Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[Dcopymope]

No. Not right. You did not even answer the simplest question. WHO sanctified shabbat ? (hint: in Genesis)

:) Well God obviously, didn't think this is something that even needed to be answered to start with, and I think the answer was obvious in my last post anyway.

 

[Joseph77]

Well God obviously, didn't think this is something that even needed to be answered to start with, and I think the answer was obvious in my last post anyway.

Well, it seems clear and plain- "obvious", but is not accepted by most people , religious or otherwise, on earth, anywhere.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Thats right a God that loves mankind, funny how we make Him out to be a horrible scallywag. God is Love, that will never change.

All I am doing is initially showing to the unsaved that God is a God of justice who will judge them according to their deeds at the last judgment. This is in line with the Holy Spirit who convicts of sin - that we have all broken the Ten Commandments; of righteousness - that we need to be righteousness before God which is impossible without knowing that we are sinners and needing the righteousness of Christ; of judgment to come - that everything they have done and said will be put under God's spotlight at the judgment.

To get solid, long-term conversions to Christ we need to work in cooperation with the Holy Spirit to bring conviction of sin to the unsaved, then once they have been convinced they are sinners deserving of judgment and hell, and actually admit it themselves, then we can present the love of God that He sent Jesus to die for them to take their penalty upon Himself for sin. Unless an unsaved person is convinced of their sinfulness and terrible danger as they wait for death and judgment, they will not see exactly why Jesus died on the cross and therefore have a defective view of the necessity and value of our salvation in Christ. Consequently they will see becoming a Christian would be little more than merely joining a religious "club"; and when persecution, sickness, and suffering occurs they will become discouraged and will fall away, like 95% of converts from modern evangelistic crusades do.

Also, those who have never been totally convinced of their sinfulness, are the ones who tend to have a "more holy than thou" attitude to others they think are born again less than themselves. They are the ones who are quick to criticise those who appear to have lower standards than themselves. It would be no surprise that at least 50% of modern church members across all denominations are actually religious hypocrites, but on outward appearances we wouldn't know it - but God looks into the hearts and He knows who are really his.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, it seems clear and plain- "obvious", but is not accepted by most people , religious or otherwise, on earth, anywhere.

Its why I have little patience for people who reject what is plainly stated. Life is too short to be arguing about it with someone being willfully dense just to uphold their own personal interpretations.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Right, if Christians are concerned about which day is the sabbath, they are concerned about the wrong thing, because our rest is in the one who sanctified it to start with. This is why the book says it was made for us, not for God. Its quite silly that some people actually believe that God actually needs "rest".

When it says that God rested, it didn't mean that He was tired and needed rest after the six days of creating, but He stopped creating on the sixth day and set the seventh day as a rest for us. He set up the seven day week because after the fall, the human body lost its immortal perfection and needed regular rest, so to keep the correct level of health, He decreed six days of rest and one of rest. So the seventh day rest is for us so that we don't damage ourselves through burnout, which happens to the human body when a person works seven days a week over a long period of time. Ask any soldier during wartime during an extended battle that lasts for months at a time.

 

[mjrhealth]

So, you think that raping three women and cutting their throats is right because God is a God of love and will let the rapist get away with it just for saying, "I'm sorry Lord, I won't do it again?"

You know that calling men sinners bit,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Luk_6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

so tell me is that good for you. Condemn teh world and you do yourself along with it.

and since this is about teh Sabbath, it is wah tever you make of it, saturday, sunday, or everyday. God is not that fussed.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You know that calling men sinners bit,

Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Luk_6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

so tell me is that good for you. Condemn teh world and you do yourself along with it.

and since this is about teh Sabbath, it is wah tever you make of it, saturday, sunday, or everyday. God is not that fussed.

Cobbling random verses together doesn't make your point convincing.

So, if the Holy Spirit convinced an unsaved person of his sin, then are you saying that He is judging that person wrongly?

 

[Dcopymope]

When it says that God rested, it didn't mean that He was tired and needed rest after the six days of creating, but He stopped creating on the sixth day and set the seventh day as a rest for us. He set up the seven day week because after the fall, the human body lost its immortal perfection and needed regular rest, so to keep the correct level of health, He decreed six days of rest and one of rest. So the seventh day rest is for us so that we don't damage ourselves through burnout, which happens to the human body when a person works seven days a week over a long period of time. Ask any soldier during wartime during an extended battle that lasts for months at a time.

Well true, but what I find interesting is that he declared the day of rest before the fall, not after. Going by your assumption that he did it because he knew or bodies would shut down without proper rest. it only raises more questions than answers, regarding the "choice" he gave Adam between the two tree's. The way in which people treat the Eden event, its as if they seriously believe God didn't already know what what was going to happen.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well true, but what I find interesting is that he declared the day of rest before the fall, not after. Going by your assumption that he did it because he knew or bodies would shut down without proper rest. it only raises more questions than answers, regarding the "choice" he gave Adam between the two tree's. The way in which people treat the Eden event, its as if they seriously believe God didn't already know what what was going to happen.

