Fear God or Presume acceptance

[stunnedbygrace]

I would think we all would resemble this

It is called letting your light shine through.. The light being Christ

I dont resemble it. I want the power of God to be seen in me, because I want God to be glorified and praised. But I do not resemble the apostles in that.
It is my hope though. For now, I'm learning the obedience of complete trust. I know God in me, the hope of glory. And I know small glimpses of what I have been apprehended for. But God is so good that He will withhold what we do not yet have the strength or maturity or humility and fear to bear yet. Because it is better to be counted among the righteous than to fail to properly handle the holiness of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

They were not allowed to enter because of unbelief

From the time they left and the time they died. They complained continually. At the river, which Moses through God split. At the rock, Which God provided water At the other rock, where their unbelief made Moses so mad he disobeyed and because of it was not allowed to enter. In the wilderness when they complained about manna. At the mountain, where they had Arron build a golden calf. Remember arrons rod that Budded?

a history of unbelief, Yes the did the motions (walked through the water drank the water, ate the manna) but it is no different than someone going to church and singing hymes and doing other things, yet in reality they are unbelievers.

Walking under towering walls of water is not "doing the motions." It would take great trust to do it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

…. and which of us gets to judge if the other people are "making the grade?"

We dont even get to judge if we ourselves are "making the grade," let alone if others are. We just try to help build each other up in trust. We are in it together. One body.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not necessary?

who says this?

Mark's said obedience was not necessary.

 

[marks]

Oh, I think I see what you are magnifying down on. You are saying it cannot be known that he knew God would strike ananais dead and can only be known for sure that he knew God would strike Saphira dead?

Exactly!

:)

We need to be careful with what ideas we import into the text.

 

[marks]

You dont outright say you are against obedience to God. You say that obedience is not necessary.

What I say is what the Bible says. We are justified on the basis of Jesus' obedience, not our own. That's in Romans 5. The entire chapter is extremely explanatory.

You are so focused on holding onto eternal life that you throw away what God saves us through -

More personal defense time? I don't think so. If you don't understand this doctrine you certainly don't understand about me. No need to get personal. Again. Wastes time and energy.

Hear the Word.

Romans 5:19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.

If you believe that you will be constitute righteous based on your own obedience, I would respond that such a view disagrees with this passage. And of course other passages also. This one is particularly clear, or so it seems to me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Mark's said obedience was not necessary.

This is what replaces Biblical study and discussion.

What is the purpose of this?

 

[marks]

That is one reason why you don't accept the lower sin of trespasses.

That's not why at all.

My reasoning is entirely contained in my understanding of justification, that it is a complete release from sin in all respects.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What I say is what the Bible says. We are justified on the basis of Jesus' obedience, not our own. That's in Romans 5. The entire chapter is extremely explanatory.

So God has changed? Or...Abraham was counted as righteous, not because he believed God but rather on the basis of Jesus' obedience? You yourself have said God counts men as righteous when they believe and trust God.

You do know that Roman's 5 begins like this: Therefore, being justified by faith...?

 

[marks]

So God has changed? Or...Abraham was counted as righteous, not because he believed God but rather on the basis of Jesus' obedience? You yourself have said God counts men as righteous when they believe and trust God.

You do know that Roman's 5 begins like this: Therefore, being justified by faith...?

Abraham believed God, and we believe God. And we are justified along with faithful Abraham.

Yes I'm aware of the beginning of the chapter. To capture the full thought best to back up a little into chapter 4.

You are forming a "false conflict" as if somehow our faith, or Abraham's faith somehow stands in for, or replaces Jesus' obedient act.

If Christ were not died and rose again we would still be in our sins. Our faith would be empty, meaningless. See 1 Corinthians 15 for that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God wants one thing from you and it is what He saves you by, your trust, the obedience of trust, and you have taken that one thing and obliterated it and said it just means trusting you will live forever, at which point, Gods hands are tied now and He cannot go around this loophole men have found, this deal to cheat death. But the entire gospel Jesus preached shows this is not so.

You will not find this statement in Anything I've written on this forum. It is so far away from what I teach, it really makes me wonder about what is happening here.

 

[marks]

Of course I haven't read all of this humongous thread, but it is still sad to see so many people thinking their Salvation depends upon their own performance.

And especially so knowing that is the way of the flesh.

 

[marks]

I think a LOT of modern believers have that same kind of pagan mindset as Constantine.

Think that all you want, naturally, but projecting that onto others to whom it does not apply is slanderous.
And to claim that you know "that is does in this case" is to sit in judgment over others, and that is not your place.

 

[marks]

…. and which of us gets to judge if the other people are "making the grade?"

None. Jesus alone.

 

[marks]

Amen

And that their performance could in some way be in a place where they earn the gift of life..

And in trying to win God's acceptence, or to convince Him to keeps us, that replaces, rather than enhances a true life lived in Christ.

Because Christ in me is not trying to make sure that I'm accepted by God. God accepts me because I'm His child, in Christ born from above. And now we can live! But if I'm spending my life trying to make sure I'm accepted . . .

It's kind of like George Soros spending his days scraping two rocks together hoping to get enough metal out to sell so he can pay his bills. How much money does that guy have? Yet even this example falls short!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is what replaces Biblical study and discussion.

What is the purpose of this?

The purpose was to answer EG, who asked, who here has said our obedience is not necessary?

The obedience of trust is very necessary. And not just trusting that you will live forever either.

You have plainly stated that it is Jesus obedience that makes God call a man righteous, not the mans trust.

So do we just strike "though faith" from: you are saved by Gods grace through faith?

 

[marks]

to fail to properly handle the holiness of God.

Your ideas are very odd to me.

Put on the new man, created after God, in righteousness and true holiness. You've been recreated with holiness. Now live that holiness. He has given you all you need to do that. Trust Him to make it so, and fix your mind on Jesus. This is the Christian life.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You will not find this statement in Anything I've written on this forum. It is so far away from what I teach, it really makes me wonder about what is happening here.

You did not say continued obedience of faith was not necessary?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your ideas are very odd to me.

Put on the new man, created after God, in righteousness and true holiness. You've been recreated with holiness. Now live that holiness. He has given you all you need to do that. Trust Him to make it so, and fix your mind on Jesus. This is the Christian life.

I am not holy. And since I am not walking in the Spirit, I do not have the righteousness of God. Just want it to be perfectly clear that I am not claiming to be holy, walking in the Spirit. I have hope for this but i am not there.

 

[Episkopos]

so how do you know you "made the grade"

We first receive His life and Spirit by sheer mercy. Nobody deserves mercy or grace. But then what we do with it can either be good or bad. So we will all be judged at the end for what we have done for what we have been given.

The longer we have to live out the Christian life, the more fruit will be expected.