Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man seen in it is Jesus Christ
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This is controversial !!
We're just talking.
One could believe it's real or not believe it.
Nothing to do with one's salvation.
And I doubt anyone is basing their belief on the Shroud.
You know what they say:
To a believe no proof is necessary,
To a non-believer no proof is enough.
What do you mean the CATHOLIC JESUS?
How many were there?
Pearl,,,that's what I thought.
It could be presented in such a way as to present all the negative facts and make it seem unreal.
Or it could be presented with the positive facts and make it seem authentic.
I'll tell you why I believe it's real.
The cloth that was taken to do date testing was from a corner that had been replaced after the burning in the middle ages, about 1300AD, if I remember correctly.
There is pollen that is found only in Israel.
The material was used by wealthy persons living in the time of Jesus...as we know Joseph of Arimathea was a rich person.
The blood stains are human.
It is a negative...no such idea was present at the time of Jesus....not even in the middle ages when some say it was fabricated.
Every mark corresponds to a crucified man.
Laser study show it in 3D -- impossible to create even today.
In the 4th and 5th century there was talk in Greece about the face of Jesus being imprinted
on a cloth. This MIGHT be referring to another relic with only the face of Jesus and which the
church has never claimed to be authentic.
The CC does not accept miracles easily....it is thorough in its investigations.
NO ONE understands how this could possibly have been made and cannot be duplicated.
The image is not made of any known material. Personally, I believe it's an image made from the resurrection.
There's no reason to say this is an authentic relic since it does not create belief in an unbeliever.
Hard to believe this is up to page 19 !
If I can, I'll read through it later on.
No problem....
But WHY do you think it's a fake?
Every reason I've thought of runs into problems.
Too much material would be needed....
And there's so much other information to consider.
I thought I would look up what it says about the cloth that Jesus was covered in during his burial, I could find the most information about the cloth found in the tomb after Jesus had resurrected recorded in the book of John.
John 20:5-7 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.
John 20:5-7 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.
In fact I read the book and believed it. And then I watched a couple of documentaries about it which were inconclusive and then a third documentary was very convincing that it was a forgery and did a reconstruction of it could be done. I was disappointed as I wanted it to be real.
The reconstruction convinced me, and they said it was something Michelangelo could easily have done. I used to believe it but after that I don't. So I can understand why people who haven't seen the reconstruction still believe in its authenticity. True or false it should be at the centre of one's faith.
I've looked at it for 20+ years before I said its not fake. The negative along with the 3d encoding + the event horizon (front and back images) happening in the tomb prove no man could have done this. Its a one of a kind and its perfect.. Only God makes perfect.
Plus it gives the full account of a crucified Jesus.
The only 1 other issue was who the man is and I proved its Jesus, and nobody else.
Plus it gives the full account of a crucified Jesus.
The only 1 other issue was who the man is and I proved its Jesus, and nobody else.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
I aspire to such wisdom! :) ... Although Deut. 18:22 suggests that evidence [not "proof"] is appropriate!
With Very Best Regards,
Bobby Jo
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Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
What interesting is that in the analysis of the Shroud's authenticity: https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/mouraviev.pdf, (Ref. Page 5, Item 4 "Optics"); the author insists on Solar Radiation, but neglects the already established accounts of Moses' and Jesus' transfigurations, which would account for the pre-supposed and also discounted "Solar" challenges.
So where Christians should KNOW what caused the linen "burns", scientists have no explanations.
Bobby Jo
Just the Event horizon like front and back images proves God made this. The Black hole is an Event horizon seen in the last video that I've posted. It divided his body in half. And for it to happen he would be hovering in the tomb.. No crushed tushy from the stone slab is seen on any of the images.
No man posses that knowledge.
That final evidence convinced me its God.
No medieval man forger can make a body levitate, and of course God knew to do that. I have 3d images of God's tushy. Put your 3d glasses on.
No man posses that knowledge.
That final evidence convinced me its God.
No medieval man forger can make a body levitate, and of course God knew to do that. I have 3d images of God's tushy. Put your 3d glasses on.
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@Rita There's so much Scripture to be sufficient to explain our saving faith, isn't there? :)
Christianity started with the Shroud. They did a great job protecting it.
Now 2000 years later Jesus allowed me to decode it secrets.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
If you can't convince a Non-Believer to become a Believer with all the EVIDENCE of Scripture and History, what makes you think that another carbon dating of the Shroud will convince them of anything?
You don't believe the Shroud EVIDENCE right before your eyes; and I'll bet you won't believe that the 19th Book of the Bible (the Book of Psalms) is prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, Chapter for year, where Book 19, Chapter 44 = 1944 Holocaust; Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948 International Recognition of the State of Israel; etc., etc.
Maybe you should concentrate on understanding Scripture & History so you can witness the things you know, rather than the things you don't know.
Bobby Jo
The main argument for atheism is Jesus never existed and man wrote the bible to control people. I can show you its not true. I begged Jesus to let me show them up. . . I told Jesus I would broadcast to everyone. Jesus showed me!
The reason you guys don't believe might be the faith lacking.
The reason you guys don't believe might be the faith lacking.
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