Fear God or Presume acceptance
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
God offers the same gift of salvation to all
It is a horrible deception to think you deserve Gods salvation based on what you do (works), or what you think you have not done (sin) thus you earn the GIFT God offers to all based on the work he accomplished.
Your right, God judges
For all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory
All are guilty, there is not a person who has walked this earth who has lived up to Gods standard. Not you, Not me, Not anyone.
so you either receive his gift,
or reject it
The choice is yours
Are you sinless?? How do you expect me to give you any credit for anythign you say when you will not confess if you live up to your own standard?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Is it a misunderstanding?
If what they teach is sinless (and from what I see many here see this is what they teach)
yet they will not admit if they live up to their own demand.
is it not being deceptive?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No. But if you read the law. Perfection was required Moses made the people confirm an oath they would confirm and ovbey every word. Failure to do so would result in the curse of the law Paul re-iterted this in Gal 3. When he states the law curses everyone, because whoever does not obey every word is cursed. what is the curse? Death,, IE, perfection is required.
James said if we keep the whole law. but STUMBLE in one point, We are guilty.. For the smallest of all sin, This what is required? Perfection
Also note. Adam ate of a forbidden fruit, the fall of mankind, Evil and every destructive act on this earth and to this earth is a direct consequence of that one seemingly small sin
Also. God says the penalty of sin is death. Mathematically, this means for every sin one commits, the penalty is death.. The ony way to NOT receive this death penalty is to never commit a sin, (this is perfection)
When jesus was called Good. what was his response? Why do you call me good. No one is good but God. Why? Because perfection is required.
Paul said for ALL have sinned and fall short of Gods glory? What is Gods perfect standard? yes, Perfection
if people think they can sin, and still meet Gods standard. they are mistaken.. You want to meet Gods standard. You better be perfect (from birth)
but remember, No one is good But God.
Not just TORAH -
Jesus directly told all the disciples "you must be mature (PERFECT - all you can be)" BECAUSE YOUR FATHER in heaven is PERFECT. Just as God told His People : You MUST BE HOLY (set apart) (from the world, sin, the devil, self(old man), selfishness, greed, etc ), because I AM HOLY (set apart ) ...
He never asked them if they were perfect,
God never asked Israel if they were holy.
Jesus and the Father TOLD THEM what is TRUE.
No deception from the Father nor from Jesus , ever, including in asking leading questions with any kind of wrong motive at all..
This is patently false. i.e. contrary to all God and Jesus and Scripture say.
This is what I've been thinking about this also as I read this thread, ones like it.
We are brought into life, and some people can't seem to get their eyes off of death.
We are alive in a new man, Christ. I think of it like the two trees, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life.
Adam chose the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and was cut off from the tree of life.
We've come into the Tree of Life, Christ, but there is such a strong draw to live according to knowledge of good and evil, and God's requirement that you choose the good, and reject the evil, in all holiness and righteousness.
And once someone turns from life, and begins to live according to the knowledge of good and evil, nothing good results.
I think that some just can't seem to wrap their minds around justification, and the new creation.
You don't live the life of Christ by measuring yourself to Law, or by trying to keep Law.
All this hammering on in accusations, "You don't have the experience of holiness, only empty belief", It's straining very hard to see down the wrong road. Yes, without holiness none shall see God. But who really actually believes that they can get enough holiness for themselfs??
Of course, in the first place, who here knows each other at home? What sort of person am I really? Or others? And no one can see the heart, so no one is supposed to be judging others anyway.
Personally, having read so many posts from so many of these players, I would find it difficult to believe a claim of sinlessness anyway from those who seem the stongest on that point.
So this constant refrain, if you aren't sinless, it ain't real. As if that was the criteria! As if we did that for ourselves! As if God hasn't ALREADY given us All That We Need for life and holiness.
He gave us His Son.
Maybe it's just not enough for some people to say, I didn't earn my salvation, I'm helpless, God had to do everything! After all, who like to admit to weakness? Only those who have been humble to find that's where God's strength is.
We can live according to the Tree of Life, and that is different from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
And you make another good point.
Jesus didn't die for us so that God could put further demands on us. That's what so many don't seem to understand about justification and a new creation.
Rate yourself on your behavior if you want, But God appoints our destiny according to who we are, the child of Adam, to share the death promised to him, or a child of God, to share the eternal life promised to His Son.
Law increases sin. We aren't supposed to be living by law. The just shall life by faith.
Much love!
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Of course.
The gift of God is salvation power now (grace) to walk in a way that when we are judged we will be deemed righteous. God isn't blind and grace does not make Him blind. He judges the righteous as righteous...the dishonest as dishonest...the humble as humble...etc...
But you are inventing your own religion, not found in the bible. Grace is not an eternal gift. Grace is for now to become holy. So you are trying to take advantage of God's mercy in an unbelief that says that God should accept you as you are. And you know you are being dishonest....as the bible says over and over again...we will all be judged by our works. But you unashamedly accuse people of doing as you do...inventing your own religion based on lawlessness. You want a god that justifies your sins and sinfulness. But that is a genie god...not the living God.
