The golden calf and the Trinity

[2 Chr. 34:19]

If he reads the post he won't think that. I see nothing wrong with the title.


When did Jesus say this?


That is the lie Satan used to tempt Eve.

‘If’ a non-believer comes on this site...

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

When did Jesus say this?

Good point

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

I've always felt there is a profound reason why the Golden Calf was made exclusively out of earrings.

Judges 8:24
It was the custom for ishmaelites to wear earrings.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

If people wonder about America, here is the answer

CLICKY

Scary-if this is true ...also, have you seen gog and Magog statues in London museum.very pagan

 

[Cooper]

Scary-if this is true ...also, have you seen gog and Magog statues in London museum.very pagan

I haven't seen them thanks, but sad to say it is always the worst of the worst that gets the attention.
.

 

[Stan B]

As Jesus declared, there are millions of Gods.

When did Jesus say this?

I assume we are gods because God made us in His own image.

That is the lie Satan used to tempt Eve.

@CharismaticLady

When did Jesus say that there were millions of Gods?? When the Jews were seeking to stone Jesus for making himself out to be God.

"The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are Gods’? If he called them Gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)" John 10:33

i.e.

"I have said, Ye are Gods [Elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalm 82:6

Which would be consistent with Genesis 1:27, i.e. "each after its own kind":

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

 

[CadyandZoe]

The use of the plural to refer to the one God is simply recognition of the fact that God is a trinity, consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

As I recall, although the word has a plural spelling, the author didn't intend to convey plurality. The word actually comes from another language, which is why it is plural.

This answers one question but brings up another. Isn’t the Trinity a New Testament teaching? How could those living at least 1200 years before Christ know about it?

The gospels only record one time in which Jesus mentioned the Trinity.

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18-20 ESV

You would think that he would have spent time teaching his disciples about this important doctrine but if so there is no record of it. Perhaps the reason for this is that they already knew this. There is evidence for this in the visit by the Wise Men after Jesus was born.

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
Matthew 2:1,2 ESV

The fact that they came to worship Jesus shows that they understood that he was God. You might say that because they didn’t have the Old Testament they were mistaken in this belief. The response by King Herod and the Jewish scholars shows they were not.

When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

“‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared.And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.”
Matthew 2:3-8 ESV

Before they sinned Adam and Eve certainly learned what God was like and must have passed that knowledge on to their children. In the Old Testament there is no explicit explanation of the Trinity because it was general knowledge among the readers so there was no need to explain it.

As people scattered throughout the world after the flood they gradually forgot the truth that had been revealed to them, and yet some traces of that truth remained. Many religions believe in a triad of gods that are their leading deities. This belief is what remains of their ancestral belief in the Trinity. Wikipedia has an article that lists some of these triads.

Triad (religious) - Wikipedia

(This isn’t the only truth that has been preserved. Many cultures have legends of a worldwide flood.)

But what about the fact that Jews today reject any idea that God is a trinity or that the Messiah could be divine? That is explained by one incident in their history.

Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”
John 19:15 ESV

They rejected their king and God judged them.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Romans 11:25 ESV

Because they are now blind to the truth we cannot use current Jewish beliefs as a guide to what Jews believed in the time of Jesus. However this blindness is temporary.

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
Romans 11:26,27 ESV

When Jesus returns their blindness will be removed and they will finally acknowledge him as their Messiah and king.[/QUOTE]

 

[CadyandZoe]

When a woman says, "he has lost his marbles" does she suggest he had more than one? No. It's a figure of speech, a metaphor. She isn't talking about marbles at all. When Aaron says, "there are your gods" does he suggest there is more than one idol? No. It's a figure of speech, Synecdoche. The golden calf represents all the idols of Egypt.

 

[101G]

Genesis 1 is not a plurality of three, nor is Genesis 1:26. the Lord Jesus made that clear and closed the door on that ERROR. while talking to Pharisees concerning divorcement, our Lord said this. the Matthew 19:2 "And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there."
Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"
Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
HOLD IT, every christian say Jesus cannot lie right ... right. here our Lord Jesus the Christ God in flesh said "he" made them, not any "US" or "OUR".
Now once again, can JESUS lie? no, so it was no "US" and "OUR" who made man.

christian say I believe Jesus, ok, why not here in Genesis 1:26? he said "he", meaning only ONE PERSON made man male and female. what's the problem in believing Jesus, GOD in flesh now? see many been taught false doctrine all their life, and when the truth comes, it foreign to them as a 7 dollar bill. they believe man more than God. Lord help them.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
is name here plural? NO. only one name, and not name(s) indicating more than one. what the Lord Jesus is doing is putting an end to any misconception as to who and what God is. and trinity is he not.

if God was a trinity of three separate and distinct persons he would have said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the names of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" the word "name" is not plural, indicating only one person. "Father", "Son", and "Holy Ghost", are only titles and the appellatation of only one PERSON.

people read but fail to understand.

