Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

[101G]

My atheist friend is a moron in fact and he would know such that he was if he ever became born again. in fact all people are morons until they are truly boron again, did you know that great 101G.

"in fact all people are morons until they are truly boron again" do you truly want to put that to the test?........

did you know that great 101G
You say.... YIKES!

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Reggie Belafonte said:
"in fact all people are morons until they are truly boron again"
are you going to take your own statement to the test?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald and to others, understand what "one", or H259 אֶחָד 'echad means here at Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
then you will not foolishly thinkt that it's two separate and distinct person in John 20:17 but know that this is the Diversity of his own Spirit asending. the term God here identifies the G243 allos equality of God in Resurrected flesh.

Now you are simply being foolish! If God was One person, He would not have to spell it out with the word Echad! He would have said Yachid instead.

My sources are Kiel and Delitzch Hebrew Commentary, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, native speaker and bachelors in Hebrew Grammar, and about 1/2 dozen Hebrew grammar aids found online!

ERROR, not two separate and distinct persons, no, the G243 all of one person... YIKES!

It is so sad that you think that you need to correct god and His revelation to mankind! Everyone who has not been inculcated with this oneness theory of yours reads all the passages as the Father is separate form the son who is separate from the Spirit. That is how all them words Work! God knew that and that is why He chose to inspire it that way!

But we are beating a dead horse- have the last post and we should give this discussion a merciful burial.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I believe that it is some sort of logical fallacy to label your opponent's doctrine with some kind of label; as though that makes his doctrine untrue.

I can do the same: your doctrine appears to me to be Tritheistic rather than Trinitarian.

What you call tri-modalism is very likely the true version and form of the Trinity as it exists in the Godhead. It denies Tritheism and is not Oneness (modallstic) either.

Well Tritheism, trimodalism and trinitarianism all have specific definitions to gauge things by and you simp;ly are just another variation of tri-modalism. You can do what you want with that but your beliefs fit the definition with some minor modifications.

Mine does not fit tri-theism.

It is not the true version. If it was it would be far more popular than it is!

But as it is only held in oneness pentecostal churches and the World Moission Church of God, and they have many other doctrinal issues. It is related to Sabellianism and patripassianism.

The language of Scripture denies this concept which is why the church-even the heretical church from the 4th-15th centuries had it right!

I do not deny that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct Persons within the Trinity.

But you deny the Trinity?

 

[justbyfaith]

It is so sad that you think that you need to correct God <fify>

 

[justbyfaith]

Well Tritheism, trimodalism and trinitarianism all have specific definitions to gauge things by and you simply are just another variation of tri-modalism.

I believe in the Trinity; and you believe in a version of Tritheism.

Mine does not fit tri-theism.

It is not the true version.

To say that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct makes each one a God in and of themselves; rather than being members of the Triune Godhead. And, that is three Gods...again, Tritheism.

And you are correct in saying that your pov is not the true version of the Trinity.

Mine is.

It is related to Sabellianism and patripassianism.

Patripassianism does appear to be substantiated by certain scriptures (such as Romans 4:24-25 and Hebrews 9:16-22).

But you deny the Trinity?

Nope.

 

[101G]

Now you are simply being foolish! If God was One person, He would not have to spell it out with the word Echad! He would have said Yachid instead.

that right there just show us how ignorant you're of the Word of God. in the echad itself shows God as the plurality of himself as the equal G243 allos of himself in flesh. you're blind to that fact and cannot understand. let me prove it out to you, your lack of knowledge of the Word.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

did you understand that? if not ONE here is in reference to "LORD". and that ONE is,
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

do you know what an ordinal first is as "LORD" ......... (smile). I guess not, nor do you understand that the "LORD" the ordinal first is the G243 allos of himself in flesh also, do you? that why you make such uninformed statement.

It is so sad that you think that you need to correct god and His revelation to mankind! Everyone who has not been inculcated with this oneness theory of yours reads all the passages as the Father is separate form the son who is separate from the Spirit. That is how all them words Work! God knew that and that is why He chose to inspire it that way!

again you error, I'm "diversified" oneness, you fail to understand, so yes, it's a dead horse, for you have no understanding. as above I give scripture to what I say, but where is your scripture to support your position? you have none.

so see ya.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Reggie Belafonte said:
"in fact all people are morons until they are truly boron again"
are you going to take your own statement to the test?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

A lost person is a moron 101 for they know not the Lord Jesus.