So then you expose yourself in your rebellious attitude. You refuse to read the bible for what it says....and invent fallacies.
So nothing more can be said. Learn to read and then learn to respect what the bible records.
This is all basic stuff. Reading comprehension and honesty. You are lacking in both.
How can anyone seriously speak with someone who ignores God's standard by refusing the true grace that empowers men to obey the commands of God. You won't understand the deeper walk...but only what is natural and carnal to man. And you expect God will be satisfied with lip service.
Is. 40:29 He gives power to the weak, And to those who have no might He increases strength.
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I've heard this response before and think it is the dumbest response ever.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Are you perfect?
Please tell us, Do you practice what you preach?
An easy yes or no will suffice, Otherwise, You have nothing of value to offer me
I mean think about it, You keep telling everyone how they have to meet some standard. Yet you refuse to admit if you keep that standard yourself? That just shows
1. You know you do not live that standard, and your conscious will not allow you to lie
2. You know it will hurt your testimony, Because you know NO ONE is perfect.
or
3. Your just here to push your view down everyone, knowing you can not even live up to it yourself
Neither one of which is helping your case, or what your trying to share.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Oh?
I think saying that Jesus did not pay for every sin but the sin of unbelief is actually the dumbest response ever, But I do not like to say things like this, It is prideful and not very christlike. and does not help any conversation would you not agree?
What I said is fact. All my sin was future when jesus died
As were yours.
its not dumb to think this, it is a fact.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You have twisted Peter's words. And besides, it was not you I was referring to, but to whomever started that ridiculous hypothesis.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yeah
Well you love to keep telling me I am wrong,
How about some proof.
I already gave you proof. And I do not here you counter any of my arguments.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Twisted peters words? I did not even quote peter
Ridiculous saying
so your calling a fact ridiculous
Jesus died over 2000 years ago. How can you sit there and say it is ridiculous to say all of my sins were future tense when Christ died?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Since your reading comprehension is so poor...I will repeat the same answer again...for the sake of they who are reading this thread and have some reading comprehension. (although they will have already understood what I have said)
I am not perfect. Jesus is perfect. But the gospel is that I take on HIS perfection when I enter into Him. So then IN Him I walk as He walked....without sin.
Yes.
Yes the standard of God. You ignore that standard to make up your own. In your eyes, your own justification is sufficient for thee,
See above. You aren't understanding the spiritual walk at all. We go in and out of His perfection as we abide in Christ. That is the training of Christ. To stay there for days, or weeks, months and years...depending on our maturity level IN His holiness.
If you had faith and understanding of Jesus Christ you would know that He is perfect. And if you had faith you could enter into His perfection...which is by grace through faith. But you are doing as you say I'm doing...promoting a false and vain view of a religion without any power....just a god who looks the other way and cleans up your mess...all your life. And a person who refuses to enter into His rest.
Your scheme doesn't work with the biblical text. And it doesn't work in real life...unless powerlessness is seen as being in Christ to you.
So you deny the power of Christ that makes us more than conquerors through His blood (life). Instead you defend the right of the carnal man to continue in the power of sin and the flesh.
So of course you can't stop sinning. It is your actual life.
But to abide in Christ means to walk...as long as one keeps the faith...exactly as Jesus walked (see I say it over and over again but you can't understand what I say nor the bible)
Does anyone else...besides they who have already weighed in...understand the difference between the gospel according to power and the powerless dogmatic view of easy grace?
A crucial thing to understand is that spiritual people go in and out of the Spirit. So then perfection is experienced in this way. We stay in the Spirit as long as our spiritual maturity holds up against, temptation, the wiles of the devil etc...
What is normal for a spiritual person is that he remains in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time as maturity is gained...until a person no longer leaves the Spirit at all. THAT is the full stature of Christ.
But most modern believers have never experienced the abundant grace of God ....whereby supernatural power rests on the one believing. THAT is what grace is about. But that is why so many fight against the grace of God...even while claiming to be under a (false) grace that is without power.
What is normal for a spiritual person is that he remains in the Spirit for longer and longer periods of time as maturity is gained...until a person no longer leaves the Spirit at all. THAT is the full stature of Christ.
But most modern believers have never experienced the abundant grace of God ....whereby supernatural power rests on the one believing. THAT is what grace is about. But that is why so many fight against the grace of God...even while claiming to be under a (false) grace that is without power.
What is to marvel at is...they who cannot or will not understand the gospel...are really not meant to perceive it. At one point we must accept that it is God who softens and hardens hearts. He looks at our attitude. If we must pass everything through our minds first...He will not reveal Himself to these.
So we must receive the things of God as a child would. And a child doesn't limit God the way we see people doing all around us.
So we must receive the things of God as a child would. And a child doesn't limit God the way we see people doing all around us.
IT is as if you posted watermelons are purple with pink stripes and yellow squares.
There is no argument from Scripture there, nor from Scripture to reply to it. When anyone makes a patently false statement, without any Scripture for support or for origin of the idea,
that's how it is for any one.
i.e. nothing from Scripture. If actually post something from Scripture, that would be good, right?
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