Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man seen in it is Jesus Christ

[Bobby Jo]

@farouk

What good is a relic? ...

What good is History? -- Ignore Deut. 18:22. We don't need History to define whether GOD spoke. Faith stands all by itself, -- who need works.

Jmes 2:17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead​

Bobby Jo

 

[brian100]

A real Christian would not put themselves on the other side of one of his miracles. The disbelieving side. Doing so can wreck their faith in him.

 

[brian100]

Heres how my hope, faith and love process worked for me.

I hoped The Shroud was real.
I had faith it was.. blind faith.
I loved Jesus so much I went out to prove its real.

What reward do disbelievers have?

All I had to do was decode it to identify who the man was. Everyone was 100% sure nobody could tell.

 

[brian100]

Yeah.. Go look.. even a Luke person visited me 17 years earlier. You said I was special. I said I was lucky.

Really you people are the lucky ones. But all I have seen so far is mainly disbelief in the Shroud.

Would anyone have seen it if I didn't bring it? I have asked God was it me or you.. I think it was my will. The love I had .. I never gave up on God showing me. He never gave up on me doing it. Or me showing you.

Jealousy is a big one too.

Should I feel stupid for God showing me? I do it with confidence! Now what do they say about Jesus? Huh, what you guys got now?

 

[brian100]

I'll show the post card again I suppose. Read the first sentence.

 

[brian100]

He telling you the future message b/c I never understood why anyone would say that to me in a postcard.. I don't write stuff.. I'm illiterate.

And back in 2003 I never wrote anything. I was a heavy labor slave over my kids moms lie. He knows inside my heart that beautiful woman comes from God not the devil. He wrote that to me to say God knows what's inside my heart. That I know beauty comes from God.

That first sentence was a message to you guys not for me.

 

[GodsGrace]

The reconstruction convinced me, and they said it was something Michelangelo could easily have done. I used to believe it but after that I don't. So I can understand why people who haven't seen the reconstruction still believe in its authenticity. True or false it should be at the centre of one's faith.

Pearl
From what I know, it's impossible to reconstruct this.
Could you link the video you saw?

How could the age of Michelangelo have done this? It's not even paint on the surface.
And it's only on the very top layer that is so fine/small, I can't even remember the mm's.
It's impossible to do this. And the technology!

I'll look for a YouTube video tomorrow and link it.

Not that I think it's necessary to think it's real...it's just interesting.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'll show the post card again I suppose. Read the first sentence.

I'd have to agree that Italian women are beautiful.

ciao!

 

[brian100]

Did you notice Luke wrote like me in broken sentences. He told me its ok to suck at writing.

That's how I write!

How did he know how I wrote things? I write one sentence. I write one sentence.I write one sentence.I write one sentence.I write one sentence.

Only God knows I wrote like that.

 

[GodsGrace]

I aspire to such wisdom! :) ... Although Deut. 18:22 suggests that evidence [not "proof"] is appropriate!

With Very Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

Agreed.
I'd say that we have the evidence --- no matter about the Shroud.
But it's still very interesting...

 

[GodsGrace]

What good is a relic? Additional converts seem far, far more significant than a piece of clothe. Catholics and their relics - mystifying!

You think that if somehow it was proved conclusively and with no doubt
that the image was that of Jesus,,,it would cause many to become believers?

I don't agree.

And a lot of relics ended up in the CC because that is the only church that was around at the time.

No mystery there.

 

[brian100]

I think it only takes one believer.. to get God to let other people to believe. We'll all soon see who starts believing soon.

What really convinced me was the Fabric of time Video.. with the 3d.. and the Event Horizon Tomb thing where Jesus had to levitate to make his image get on that cloth. The levitating is beyond even our times capability.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think it only takes one believer.. to get God to let other people to believe. We'll all soon see who starts believing soon.

So is what you're doing here witnessing?
If so,,,it's not how we witness.
That's done by speaking about how God has affected OUR life.
Whether the Shroud is real or not is relevant.