 

[101G]

A lost person is a moron 101 for they know not the Lord Jesus.

we disagree with that statement, when you was lost was you a moron? see there is a different between being stupid and ignorant. and there are many now who say they know the Lord, Just like Job, who had a lot more to learn, so are these moron? no, we all are Learning God, no one have any advantage over another. we all are "IGNORANT" of God.

so as for moron concering the Lord we all are in the same BOAT. supportive scripture, Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:"Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

so according to YOU, all of us in the "Lord", the educated moron is in the same boat as the uneducated moron.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I believe in the Trinity; and you believe in a version of Tritheism.

I admire how you never tire of being wrong, about me.

To say that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct makes each one a God in and of themselves; rather than being members of the Triune Godhead. And, that is three Gods...again, Tritheism.

And you are correct in saying that your pov is not the true version of the Trinity.

Mine is.

Well if you believe if "distinct" is the same as three persons who are the one God- then yes you are correct! Otherwise you are simply bringing out an old lie with a new dress on it!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

do you know what an ordinal first is as "LORD" ......... (smile). I guess not, nor do you understand that the "LORD" the ordinal first is the G243 allos of himself in flesh also, do you? that why you make such uninformed statement.

Why? Because I speak the truth as the Hebrews teach it! When the Hebrews meant only one thing they would have used yachid which means only 1 all the time!

But when echad is used- it means one comprised of many!

But this is called grammar and vocabulary and you have shown a keen disinterest in it!

When echad is used it would be like this in todays English. The Boston REd sox has 26 members who form one team! (One team of multiple parts)
Yachid- would be- The REd sox are one team in teh American League (only one cardinal vs. ordinal)

No charge for the basic grammar lesson for you!

 

[justbyfaith]

Well if you believe if "distinct" is the same as three persons who are the one God- then yes you are correct! Otherwise you are simply bringing out an old lie with a new dress on it!

They are three Person who are each individually the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6) and therefore they are also the same Person.

See posts #1-#6 of the following thread for my Bible substantiation on this.

True Trinity.

 

[101G]

But when echad is used- it means one comprised of many!

But this is called grammar and vocabulary and you have shown a keen disinterest in it!

first thanks for the reply, second, that is called IGNORANCE.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

ECHAD: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

now Ronald, is not God the First and the Last? yes or No.

now tell us is the First and the Last ONE PERSON or TWO or more separate and distinct person(s). listen,

#1. Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

#2. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

#3. Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

well Ronald, is this one Person, or two or More person separate and distinct as the "First and the Last?

NOW THIS,

#4. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

#5. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

#6. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

well Ronald, is this one Person, or two or More person separate and distinct as the "First and the Last? Remember God is saying this.

so is this a Echad of UNITY, or an Echad of "Diversity", the First and the Last as one PERSON.......

YES, an Echad of ONE PERSON, diversifed, just what the Greek term is describe in "ANOTHER" of one's ownself as G243 ALLOS...... YIKES!

supportive scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another (G243), Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" and who is that (G243 allos), "another?" Comforter? lets see, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

How plain can one get? :) the Lord Jesus just told us that he is the "ANOTHER" Comforter. because he's the comforter now in flesh and blood. and he's coming in Spirit to dwell in us. my God how hard is it?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

They are three Person who are each individually the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6) and therefore they are also the same Person.

How can there be three person who are each individually the same Spirit, and yet as you said again, "they are also the same Person".

if they are the same one PERSON, how can they be three individually each? that's contradictory.

lets get it right, there is only one PERSON in the Godhead, and that's the ONE who is called the Holy Spirit/Ghost, who name is "JESUS".

now JESUS the Holy Spirit is diversified/Shared inflesh as the G243 allos of his own-self. this is the ECHAD of one. in the diversified state, which was to come, he the Holy Spirit, JESUS, as LORD/ordinal First, is the title holder, "Father". and that which was to come is the Lord/ordinal Last, is title holder, "Son"... shared in flesh.

there is no three, only one person, diversified, or as said, the G243 allos of himself in flesh. that's plain as day.

so no, there is no three of anything concering the Godhead.

see, people have been decieved, read Deuteronomy 6:4 again, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" did one see it? if not the verse said, "our God is ONE LORD" the verse didn't read, "our God is ONE God", no, one LORD.

