Mind Loops

[Episkopos]

We could call the mind loops that are instilled in us through propaganda...circular reasoning.

And how much is this pathological conditioning the basis for much of what we believe about the bible?

Life is circular...as in..the circle of life. But our minds can be set free from circular reasoning. Mind loops are caused by an inability to think STRAIGHT.

When a person gets lost in a forest they tend to go around in circles. I can attest to that as I have been lost in a forest and found my own tracks.

So even as life puts us in a circle...we can be freed from the constraints of a circular reasoning. So there is a huge difference between life circles and mind loops.

When a person has no actual experience in a certain domain...say...spiritual life...they will take on the most plausible human explanation (the easiest for the carnal mind to digest) and remain fixed in that way of thinking. And no matter what other evidence is brought to the contrary...biblical or life experience...they will not opt out of the loop.

But conversions are possible and do exist...otherwise posting on the forum would be futile. But change comes with suffering and trials. It is God's mercy that He brings us these things to take us and free us from our limiting mind loops. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. (the last sentence is also a verse) :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We could call the mind loops that are instilled in us through propaganda...circular reasoning.

And how much is this pathological conditioning the basis for much of what we believe about the bible?

Life is circular...as in..the circle of life. But our minds can be set free from circular reasoning. Mind loops are caused by an inability to think STRAIGHT.

When a person gets lost in a forest they tend to go around in circles. I can attest to that as I have been lost in a forest and found my own tracks.

So even as life puts us in a circle...we can be freed from the constraints of a circular reasoning. So there is a huge difference between life circles and mind loops.

When a person has no actual experience in a certain domain...say...spiritual life...they will take on the most plausible human explanation (the easiest for the carnal mind to digest) and remain fixed in that way of thinking. And no matter what other evidence is brought to the contrary...biblical or life experience...they will not opt out of the loop.

But conversions are possible and do exist...otherwise posting on the forum would be futile. But change comes with suffering and trials. It is God's mercy that He brings us these things to take us and free us from our limiting mind loops. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. (the last sentence is also a verse) :)

loops...yeah exactly. Have those still in many ways but less than before. so hopeful. The counselor I was seeing a couple years ago said I was stuck in an “neurological loop”. God can straighten what has been made crooked. Luckily the counselor said very little but always pointed to Him as the answer. At the time I would just secretly roll my eyes at any mention of God thinking “you have no idea how deep these loops go”.

 

[Episkopos]

The dialectic. Our brains have two hemispheres. We are wired in our minds to see things 2 ways...the known and the unknown. Order and chaos. We are hard-wired to react to danger and chaos by trying to make order out of things. That's how we can try figuring things out. A healthy mind is constantly turning the unknown into a new known. That's how we learn. That's how we grow. But most religious people are unable to learn. Most of the bible remains chaotic for these. And they can't think for themselves because of a dogmatic grasp on a few limited thoughts. Anything prophetic, spiritual or unknown to these is seen as evil. The Pharisees are a prime example of this kind of imprisonment of the mind.

So for us truth is presented as a dialectic. This requires the WHOLE mind to get involved...not just the easy to appease order part. We know IN PART...the easy part...and the rest we take by faith and trust in God. The chaos part is prophetic. When we add in our mind with God's mind...we get synthesis...the truth. So we remain OPEN in the mind for God's voice to penetrate....either through the Spirit directly...or through a brother.

So we have thesis and antithesis...to get synthesis. To try this out we get a friend who gives us a different viewpoint...and then put the ideas we have with that. And that's the real purpose of debate and dialogue. Coming to agreement. The bible should always be presented as a dialogue. When Paul preached it was called "dialogos"...the same goes for Jesus Himself.

We need outside help to understand the deeper things of God. We need God...and the ones He sends to us. The bible works in this way IF we don't limit the bible to what we already know (or think we know).

So then a church meeting should have dialogos and challenging ideas that make us grow in knowledge and understanding. otherwise we are being indoctrinated and being taught NOT to think.

 

[Episkopos]

loops...yeah exactly. Have those still in many ways but less than before. so hopeful. The counselor I was seeing a couple years ago said I was stuck in an “neurological loop”. God can straighten what has been made crooked. Luckily the counselor said very little but always pointed to Him as the answer. At the time I would just secretly roll my eyes at any mention of God thinking “you have no idea how deep these loops go”.

