Where in the bible does it say I need to use it

[bbyrd009]

I guess people have different nuanced understanding of what Sola scriptura means. For me, it means two things. First, it is the final authority on doctrine. Anything presented by man that contradicts scripture, should be cast aside.
That said however, we should not limit God to the scriptures in communicating with man and making Himself known. The Bible itself tells us that God can and does speak through dreams, visions, and even nature, and if those who may never have read scripture or heard the word of God preached or taught, live and love according to their conscience, having compassion on others and in their hearts leaning towards godliness, there is all eternity remaining for them to learn theology and the whys and wherefores of how they came to be in the kingdom. Yes, scripture has the final say over all ecclesiastical councils, Popes, pastors and even televangelists. But let us not limit a God who wants all men saved and who is doing all He can to bring all men to repentance... He is not a God who is deliberately making it as difficult as possible to be saved by using fine print and meticulous forms and ceremonies that one must adhere to.
There have been literally millions throughout history who have had no access to scripture. Do we condemn them to eternal damnation because they were born in the wrong place and the wrong time? Or do we believe God is just, and exercises compassion and mercy through doing good and reaching out to lost souls, using missionaries with Bibles when available, but whatever other means He has at His disposal otherwise.

word

 

[bbyrd009]

You say we can't rely on the Apostles, but what, we can rely on you? You really think you're better than any human on the planet? I'm going to tell you this though, if I can't rely on the Apostles, I'm certainly not going to rely on you. I do have a question for you though, where did you get the information that the only thing God sent was his Holy Spirit. If you say from a book other than the Bible I'm not going to rely on that book if I shouldn't be relying on the Bible. If you say God Holy Spirit told you that, prove it! However understand, If I can't rely on what the Apostles say in the Bible I'm not going to rely on what you say cause you're not better than the Apostles. So if I can't rely on what they say, I'm certainly not going to rely on what you or any other person on the planet has to say.

ah well barney you gotta admit the apostles are not portrayed as the most aware types, at least while Jesus was there, i mean theyre basically Jesus' Straight Men? Thought the kingdom was about to manifest even as they were entering Jerusalem?

 

[DNB]

yeh, imo its hard to distinguish a genuine lack of credence from a backlash to Bible-thumpers combined with a little ignorance, though.
You dont read the Bible, the Bible reads you
prolly

anyone reading literally and thus rejecting on evidential grounds i would class right in there with Believers tbh, just of a diff belief. I say this bc most "believers" cant hardly stand Scripture seems to me, least when i am Quoting It lol

That's true, some have construed Ronald's sentiments as merely a back-lash at bible-thumping fanatics, who seem to misquote Scripture more than perceive its wisdom. I don't, I think that he's arrogant and deluded, and believes that he has power, which he refers to as the Spirit, that no one else has. And therefore, prefers to reject the discipline and regiment of studying the Bible in order to exegete it correctly, by demeaning it's authority or inspiration.

Are you using 'believers' in a derogatory sense? I think that those who reject the literal dimension of Scripture, which is the majority of it, are blind to the significance (of the miracles, for example). No one believes the Bible because of Noah's ark, at least just for its supernatural aspect, but because of what it signifies. The blind bicker over whether 2 genders of each species could survive on the ark, being oblivious to the profundity behind why God just obliterated what He had just created!

 

[bbyrd009]

OK, not sure if I'm following you entirely, as to where you place Scripture as far as its precedence goes?
Like I keep saying, you would not have even known the God has offered the Holy Spirit, and this, only to believers, had the Scriptures not proclaimed it. So, between being aware of such an empowerment, and the criteria for believing, both are derived solely from the Bible. You have put the cart before the horse.
I am doing nothing more than giving credit where do, and appreciating what a legacy, with an indispensable significance, that God has left for us to attain salvation.
Anyhow, JD22, best of luck attaining wisdom and edification! Thanks for the discussion.

sola scriptura is doomed to failure imo, if Paul did indeed say All writings are useful for instruction, correction... as is quite likely. The Bible is a compendium of wisdom imported from other schools, that is almost a signature aspect of It? I gotta link somewhere, all kinda Stoic, Essene, even Epicurean refs/lifts

i suggest that wisdom is where you find it, and one dismisses Green Eggs and Ham at their peril

 

[DNB]

I guess people have different nuanced understanding of what Sola scriptura means. For me, it means two things. First, it is the final authority on doctrine. Anything presented by man that contradicts scripture, should be cast aside.
That said however, we should not limit God to the scriptures in communicating with man and making Himself known. The Bible itself tells us that God can and does speak through dreams, visions, and even nature, and if those who may never have read scripture or heard the word of God preached or taught, live and love according to their conscience, having compassion on others and in their hearts leaning towards godliness, there is all eternity remaining for them to learn theology and the whys and wherefores of how they came to be in the kingdom. Yes, scripture has the final say over all ecclesiastical councils, Popes, pastors and even televangelists. But let us not limit a God who wants all men saved and who is doing all He can to bring all men to repentance... He is not a God who is deliberately making it as difficult as possible to be saved by using fine print and meticulous forms and ceremonies that one must adhere to.
There have been literally millions throughout history who have had no access to scripture. Do we condemn them to eternal damnation because they were born in the wrong place and the wrong time? Or do we believe God is just, and exercises compassion and mercy through doing good and reaching out to lost souls, using missionaries with Bibles when available, but whatever other means He has at His disposal otherwise.