 

[brian100]

No.. one believer could get God to allow others to see it too. But you guys have free will and I have not seen it yet. Will wait and see if Rita comes back believing.

 

[Bobby Jo]

brian100 said: ↑
Jesus allowed me to decode it secrets.
​

Wow. You are so special. Maybe you should be seated at the right hand of God. ..

I think he ALREADY IS! Whadya think, should we WORSHIP him?

Bobby Jo

 

[Helen]

No problem....

But WHY do you think it's a fake?
Every reason I've thought of runs into problems.

Hi Fran

My reason is that the face is on the sheet as one picture ...the bible clearly says that the the napkin that covered the faces of the dead , was separate , and Jesus’ found folded neatly in the tomb after his reserection.
So why is the “shroud” all one picture.? I don’t find that in my bible.
If it was two bits - the head covering and the body covering , I would be more convinced .

Not that it matters either way.. salvation is not based on us believing or not believing in the shroud -
But, it seems that this Brian’s belief IS!!
And he keeps on about the two hearts of Mary on the sheet which proves it is true!

But, no sweat , I am more concerned about Brian’s mental state in being so obsessed with it all...”IT” in itself seem to have become his ‘religion ‘. The Father and Son don’t seem to figure much in any of his threads or in his abundant posts!!

xxxx

 

[brian100]

Barrie said its an authentic Jewish burial.

Face cloth to sop up blood..linen strips to tie body.. but if the body was tied how did an Event horizon happen in his tomb? Fabric of time explains it. His body had to levitate for image to be perfect. Jesus has perfect buns on the shroud. No bun indentations from gravity. No image distortions from the linen strips.

The only unanswered question about the Shroud was who was he. I found the answer to that.

35 min Isabel Piszek

I don't even know why I try to help you guys.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...the bible clearly says ...

Actually, the TRANSLATORS clearly said. -- Often times "translators" include their rendering of what Scripture should say according to their expectations. Take the Dan. 9 Seven and Sixty-Two. In MOST versions the numbers are summed as though they were to represent the value of Sixty-Nine, for which Newton correctly observed does "VIOLENCE" to Scripture. -- The RSV and a few other versions CORRECTLY depict the Seven as one duration with an "anointed one"; and the Sixty-Two as a SECOND duration with a SECOND "anointed one".

So don't be too confused as to the "folded", except that the Shroud and the Sudarium weren't bunched up and thrown in a corner, but were left lying where Jesus had lain. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Tong2020]

John 19:38 After this, Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly, for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took the body of Jesus. 39 And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. 40 Then they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury. 41 Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. 42 So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews’ Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby.

Traces and evidence of a mixture of myrrh and aloes must be found on the cloths. Traces and evidence of the binding must be found on the cloths.

Luke 24:12 But Peter arose and ran to the tomb; and stooping down, he saw the linen cloths lying by themselves; and he departed, marveling to himself at what had happened.

John 20:5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.

Scriptures speaks of "cloths", plural, meaning more than one piece. Evidently, one would be that was used to wrap around Jesus' head and the other (may be more than 1) would be that used to wrap around His body.

By that itself, with at least two pieces of cloth used, that which was used to wrap the body could not have the marks of Jesus' face, but could only be on the cloth used to wrap His head. Another point would be that, the shroud of Turin shows a marking of what appears to be that of a man wrapped in a single piece of cloth the whole body including the head. And that shown to be of a single piece of cloth so perfectly made to wrap the whole body which when folded crosswise exactly at mid-point, the markings makes a perfect match of the frontal and back of the man. However, there seems to be something wrong with the markings, in that, there are no signs of wrinkle breaks or discontinuity on the markings that should have been produced by the binding, nor there are signs of pressure points on the markings on the cloth.

Tong
R0694

 

[brian100]

There is the two image Event Horizon! To make that it was said he hovered in the tomb between the two sheets pulled tight. Simply amazing! Nobody can make that divide up into anterior and posterior images.