Amen! And thank you for that testimony and confirmation. May the Lord take us deeper into His confidence! :)

 

[Episkopos]

What can be in the realm of the known for one person can be in the realm of the unknown in another. In fact this is on purpose! God shows different things to different people so we might learn from one another.

The devil wants to put an end to people sharing things and coming to the perfect understanding and unity of the truth. So he creates denominations and loops for people to remain "secure" in. When we close our minds to exploring the unknown we are really serving the devil...since we shut ourselves off from the body of Christ and even the Spirit of God. The devil divides and conquers us in this way. Should we oblige him?

The basic human being is afraid of the unknown. And the devil can use this to his advantage.

But love casts out ALL fear...especially the unknown.... especially what the brethren are speaking to us about. If we embrace the body of Christ we will have no fear...and we will serve God with all our minds. We are commanded to use our WHOLE minds. And the only way that happens is to open the mind and receive the WHOLE counsel of God.

of course this will be uncomfortable...and VERY uncomfortable for many. But we are not to look to our own comfort. If we comfort ourselves God will NOT send HIS comforter to us. When we have explored the unknown...so that God teaches us His mysteries....His Spirit will bring us a perfect peace and joy IN the truth.

OR...we can be happy with the tiny feedback loops that our natural minds latch onto. And some feedback loops are so small that a person can only repeat the same things again and again.

 

[Episkopos]

A classic religious mind loop comes with the query "are you saved"???

That loop is so irksome because you realize that there is not much behind it. It is a mindless statement so often that is only ready to hear dogmatic answers. No mystery...nothing spiritual...no heavenly interference. Just the pew filling notion of being religiously affiliated or not. It is an offer to join the closed mind sect that assumes all things and presumes the rest.

So my answer is usually..but not always ;) ....are you serious? Do you even know what that means?

It is like asking others if they have swallowed the kool ade...or have you been religiously indoctrinated yet? Have you joined the Borg?

These things should be discouraged so that God isn't mocked and the churches can stop being such a scorn and ridiculed. But that's the way people like it. It just makes it that much harder to convince people that not everyone is like that who is a believer.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The basic human being is afraid of the unknown. And the devil can use this to his advantage.

Thank you for the edification in all your post here. Can relate to being afraid of the unknown. Even so much so that whenever face to face with someone and see something begin to crumble...a moment passes in their facial expression of fear of this unknown and they quickly grasp to cover it up and bury it again. Maybe seeing it since I do the same. When someone speaks something which needs to heard and I don’t like it. Get what you are saying of these loops of religion and circles and repeats of the same regurgitated things. Rather chooses to remain in a lie then approach letting the lies fall away. Where if for a second they could consider anything without the loop ...every thing false would come crashing down around them. Their ideas. There predictions of the future. Their theology. It is terrifying and sorrowful to consider everything you’ve ever been lead to hold fast to, is false. been there so much so that can agree it is painful to see all you have is false, and the unknown has already come upon you. How will you build and start over when years upon years of deception are destroyed?

Also what you said of order and chaos. Strange thing is trying to make sense or order out of life through our own control set over things; a foolish vain attempt, which only generate more chaos. Not order. 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Jeremiah 7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord : do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you for the edification in all your post here. Can relate to being afraid of the unknown. Even so much so that whenever face to face with someone and see something begin to crumble...a moment passes in their facial expression of fear of this unknown and they quickly grasp to cover it up and bury it again. Maybe seeing it since I do the same. When someone speaks something which needs to heard and I don’t like it. Get what you are saying of these loops of religion and circles and repeats of the same regurgitated things. Rather chooses to remain in a lie then approach letting the lies fall away. Where if for a second they could consider anything without the loop ...every thing false would come crashing down around them. Their ideas. There predictions of the future. Their theology. It is terrifying and sorrowful to consider everything you’ve ever been lead to hold fast to, is false. been there so much so that can agree it is painful to see all you have is false, and the unknown has already come upon you. How will you build and start over when years upon years of deception are destroyed?

