jesus preached nothing about “ attitude” to do these things.....stop trying to give Him a “ break” ....Jesus said to “ DO” them..... You don't do these things, and you KNOW it ...Hypocrite ! ......like a Modern- Day Pharisee , you take impossible demands that YOU don’t obey and try to burden others with them....

The demands that he has spoken of are not impossible to keep in the power of the Holy Ghost (see Romans 5:5, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Here’s the Deal—- Jesus KNEW nobody could keep the Ten Commandments .....there were Fools and Hypocrites in His audience that thought that they “ COULD”....” Look at us” they thought, “ WE have-never committed Adultery or Murdered Anybody ....we keep the Law.....we DESERVE Heaven!”

If we bear the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23).

We have a righteousness of the Lord apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed...

And if you have fooled yourself into thinking that you “ Are” Good......You just might be, according as to how the World measures these things .But it’s all a waste of time.

No doubt, the law condemns every one who has not been redeemed (justified) through the blood of Christ (Galatians 6:13 shows that no one keeps the law). However, when we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). How does this work? We are no longer bound by the letter but have become obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

When we bear the fruit of the Spirit (among which is the fruit of goodness, Galatians 5:22-23), there is no law that will condemn our behaviour. Bearing the fruit of goodness is an evidence that we have been bought through Christ's precious blood. Because we have been justified by the blood of Christ, we have also been born again of the Holy Spirit. And this means that we bear the fruit of the Spirit (which includes goodness).

Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Ghost and faith (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

That kind of flies in the face of "there is no one good but God", doesn't it? But Jesus was speaking before the Cross; the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. He would later come into people's lives and impart goodness as a fruit.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You think that the standard is unattainable? Think again...



Prove yourself, you False Teacher and Hypocrite! I want your car . Send me the Keys . Do it the Way Jesus said to do it....” If a man asks for your coat, give him your sandals also! “ Going by Jesus Rule and Your Rule , that would mean giving me both of your cars if you have two of them .......when you deliver the cars to my home , I will run a little test on you. Expect to be slapped across the face. very hard . I wanna see you offer me the other one. I will report the results back here for an on-looking world to see......
Its high-time you “ Blind Guides” either “ Put Up or Shut Up” ...... do the things you tell everybody else that we must do.For once.
It’s turning cold here in Ohio.....you don’t “ have” to do this.....just to show your great love for me, your enemy, check that anti- freeze, please.......thanking you in advance......BB...

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:



See the scriptures above; which speak of a practical perfection in the Holy Ghost.



Indeed. Sanctification is salvation...from the power of sin.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You think that the standard is unattainable? Think again...



Prove yourself, you False Teacher and Hypocrite! I want your car . Send me the Keys . Do it the Way Jesus said to do it....” If a man asks for your coat, give him your sandals also! “ Going by Jesus Rule and Your Rule , that would mean giving me both of your cars if you have two of them .......when you deliver the cars to my home , I will run a little test on you. Expect to be slapped across the face. very hard . I wanna see you offer me the other one. I will report the results back here for an on-looking world to see......
Its high-time you “ Blind Guides” either “ Put Up or Shut Up” ...... do the things you tell everybody else that we must do.For once.
It’s turning cold here in Ohio.....you don’t “ have” to do this.....just to show your great love for me, your enemy, check that anti- freeze, please.......thanking you in advance......BB...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Hypocrite !
You have three fingers pointing back at you.


What a cute little retort.....tell me how a man who freely and continually admits to being a Sinner who admits that he does not and indeed CAN NOT obey the 613 commandments of God, and much less, the Impossible Rules Of Sermon on the Mount ——- tell me how that man is a “ Hypocrite?” You Prove you don’t even know what the word means ....your ignorance extends to all the parts of the Human Condition , doesn’t it? Yet.....you continue to post.....sad.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Ghost and faith (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

Notice “ why” he was considered a “ good man” .......he had FAITH ! That FAITH made him a candidate to receive the Holy Ghost....If one has that “ Spirit” , God Works “HIS” Good THROUGH you..... That's the Good that Barnabus had... I got that too....how about you ?

 

[justbyfaith]

Prove yourself, you False Teacher and Hypocrite! I want your car .

Sorry, I don't own a car.

(And even if I did, why should I give you my car when you did not make good on your offer to give $1,000 to the one who would prove you wrong on a certain doctrine when I proved you wrong on it? Are you holding me to a higher standard than you hold yourself? This is the very thing that you accused @Michiah-Imla of doing.)

But, since you have continually slapped me across the face spiritually on these boards (and I will admit that I have not always immediately responded in the spirit that the Sermon on the Mount requires me to do), I will do my best to turn the other cheek concerning those slaps across the face.

Slap away, you slap-happy clown!

Here is a perfect opportunity for you to do so. I am offering my cheek to you in that I have said something that you can really use against me!

 

[justbyfaith]

You think that the standard is unattainable? Think again...



Prove yourself, you False Teacher and Hypocrite! I want your car . Send me the Keys . Do it the Way Jesus said to do it....” If a man asks for your coat, give him your sandals also! “ Going by Jesus Rule and Your Rule , that would mean giving me both of your cars if you have two of them .......when you deliver the cars to my home , I will run a little test on you. Expect to be slapped across the face. very hard . I wanna see you offer me the other one. I will report the results back here for an on-looking world to see......
Its high-time you “ Blind Guides” either “ Put Up or Shut Up” ...... do the things you tell everybody else that we must do.For once.
It’s turning cold here in Ohio.....you don’t “ have” to do this.....just to show your great love for me, your enemy, check that anti- freeze, please.......thanking you in advance......BB...

Give me your address, and I will send you my shirt.

And if you really want me to come to your house so that you can slap me on both cheeks, see if I don't show up just to prove a point; provided that you are not too far away and I can make it to your house.

 

[justbyfaith]

Once you have slapped me, slap me again! I am a glutton for punishment.

Just keep telling everyone that I am a false teacher and see if I don't respond with kindness.

 

[justbyfaith]

Barnabas was a good man, full of the Holy Ghost and faith (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

Notice “ why” he was considered a “ good man” .......he had FAITH ! That FAITH made him a candidate to receive the Holy Ghost....If one has that “ Spirit” , God Works “HIS” Good THROUGH you..... That's the Good that Barnabus had... I got that too....how about you ?

Yep.

 

[justbyfaith]

Prove yourself, you False Teacher and Hypocrite!

May the Lord abundantly bless you and receive you as a son.