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

@CharismaticLady

When did Jesus say that there were millions of Gods?? When the Jews were seeking to stone Jesus for making himself out to be God.

"The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are Gods’? If he called them Gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)" John 10:33

i.e.

"I have said, Ye are Gods [Elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalm 82:6

Which would be consistent with Genesis 1:27, i.e. "each after its own kind":

"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

.
And he (Moses) shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God [el-o-heem'] (Exodus 4:16 ASV)

And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God [el-o-heem'] to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Exodus 7:1 ASV)

Moses was Elohim (God) to Pharaoh and the people, but he is not the Almighty. He was more like President Trump with his army, having the power of life and death. And he is mortal.

We need to look at the context. Moses was to be 'as' a God. Neither is he the Creator. (Elohim is a homonym a word with two or more meanings, they cause an awful lot of trouble.)


.

 

[Cooper]

As I recall, although the word has a plural spelling, the author didn't intend to convey plurality. The word actually comes from another language, which is why it is plural.

This answers one question but brings up another. Isn’t the Trinity a New Testament teaching? How could those living at least 1200 years before Christ know about it?

The gospels only record one time in which Jesus mentioned the Trinity.

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18-20 ESV

You would think that he would have spent time teaching his disciples about this important doctrine but if so there is no record of it. Perhaps the reason for this is that they already knew this. There is evidence for this in the visit by the Wise Men after Jesus was born.

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
Matthew 2:1,2 ESV

The fact that they came to worship Jesus shows that they understood that he was God. You might say that because they didn’t have the Old Testament they were mistaken in this belief. The response by King Herod and the Jewish scholars shows they were not.

When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

“‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared.And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.”
Matthew 2:3-8 ESV

Before they sinned Adam and Eve certainly learned what God was like and must have passed that knowledge on to their children. In the Old Testament there is no explicit explanation of the Trinity because it was general knowledge among the readers so there was no need to explain it.

As people scattered throughout the world after the flood they gradually forgot the truth that had been revealed to them, and yet some traces of that truth remained. Many religions believe in a triad of gods that are their leading deities. This belief is what remains of their ancestral belief in the Trinity. Wikipedia has an article that lists some of these triads.

Triad (religious) - Wikipedia

(This isn’t the only truth that has been preserved. Many cultures have legends of a worldwide flood.)

But what about the fact that Jews today reject any idea that God is a trinity or that the Messiah could be divine? That is explained by one incident in their history.

Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”
John 19:15 ESV

They rejected their king and God judged them.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Romans 11:25 ESV

Because they are now blind to the truth we cannot use current Jewish beliefs as a guide to what Jews believed in the time of Jesus. However this blindness is temporary.

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
Romans 11:26,27 ESV

When Jesus returns their blindness will be removed and they will finally acknowledge him as their Messiah and king.

[/QUOTE]