Also what you said of order and chaos. Strange thing is trying to make sense or order out of life through our own control set over things; a foolish vain attempt, which only generate more chaos. Not order. 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Jeremiah 7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord : do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

I think that love paves the way for understanding and knowledge. If you are in a good body relationship and a brother speaks to you from love. Then that face to you becomes familiar...not unknown but known. And if the message he brings is unknown...the known brother can help that message to at least be considered without fear.

The truth is that we have all been fooled and deceived in the past. But these people didn't love us. They presented a false face to us.

But the cure to a bad relationship....is a good relationship. So we are never fully lost. :) That is IF we keep trusting God with an open mind. We will find if we continue to seek.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think that love paves the way for understanding and knowledge. If you are in a good body relationship and a brother speaks to you from love. Then that face to you becomes familiar...not unknown but known. And if the message he brings is unknown...the known brother can help that message to at least be considered without fear.

The truth is that we have all been fooled and deceived in the past. But these people didn't love us. They presented a false face to us.

But the cure to a bad relationship....is a good relationship. So we are never fully lost. :) That is IF we keep trusting God with an open mind. We will find if we continue to seek.

one last thought on your thread then I’m going to take a nap. Been a long week. These loops seem strong. My husband says often whenever he signs on to the board “it goes round and round on the same things. Over and over.”

 

[Episkopos]

For me personally I tend to be fearless of the unknown...because my first experience of the great unknown was being baptized in the Spirit. So I have a HOME base with God that doesn't get shaken. Not that I haven't been fooled by people or a spirit maybe a time or two. But the deviation is very brief...until I get back on track again, having learned a deeper lesson about myself and others.

But I find a lot of people are afraid of spiritual things. Look at all the Cessationists out there. A real pity. And the people who have tried to understand spiritual gifts but have only had bad human examples to follow.

We all need to be freed from our brain loops by being taken to a higher vantage point...being seated in heavenly places...to see things prophetically. And if we can't go there ourselves...then to really hear the testimony of others who have. After all, if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet...you get a prophet's reward. (the same goes for a righteous man) :)

 

[Episkopos]

one last thought on your thread then I’m going to take a nap. Been a long week. These loops seem strong. My husband says often whenever he signs on to the board “it goes round and round on the same things. Over and over.”

Yes. Most religious people are in the wilderness of the mind. And you can see it so easily. And they assume you are also in the same wilderness. So they close their minds to remain that way.

 

[Episkopos]

Logic and reason: Now some see these as being bad. But to go against logic and reason is to be illogical and unreasonable. The same goes for sanity...the lack thereof is insanity.

We are to be sober minded.

How many times does it say that Paul reasoned with people from the word?

We are to go farther than others...not just go down a completely different road. We are to go the extra mile...not take a turn into left field. So there is this notion that we are no longer to be able to reason with people. Instead we invite them to a nonsensical thought process we are to accept for salvation's sake...that is in no way logical or reasonable. That is a sure sign of a religious dogmatism.

The kingdom of God is indeed logic based. It's just that we must invert the value systems of the world to see it. And there IS a value system...and a hierarchy of importance with the things of God. Otherwise why did Jesus ask the Pharisees which was better...and they always getting the answer right?

it is then just a question of framing the issue in the right context. but even then the dishonest men still wouldn't change their ways. And so it is with the modern loop thinkers. You can fool them into speaking the truth...but they will subsequently deny it in their lives.

People have not changed. The kingdom of God has not changed. And the ability to create ideological religious loops is still very much in style.

 

[Episkopos]

The wilderness of the mind: Now the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years...one year for every day the spies were in the land for.
But they didn't believe the hard things...just the easy things. And that is exactly what we see in today's churches.

Why break up our way of thinking just because God is here? That's how the reasoning goes. And yet with God ALL things are possible...even the hard things. Is anything too difficult for God?

So then God seeks to break up our mind loops through faith in Him and His ways. Believe in the Lord and cease going in circles. But instead people want to limit God and include God in THEIR circles....making Him behave in a way that THEY want. A captive God. A servant God. A genie God. As in...We just want salvation for ourselves....with NO commandments or conditions...oh, and a side order of fries.

So who is leading whom?

People always claim that Jesus is in them...which kind of bestows an ownership of Jesus to that person. And is sounds easy. No need for actual faith...just a dogmatic belief will suffice for that.