Yes He did. I wasn't accounting for that. I was going to say that God actually designed the human body to work six days and rest on the seventh but didn't previously because I was looking forward to the Ten Commandments. But you are quite correct. God did set up the seven day week with six days work and one day of rest, by setting the example that He Himself created for six days and stopped on the seventh.

 

[mjrhealth]

Cobbling random verses together doesn't make your point convincing.

So, if the Holy Spirit convinced an unsaved person of his sin, then are you saying that He is judging that person wrongly?

We are not talking about the holy spirit here are ,we we are talking about you, telling the world they are sinners and condemning them all. You know that bit, he who is without sin, cast teh first stone...

 

[Paul Christensen]

We are not talking about the holy spirit here are ,we we are talking about you, telling the world they are sinners and condemning them all. You know that bit, he who is without sin, cast teh first stone...

Oh well...
Good luck on getting solid converts when you share your gospel with them!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

That's the problem. The law has done its job when a person has turned to Christ.

No, never. Scripture, Paul and Jesus Christ, say, "man shall be under the Law for as long as he lives", and, "no iota or tittle of the Law shall pass", and, "heaven and earth shall pass, but the Commandment(s) of God shall stay" and go through into and throughout eternity.

NEVERTHELESS, although this is true, Jesus inaugurated the eternity of HIMSELF THE LAW OF GOD IN PERSON, THROUGH THAT HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD AGAIN, THE VERY ONE AND ONLY LAW WORD OF GOD IN ABSOLUTE AGREEMENT WITH EVERY WORD OF THE WRITTEN LAW THAT WAS FOR THE TIMES BEFORE HIM.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If you apply the law to Christian believers, you are implying that their faith in Christ is not enough and they have to add works in order to continue to be accepted of God.

YOU KNOW THAT IT IS NOT TRUE. And, you would not have said such thing EVER, were it not that you seek a way to sneak out from under your situation under the Law of the TRUTH OF THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH OF THE LORD GOD HE THUS CONCERNING -- EVER -- HAS SPOKEN BY THE SON."
That, and nothing else!

That, I say and maintain and will not swerve from TELLING, YOU, and everybody in the world, else! For this God called me, his most unworthy servant who ever breathed God's air.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I am not surprised that people would reject what you are trying to impress on them, because you are applying the law when they have already accepted the grace and mercy of God and are converted to Christ.

"Those I love" <already> - says GOD - "As many as I love I rebuke and chasten-- be zealous therefore and repent." These, the Lord Jesus' words, are directed at <<people (who) have already accepted the grace and mercy of God and are converted to Christ>>-- NOT TO STRANGERS TO GRACE! Spurgeon said that true repentance is never satisfied with itself. So real conversion and godly acceptance. And so the believer is never satisfied with or proud of his faith.
Again, What's your case? Your issue is with NOTHING but the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD of the Fourth Commandment of the Law. It offends you. And you presume the grace and mercy of God make of the Seventh Day -- mark, specifically the Seventh Day Sabbath-of-the-week, an evil and sinful legacy and relic from Israel's speciality in idolatry.

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh well...
Good luck on getting solid converts when you share your gospel with them!

What you think condeming people will get you solid coverts, oh how short sighted you are.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

When I apply the Ten Commandments, I apply them to unsaved people to show that they are not good people. Once they have humbled themselves and acknowledged that they have broken the Commandments and in danger of the judgment, then I show them the good news of what Christ has done for them on the cross.

Christ's order is just the opposite, and Christ's order is the Bible sequence and the only effective way of the Gospel of the GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST WHICH IS THE POWER OF GOD TO SAVE. Never the Law first, but the Law after, which is what Paul always had in mind when dealing with the issue of the Law.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You are not the Holy Spirit, whose role is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come. Christian believers have the Holy Spirit within, and therefore they don't need someone external to "humble" them or deal with their "pride". If you are apply the law to converted believers in the name of the Lord, you could be breaking the third Commandment by making wrong use of the Lord's name.

Just another of your veiled judgements I just love to submit to and Laodecean self-righteousness excuses I so love to see you make!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Short answer, neither, for the Christian, our "sabbath" is the one who fulfilled it, Jesus Christ.

No, You must mean, for you, Dcopymopkop. What an insult to Jesus Christ that you call Him the Sabbath, and what an idolatrous exaltation of the Sabbath that you call it your Jesus Christ!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If and when you contradict Scripture, or reject Scripture, that is as Jesus says rejecting Jesus and the Father.

AMEN

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

We are not talking about the holy spirit here are ,we we are talking about you, telling the world they are sinners and condemning them all. You know that bit, he who is without sin, cast teh first stone...

Hokaai, I'm the one Paul Christensen just said is the Holy Spirit!