God is ONE, but diversified. hence his plurality of "ANOTHER" just as G243 Allos describe. listen, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words "ANOTHER", G243, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort.

what's a numerical difference? Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last..... BINGO, .... YIKES!.

there it is in a nutshell. The LORD "JESUS", (the Holy Spirit", equally shared in flesh as ONE PERSON. scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

the FORM of God is Spirit. and the Lord JESU is the Equal "Form" in flesh, the ordinal Last.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

if they are the same one PERSON, how can they be three individually each? that's contradictory.

It would seem so, wouldn't it?

However, the Lord has said,

Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The Father who dwells in eternity is the same Spirit who took on a human nature and the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The Father is distinct in personality from the Son, in that the Son is human and therefore understands humanity; while the Father is outside of time and has never been human.

The Holy Ghost, as a Spirit, is distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life and understands humanity. He is the same Spirit (even the Father, John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:4), released back to Himself (Luke 23:46) to exist side-by-side with Himself in eternity (John 1:1) outside of time.

For the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

And therefore they are also, the same Person; while the distinction between them is enough to make them different Persons. Because their personalities are different.

Thus, I think that it is comprehensible as a doctrine in spite of the passage out of Isaiah 55 that I quoted above.

 

[101G]

Isa 55:8, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

that's true, and is not his thoughts are expressed in the scriptures? and the scriptures clearly express his Godhead. so are the scriptures that I expressed are they not his thoughts?

listen to what you said,

The Holy Ghost, as a Spirit, is distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life and understands humanity. He is the same Spirit (even the Father, John 4:23-24, Ephesians 4:4), released back to Himself (Luke 23:46) to exist side-by-side with Himself in eternity (John 1:1) outside of time.

For the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

so you have a Spirit within a Spirit that is "distinct". if so then they are not the same. do you see what you're saying?

listen understand what the ordinal First and ordinal Last means and all those person will go away.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

@justbyfaith let me show you what I'm saying by ordinal vs cardinal in numbers. lets use your verse, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"

ONE Spirit, here One is the Greek word, G1520, heis. the first cardinal numeral, masculine (feminine and neuter nominative forms are mia and hen, respectively), is used to signify (1) (a) one in contrast to many. see it now, listen, Ordinal numbers tell the position of an object rather than their quantity. now lets see your person/persons... Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

ok, how many Spirit?

A. the Spirit of God

B. the Spirit of Christ

is this one Spirit or two "DISTINCT" Spirits? ..... before you answer, read Ephesians 4:4 again and understand what "ONE" there means?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

so you have a Spirit within a Spirit that is "distinct". if so then they are not the same.

They are the same and yet not the same.

The Holy Ghost is the "future" of the Father's experience....He is the same Person.

However, God cannot change...and yet the Holy Ghost's experience is distinctly different from that of the Father...which makes Him a distinct Person...because His personality is different. He also exists side-by-side with the Father in eternity (John 1:1, John 15:26)) so He is distinct that way, also.

ok, how many Spirit?

A. the Spirit of God

B. the Spirit of Christ

is this one Spirit or two "DISTINCT" Spirits?

Both (as I explained above).

 

[101G]

They are the same and yet not the same.

that makes no sense whatsoever. because, Ephesians 4:4 don't agree with you, for the term ONE Spirit there siginfy, (1) (a) one in contrast to many.
it's the cardinal numeral, 1 which singify quantity. uh O........ see your problem now?

in Ephesians 4:4 "ONE" Spirit is the cardinal numeral 1. not TWO, as you say in "BOTH". understand, in a carnal number of 1/ONE there is no "both" to distinguish anyone or anything. see your error now?

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

we disagree with that statement, when you was lost was you a moron? see there is a different between being stupid and ignorant. and there are many now who say they know the Lord, Just like Job, who had a lot more to learn, so are these moron? no, we all are Learning God, no one have any advantage over another. we all are "IGNORANT" of God.

so as for moron concering the Lord we all are in the same BOAT. supportive scripture, Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:"Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

so according to YOU, all of us in the "Lord", the educated moron is in the same boat as the uneducated moron.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Isaiah is OT you moron. their is a difference between the OT and the NT you know.

You need the Holy Spirit 101g the spiritual saboteur indeed. you are ignorant of God. you have to be truly born again deer 101g to understand God, not to mention no one can come to the Father but for ? do you know.
To know is learned.