But the power comes from going to God to abide in Him! And that sounds hard so people don't even try to seek the Lord. He is too far out of their mind loops to consider. Faith is a lot harder than belief...so nobody has it.

 

[amadeus]

@Episkopos
The Lord has, as I have allowed it, helped me to gather together at times some nourishing portions from His Word. But the Body of Christ consists of many parts. I hope to be one of them.

What I see here with this 'loop' is comparable to the way I have often worked jigsaw puzzles with my wife. She would take the straight border or edge pieces of the puzzle and piece them together into a form or outline or frame. While she worked on that I would work on certain parts of the innards, like the blue of sky or sea; or the green of grass or forest; or some other area. All of it is important to the completion of the puzzle. The real puzzle is the Body of Christ.

Eventually my completed sections would have to be inserted inside of hers to become part of the whole perfectly fitted together picture. The border or outline or frame may be seen as the skeleton, consisting of the unbroken bones of Jesus, to provide a firm foundation onto which, we, the parts of the Body of Christ, may be perfectly fitted together so that the Head, which is Jesus, will have a place to rest.

When there has been a need, God has sometimes used some of my still disconnected pieced together portions of the innards for encouragement or edification of other potential parts [people], but the picture does need that supporting or defining border or edge or frame or skeleton of bones.

Your posts here on mind-loops may then in their measure provide, as my wife with the jigsaw puzzle edges provided, a clearer view of the whole, which is under construction:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

Some people, who have been drawn to Jesus get as far as seeing "men as trees, walking". But...how many allow themselves to be touched that second time by the hands of Jesus to continue on their journey? Oh, Jesus is there to do the touching, but for many that is simply not along their determined route, their loop. If a person is comfortable in his loop, what can be done?

Their loop with only a very blurred vision of the whole mind of God takes them repeatedly back to that first touch, the one that some may say is the only one received or needed. Some, while not saying that, nevertheless follow the loop, the circular route, which provides perhaps nothing but more milk as nourishment? Can they ever be parts of the completed Body of Christ? Can any of them ever break open the Way to allow another touch by Jesus?

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos
The Lord has, as I have allowed it, helped me to gather together at times some nourishing portions from His Word. But the Body of Christ consists of many parts. I hope to be one of them.

What I see here with this 'loop' is comparable to the way I have often worked jigsaw puzzles with my wife. She would take the straight border or edge pieces of the puzzle and piece them together into a form or outline or frame. While she worked on that I would work on certain parts of the innards, like the blue of sky or sea; or the green of grass or forest; or some other area. All of it is important to the completion of the puzzle. The real puzzle is the Body of Christ.

Eventually my completed sections would have to be inserted inside of hers to become part of the whole perfectly fitted together picture. The border or outline or frame may be seen as the skeleton, consisting of the unbroken bones of Jesus, to provide a firm foundation onto which, we, the parts of the Body of Christ, may be perfectly fitted together so that the Head, which is Jesus, will have a place to rest.

When there has been a need, God has sometimes used some of my still disconnected pieced together portions of the innards for encouragement or edification of other potential parts [people], but the picture does need that supporting or defining border or edge or frame or skeleton of bones.

Your posts here on mind-loops may then in their measure provide, as my wife with the jigsaw puzzle edges provided, a clearer view of the whole, which is under construction:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

Some people, who have been drawn to Jesus get as far as seeing "men as trees, walking". But...how many allow themselves to be touched that second time by the hands of Jesus to continue on their journey? Oh, Jesus is there to do the touching, but for many that is simply not along their determined route, their loop. If a person is comfortable in his loop, what can be done?

Their loop with only a very blurred vision of the whole mind of God takes them repeatedly back to that first touch, the one that some may say is the only one received or needed. Some, while not saying that, nevertheless follow the loop, the circular route, which provides perhaps nothing but more milk as nourishment? Can they ever be parts of the completed Body of Christ? Can any of them ever break open the Way to allow another touch by Jesus?

This is very informative John... agreed. Who can see how the whole thing goes together? And yet leadership in the body would have to know at least in part.

But imagine excluding others because they...although a different and equally valid part of the puzzle...are rejected because they don't know what the picture looks like.

We need to be fitted together with love....as we express to the world the complete Jesus Christ. We are a living stones fitted together for the habitation of God.