Jesus is the the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David. Revelation 5:5
He is the promised seed of Adam who would crush Satan’s head (Gen. 3:15).
He is the descendent of Abraham through whom every nation on earth would be blessed (Gen. 12:3).
He is the son of Judah, who reigns eternally as king, whose garments are washed in the blood of grapes, and whose hand is on the neck of his enemies (Gen. 49:8-12).
He is the Passover Lamb who was slain to protect God’s people from the Angel of Death (Exod. 12).
He is the greater son of Israel who came out of Egypt, and He is the great redeemer who brings his people out of a bondage and slavery that is far worse than anything the Israelites experienced there (Exod. 12-14).
He is the true bread from heaven that actually nourishes and feeds his people (Exod. 16).
He is the Rock from whom the only life-giving water flows (Exod. 17).
He is the fulfillment of the Law, perfectly obeying not only the 10 Commandments, but all 613 from the day of his birth (Exod. 20).
He is the One through whom we enter into our lasting Sabbath rest, not just for one day out of seven, but for every day from now through all eternity (Exod. 23:10-12).
He is our great High Priest who offers his very body as an atonement for the sins of his people (Exod. 28-29).
He is the radiance of God, the exact representation of his being, and is the very presence and glory of God among his people, even more than the ark or the pillars of cloud and fire (Exod. 40:34-38).
He is the once for all sacrifice that God offered on the altar on the Day of Atonement on Calvary, and at the same time he is the scape goat that was sent out of God’s presence into the wilderness on account of the sin that he bore (Lev. 16).
He is like the bronze serpent that was lifted up and when people look to him in faith, they find forgiveness and healing (Num. 21).
He is the star that shall come out of Jacob, and the scepter that comes out of Israel (Num. 24:17).
He is a city of refuge for guilty sinners to run into and find shelter (Num. 34).
He gives us every blessing for his obedience to God’s perfect commands, and he paid the price for the curse we deserved for our every disobedience (Deut. 28).
He leads his redeemed people into the Promised Land where they will dwell with him forever (Joshua 3).
He is our conquering warrior, victorious over the powers of sin and death (Joshua 5).
He is the righteous judge and savior who never fails to defend and protect his people when they repent and turn back to him (Judges 2).
He is the offspring of David whose kingdom has been established forever (2 Sam. 7).
He is the very temple of God, which though destroyed was raised again in 3 days (1 Kings 8; 2 Chron. 3).
He is our chief prophet and teacher who restores true religion by calling us away from our idols to return to the One True God (1 Kings 18).
He is leading a remnant out of Babylon back to the Holy Land (Ezra 7).
He is Job’s hope and ours because we know that our Redeemer lives and at the last he will stand upon the earth (Job 19:25).
He is the eternally begotten Son of the Lord Most High, whom kings fear in his anger, and who blesses those who take refuge in him (Psalm 2).
He was for a time forsaken by God on the cross, so that those who are found in him might never be rejected (Psalm 22). And yet, his body did not see corruption, because, as David sang, God did not abandon him to Sheol, but raised him physically with an incorruptible body (Psalm 16).
He is the shepherd of his sheep, who restores the soul of his fold and leads us in paths of righteousness (Psalm 23).
He purges us with a cleanser much stronger than anything the hyssop branch can spatter on us—he washes us clean in his very blood so that we might be whiter than snow (Psalm 51).
At his command the angels would bear him up lest his foot strike a stone, yet he did not call on their aid, but welcomed the cup the Lord had for him to drink (Psalm 91).
He is the greater Son of David who will sit at Yahweh’s right hand until all his enemies are as footstools, and is the priest forever in the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110).
He is the Word of God incarnate, and the only lamp for our path (Psalm 119).
He is the very wisdom of God made manifest in the flesh (Proverbs).
He is the only purpose in life that matters (Ecclesiastes).
Jesus is the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley, and he is the husband who brings his beloved to the banqueting table and who satisfies her fully in his love (Song of Songs 2).
He is the sign to Ahaz, one named Immanuel and born to a virgin (Isaiah 7).
He is the great light shining to a people walking in darkness, coming out of Galilee of the nations; He is the child born who is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end, and on the throne of David and over his kingdom, he will establish and uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore (Isaiah 9).
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org...sed-him-to-be/

Jesus is all the way through the Old Testament, we just assume we are reading about God, and we are right to assume that, because that is who Jesus is.

 

[101G]

.
And he (Moses) shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God [el-o-heem'] (Exodus 4:16 ASV)

And Jehovah said unto Moses, See, I have made thee as God [el-o-heem'] to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Exodus 7:1 ASV)

Moses was Elohim (God) to Pharaoh and the people, but he is not the Almighty. He was more like President Trump with his army, having the power of life and death.

We need to look at the context. Moses was to be 'as' a God.


.

Correct we need to look at the context, for we know that a god of the People/Nations is an Idol., meaning NOTHING 1 Chronicles 16:26, and Psalms 96:5, and 1 Corinthians 8:4. we know an idol is nothing in the world. so what is Psalms 82:6 is saying?. when God's appointment and commission people for judgship and magistrates, god's, small case "g" in gods, (for they had the power of life and death in their hands, just as Moses had with the people in Egypot), Exodus 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." God invested them, judges and magistrates with such an office, by which they came to have these title. but Psalms 82:6-8 are clear when we read all those scriptures.
Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." (these Judges and magistrates, as "CHILDREN of God" and not of the people/nations... WORLD, worldy people, not of God, was to make righteous judgments. not to take bribs, and money under the table so to speak, but champion the cause of the righteous, protect those who had no voice, like widows and orphans, ect...). Micah the prophet said it best by God, 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" just read God by the prophet Micah in what he is saying. but the next verse in Psalms tells the tail.