Very insightful (and Scriptural Romans 2:15), well said!

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, strangely enough i guess Law is holy though, wow
weird

 

[Brakelite]

The blind bicker over whether 2 genders of each species could survive on the ark, not that God just obliterated what He just created (very profound).

That gets even more hairy when one considers the reasons for God allowing the flood. Was God destroying the human race... Or preserving it... Through Noah?
Who knows that perhaps the human race was on the verge of destroying itself perhaps a year or even less, later? Which gives us a different nuance to our day. Perhaps if we accepted more responsibility for the evils that are pervading our planet and it's impending self destruction, we would better understand why God would need to intervene... That not all men perish.

 

[DNB]

sola scriptura is doomed to failure imo, if Paul did indeed say All writings are useful for instruction, correction... as is quite likely. The Bible is a compendium of wisdom imported from other schools, that is almost a signature aspect of It? I gotta link somewhere, all kinda Stoic, Essene, even Epicurean refs/lifts

i suggest that wisdom is where you find it, and one dismisses Green Eggs and Ham at their peril

Yes, but redemption and salvation cannot be subjective. God is not frivolous or double-minded, meaning that, all roads do not lead to Rome.
His canon is His love. No greater gift has He given us, ...unless the path to Heaven is broad?

 

[bbyrd009]

That's true, some have construed Ronald's sentiments as merely a back-lash at bible-thumping fanatics, who seem to misquote Scripture more than perceive its wisdom. I don't, I think that he's arrogant and deluded, and believes that he has power, which he refers to as the Spirit, that no one else has. And therefore, prefers to reject the discipline and regiment of studying the Bible in order to exegete it correctly, by demeaning it's authority or inspiration.

ah, so a standard believer then eh

Are you using 'believers' in a derogatory sense? I think that those who reject the literal dimension of Scripture, which is the majority, are blind to the significance (of the miracles, for example).

meh so there we differ, imo miracles are for the lost, mostly. Not to say that i havent recognized little miracles of synchronicity or whatever. So, SiT i guess, depending upon how one defines "miracles" maybe

No one believes the Bible because of Noah's ark, at least just for its supernatural aspect, but because of what it signifies. The blind bicker over whether 2 genders of each species could survive on the ark, not that God just obliterated what He just created (very profound).

ah well the Noah Cycle is a significant passage imo, that yields much more info in symbolism than when read literally imo, but for the literal one how bout that raven that didnt return, huh? :)
but shem, ham, and japheth are just too valuable as types, might even be a dna story, dunno

 

[DNB]

hmm, strangely enough i guess Law is holy though, wow
weird

Well, both work. Whether one has the written Law by choice or inheritance, or whether one adheres to it instinctively, both are abiding by holiness.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, but redemption and salvation cannot be subjective. God is not frivolous or double-minded, meaning that, all roads do not lead to Rome.
His canon is His love. No greater gift has He given us, ...unless the path to Heaven is broad?

ah well i would agree that any other wisdom shouldnt disagree with the Bible, sure.
in the original language, not english though

 

[DNB]

ah, so a standard believer then eh

meh so there we differ, imo miracles are for the lost, mostly. Not to say that i havent recognized little miracles of synchronicity or whatever. So, SiT i guess, depending upon how one defines "miracles" maybe
ah well the Noah Cycle is a significant passage imo, that yields much more info in symbolism than when read literally imo, but for the literal one how bout that raven that didnt return, huh? :)
but shem, ham, and japheth are just too valuable as types, might even be a dna story, dunno

Miracle: supernatural event that defies physics, or a secular explanation.
My point was, I believe in the historicity of Noah's ark, as incredible as it may appear, because of the profundity behind its significance. Man is detestable.

 

[DNB]

ah well i would agree that any other wisdom shouldnt disagree with the Bible, sure.
in the original language, not english though

As long as the authorial intent can be extrapolated, then English, Punjabi, Jamaican Patois, or East L.A. Ghetto will work.

 

[DNB]

That gets even more hairy when one considers the reasons for God allowing the flood. Was God destroying the human race... Or preserving it... Through Noah?
Who knows that perhaps the human race was on the verge of destroying itself perhaps a year or even less, later? Which gives us a different nuance to our day. Perhaps if we accepted more responsibility for the evils that are pervading our planet and it's impending self destruction, we would better understand why God would need to intervene... That not all men perish.