I really like this analogy. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Religious mind loops: Since we see that people are so prone to engaging in mind loops...what are we to do with believers who don't know themselves or realize their own condition?
In a real church setting...such would be exposed and gently weaned from these false notions. But we see the very opposite thing happening in the churches of today. The preacher himself is a purveyor of religious mind loops. And the same sermons are being repeated over and over again.We see a hardening of the mind and a stiffening of the neck in many cases where dogmatic beliefs are being peddled.

When you add a human mind loop in with a religious promise.....a promise that has no actual evidence in reality...the result is a very persistent dependency on that ideology. It acts like a drug. People get addicted to the self-congratulatory sense of self-righteousness.

I have found that a person who latches onto a spiritual principle (actually not a real principle but a part of one taken out of context) with the carnal mind...that seems to serve the carnal man....is the hardest thing to break. The belief itself is seen as salvific, so that a person will NOT think it out. There is a fear that thinking things out will cause a loss of salvation. So then there is a fear of logic and deeper thought...as if God didn't want us to think and weigh things.

That is what is taught...don't question....just accept.

Is it any wonder that questioning is not allowed in any mainline institutions.

But a healthy church encourages questions.

The role of the devil is to make us swallow a lie. But with the freedom granted us to question and weigh things freely....most people will abandon the lie for a deeper understanding of the truth IF the alternative to the easy lies are presented early on. But NOT if a person has been seduced by an ideology based on certain misreadings of the bible....and this in the kind of indoctrinating repetitious mantra we see so much in modern sermons.

 

[Episkopos]

Religious obsessions: The "saved" obsession.


Sodzo...the word in the bible for "saved" mainly refers to deliverance and healings in the here and now. God is good and looks after people...both good and evil. He is showing HIS true colours by His mercy, kindness and patience.

The ship that Paul was in that was forced ashore but kept from breaking up...was a salvation work of God. Why are we not happy with that? Did all the people get eternal life? Of course not. But there is a witness there of God's provision.

But there is a religious obsession that comes with that word "saved". When the idea of a permanent salvation is mixed with the ego...you get all manner of evil things. (and religious obsession causes strife NOT love)

Taking away the guarantee of eternal success from a person is like taking drugs from a junkie...or candy from a baby. We see the result of that reaction in these threads.

 

[Episkopos]

New Discoveries: As long as we are enslaved by the ordinary routines and same old things over and over again...we avoid any possibility of new discoveries. Our comfort zone precludes adventure. Our spiritual advancement is stunted so that we remain as we always were.

There is a hymn that says "onward Christian soldiers....going where we have not gone before."

But that is not the experience of most believers...who take one step...and then remain there...permanently: statically poised to refuse any amount of change to the betterment and pursuance of the race which is by faith.

So in honour of these un-intrepid athletes of the ordinary refusal towards advancement of any form of improvement and growth we have this hymn.

Backward, Christian soldiers, fleeing from the fight,
With the cross of Jesus nearly out of sight.
Christ, our rightful Master, stands against the foe,
But forward into battle we are loathe to go.

Refrain:
Backward, Christian soldiers, fleeing from the fight,
With the cross of Jesus nearly out of sight.

Like a mighty tortoise moves the Church of God;
Brothers we are treading where we’ve always trod.
We are much divided, many bodies we,
Having many doctrines, not much charity.

Crowns and thorns may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
But the Church of Jesus hidden does remain.
Gates of hell should never ’gainst the Church prevail;
We have Christ’s own promise, but think that it will fail.

Sit here then ye people, join our useless throng,
Blend with ours your voices in a feeble song.
Blessings, ease and comfort, ask from Christ the King;
With our modern thinking, we don’t do a thing.

 

[Episkopos]

Stuck in our own minds means being absent from God.

"And it will come about at that time That I will search Jerusalem with lamps, And I will punish the men Who are stagnant in spirit [that are settled on their lees - KJV], Who say in their hearts, 'The LORD will not do good or evil!'" (Zeph. 1:12)

All mind loops are darkness.

Eph. 5:14 Therefore He says: “Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light.”

 

[marks]

Taking away the guarantee of eternal success from a person is like taking drugs from a junkie...or candy from a baby. We see the result of that reaction in these threads.

More like robbing people of their hope.

Eternal life is not the reward for good works. There's a "mind loop" for you!