Psalms 82:7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." God have no respect for person. if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. all governments are of GOD, which is the representative "POWER" of God on earth, (see Romans chapter 13). and God is found to be the ONLY RIGHTEOUS JUDGE, verse 8 below shows this.

Psalms 82:8 "Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."

PICJAG.

 

[Stan B]

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
is name here plural? NO. only one name, and not name(s) indicating more than one. what the Lord Jesus is doing is putting an end to any misconception as to who and what God is. and trinity is he not.

if God was a trinity of three separate and distinct persons he would have said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the names of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" the word "name" is not plural, indicating only one person. "Father", "Son", and "Holy Ghost", are only titles and the appellatation of only one PERSON.

These entities are indeed separate but joined together in unity.

The Holy Spirit defines a being of multiple entities. We have multiple Holy Spirits, like the seven Spirits which were sent to the seven churches Rev 1:4; the "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." Rev 4:5; and also the seven spirits which emanate from the throne and the Lamb which had been slain, who are sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6: And those are only the ones who have been revealed to us. Certainly there is much more we don't know about.

It doesn't make sense to limit an infinite God, to a limited man-made construct in a 3-in-1 box!

 

[janc]

The use of the plural to refer to the one God is simply recognition of the fact that God is a trinity, consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

ELOHIM

Moses was also called Elohim and he is only one person. Elohim can also mean "Gods" but it does not always have to be.

Well, if you know that God said "let US make man in OUR image," it is, at least, plural.

He spoke to the angels, who were created before man in the image of God.

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful Counselor (Spirit), Mighty God (all three),
Everlasting Father (Father), Prince of Peace (Son).

God is only one person.

 

[Cooper]

These entities are indeed separate but joined together in unity.

The Holy Spirit defines a being of multiple entities. We have multiple Holy Spirits, like the seven Spirits which were sent to the seven churches Rev 1:4; the "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." Rev 4:5; and also the seven spirits which emanate from the throne and the Lamb which had been slain, who are sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6: And those are only the ones who have been revealed to us. Certainly there is much more we don't know about.

It doesn't make sense to limit an infinite God, to a limited man-made construct in a 3-in-1 box!

The seven Spirits - before his throne - The ancient Jews, who represented the throne of God as the throne of an eastern monarch, supposed that there were seven ministering angels before this throne, as there were seven ministers attendant on the throne of a Persian monarch. We have an ample proof of this, Tobit 12:15: I am Raphael, one of the Seven Holy Angels which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One. And in Jonathan ben Uzziel’s Targum, on Gen_11:7 : God said to the Seven Angels which stand before him, Come now, etc.

In Pirkey Eliezer, iv. and vii: “The angels which were first created minister before him without the veil.” Sometimes they represent them as seven cohorts or troops of angels, under whom are thirty inferior orders.

That seven Angels are here meant, and not the Holy Spirit, is most evident from the place, the number, and the tradition. Those who imagine the Holy Ghost to be intended suppose the number seven is used to denote his manifold gifts and graces. That these seven spirits are angels, see Rev_3:1; Rev_4:5; and particularly Rev_5:6, where they are called the seven spirits of God Sent Forth into All the Earth.
(Adam Clarke)

 

[Stan B]

He spoke to the angels, who were created before man in the image of God.

Never heard that one before. Is that something you read in the Bible??

 

[janc]

Thus speaks God, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb: It is I, God, who work all things, who stretched out the heavens, I alone stretched out the earth by myself.

Nobody was with God before creation, he was alone and is only one person, the only one who was with him was his Spirit and his Spirit is his personality and not another person.

 

[janc]

Never heard that one before. Is that something you read in the Bible??

Angels can beget children with humans, which means that angels and humans have the same nature, therefore angels were also created in the image of God, for only beings of the same nature can produce offspring.

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

Moses was also called Elohim and he is only one person. Elohim can also mean "Gods" but it does not always have to be.


He spoke to the angels, who were created before man in the image of God.

God is only one person.

When was moses called Elohim in The Bible?