Very good point, was it destruction or preservation? ...I just meant to emphasize how some (the blind) may only see either the problems with the logistics, or that God appears conflicted. I see it as a warning to all men, i.e. we are horrible creatures/children and should know better. Which is just what your latter statement expressed.

 

[bbyrd009]

Miracle: supernatural event that defies physics, or a secular explanation.
My point was, I believe in the historicity of Noah's ark, as incredible as it may appear, because of the profundity behind its significance. Man is detestable.

yikes
yet yah so loved the world
i mean man is at least also wonderful, and even transcendent
we are, literally, gods
and the world is better right now than it ever has been, by any measure you care to name, im pretty sure

and a literal boat you think? who knows? i dont

As long as the authorial intent can be extrapolated, then English, Punjabi, Jamaican Patois, or East L.A. Ghetto will work.

the manipulations of scribes should not be ignored, imo; "Easter" is not in the Bible

our English Bibles are terribly biased, from "Lord" to "Hell" and the elimination of "have faith" for "belief," and several other common distortions, our english Bibles are heavily scribed!

 

[bbyrd009]

As long as the authorial intent can be extrapolated, then English, Punjabi, Jamaican Patois, or East L.A. Ghetto will work.

but i wouldnt ignore any wisdom from those schools either :)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

OK, not sure if I'm following you entirely, as to where you place Scripture as far as its precedence goes?
Like I keep saying, you would not have even known the God has offered the Holy Spirit, and this, only to believers, had the Scriptures not proclaimed it. So, between being aware of such an empowerment, and the criteria for believing, both are derived solely from the Bible. You have put the cart before the horse.
I am doing nothing more than giving credit where due, and appreciating what a legacy, with an indispensable significance, that God has left for us to attain salvation.
Anyhow, JD22, best of luck attaining wisdom and edification! Thanks for the discussion.

Precedence?
I'm not sure I'm understanding your question here.

God is first. He lives, He speaks. He is the power- the metaphorical "horse". He speaks through the Spirit directly to hearts. The "cart" are through written words in scriptures, prophets, experiences, etc. They follow Him and His witness. (I actually think I like that way of explaining things).

I do love the scriptures dearly. I read them regularly throughout the week. But they're not what saves me (Christ is) and I also can't ignore God's other wonders. I can't remotely accept Sola Scriptura.

 

[DNB]

yikes
yet yah so loved the world
i mean man is at least also wonderful, and even transcendent
we are, literally, gods
and the world is better right now than it ever has been, by any measure you care to name, im pretty sure

and a literal boat you think? who knows? i dont

the manipulations of scribes should not be ignored, imo; "Easter" is not in the Bible

our English Bibles are terribly biased, from "Lord" to "Hell" and the elimination of "have faith" for "belief," and several other common distortions, our english Bibles are heavily scribed!

No, the world is horrible and so is man, rather, because of man. I'm not saying that we're entirely depraved and wretched, but for what we were created for, we are entirely depraved and wretched.
Yes, a literal boat, ...how else could it float? Ok, maybe a hydrofoil?
There's no bias in the Bible. Every translation will have its shortcomings, based on the availability of manuscripts, and the translation methodology of the interpreters (functional or dynamic equivalence, paraphrase). Every Bible worth mentioning, is good, they serve different purposes, that's why it's a recommended practice to use several in one's study.

 

[DNB]

but i wouldnt ignore any wisdom from those schools either :)

Only if it aligns with the Bible.
Byrd, what is your skepticism of the Bible based on? Are you not Christian? If you are, how do you even know?

 

[DNB]

Precedence?
I'm not sure I'm understanding your question here.

God is first. He lives, He speaks. He is the power- the metaphorical "horse". He speaks through the Spirit directly to hearts. The "cart" are through written words in scriptures, prophets, experiences, etc. They follow Him and His witness. (I actually think I like that way of explaining things).

I do love the scriptures dearly. I read them regularly throughout the week. But they're not what saves me (Christ is) and I also can't ignore God's other wonders. I can't remotely accept Sola Scriptura.

Doctrinaly, the Scriptures take precedence. Now, when I say Scriptures, I mean any transmission of the doctrines & precepts that are within the Bible, through whatever medium (evangelization, radio, quotes, Christian forums, etc...). Then, once one understands the Gospel, only then can they receive the Holy Spirit, for it is only given to believers. Thus is why Apollos needed to have a more thorough understanding of the Gospel via Aquila & Priscilla, before he could receive the Spirit. Same with Paul expounding to the Ephesians of the Baptism of Christ, only then did they receive the Spirit.
The truth must come first, and this is by one hearing the Word (), and only then can one obtain the Spirit.

Romans 10:14-15
10:14. How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15. How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"