Judaism or Christianity?

[Reggie Belafonte]

Pretty much what I believe! Such is the permanent union of God and His people among the Israelites that believe in Him.

Nazi !
With that attitude you would be just like the Nazis at the death camps, oh you are a Jew ? so regardless of if this Jew was truly a Christian and even born again, your attitude would be the same, oh he is a Jew regardless !

I myself have come across such total ignorance in such so called Christians claiming that I am a Jew, they are that rude and demanding that I have just had to walk away from them, thinking boy I am lucky that I am not in Nazi Germany with that mob around or they would surely of marched me off to the camps in a heart beat.
This mob are all about the Jews doing their bidding as to what they want out of what they see as Prophecy, that is what drives them fools. they are a works based bunch of dimwits but they fail to comprehend that they are of s works doctrine, they staunchly claim not to be works based but in reality they sure as hell are, just because they deny the reality of such facts does not cut it with me at all.

Sorry to say that what they see as divine will ? to such a mob will easy excuse them to make any claim viable, look at the bastardisation of the Genocide of 6 million Jews, this mob claim such to be the will of their god in fact ! by demanding such was a burnt offering ? Holocaust ! that is what the word Holocaust truly means, a burnt offering ! really I say ! you are claiming that a burnt offering to god ! now most people are oblivious to this point I am making and it's because they have been conditioned and they do not think for themselves to question what is portrayed to them year after year and so it does not click that they have been mislead and just go along with the flow in ignorance.

Now I am of the opinion that this Genocide of 6 million Jews was a total act of Satan and I will point out that God had nothing to do with such at all and that it was the works of Man ! totally a works of Mans madness, they were lead astray by the works of Satan's power over Man.

To call the Genocide of them 6 million Jews a Holocaust is a grave insult to me and any worthy Christian should have the brain capacity to understand that it is a work of Satan to call such a Holocaust. because such is offending God in fact. God did not have a hand in it at all it was Mans madness lead astray by the workings of Satan in fact.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Pretty much what I believe! Such is the permanent union of God and His people among the Israelites that believe in Him.

If such were the case then Christ died in vain, the gospel is useless. No need for Jews to hear the gospel and be remitted of their sin Acts 2. No need for Paul to desire the Jews be saved (Romans 10:1) when they cannot be lost. The rich young ruler saved anyway though he did not have everlasting life (Matthew 19), the rich man in torment saved in torment though he was a Jew (Luke 16:28)?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Satanist claim to support the Jews ? but true Judaism does not support Satanist at all.
Sadly the works of Satan works within all denominations regardless and anyone who rejects such is a fool.
In the OT we see this clearly and within Christianity we see this clearly at work in all denominations regardless.

 

[Mike Waters]

For me this threads opens up the wider question concerning the entire cosmos that we now know to stretch right around the globe to the far antipathy of the Mediterranean confines of the earliest Abrahamic religion from which Judaism and Christianity morphed.

Accepting that God created the entire universe we have to accept that God also created the far eastern homo sapiens that are archaeologically evidenced from well before the Bible’s ‘Garden of Eden’.
On that basis God had a very wide choice before he decided on Bethlehem for the incarnation of Christ.
Doubtless the way in which the Mediterranean religion of Judaism embraced the coming of a Messiah was a major factor (to say nothing of the belief that God had deliberately prepared it that way in anticipation of Christ’s incarnation).
But that doesn’t mean that God’s only interest was in the peoples of the Mediterranean confines who, at the time, had no understanding of the wider world and its global curvature; and we really ought to widen our concern far beyond that of Judaism and Western Christendom.

Some time after the geological division of the land mass that open up the Mediterranean sea to that of the Atlantic, the Greek god Hercules built towers either side of the Straits of Gibraltar.
Unaware of the earth’s curvature it was thought that when ships sailed out into the Atlantic and disappeared over the horizon, they had fallen off into oblivion, and hence the towers’ warning against sailing thereon (mythological legend, of course, but similarly based to the mythological legend of the ‘Great Flood’).

The point of my post being the need, in the age of our cosmic enlightenment, to embrace the entire human race that we believe God to have created rather than preoccupying ourselves with the relationship of Judaism to Christianity.
And that has to include those who die (and have already died) without ever so much as seeing a ‘Bible’ or hearing what we call ‘the Gospel message’.
The Bible makes little mention of such folk; having been completed way before missionary outreach began to extend early Christians’ geographical horizons.
But we can extrapolate the wider divine provision for such folk from Romans 1:20-23.

Please forebear with my somewhat diversion from the thread, and my radical approach to what I have always called ‘the wider question’ …… thoughts which Amadeus and Guiliano might remember to have led to me being banned from True2Ourselves forum and me thereafter creating my own versions of small ‘c’, catholic forums.

Otherwise God’s richest blessings to you all…..Mike

 

[Davy]

The religion of Judaism came out of the seventy years Babylon captivity of the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). It was a corruption of what Moses taught. The Babylonian Talmud was a writing by Jewish sages that came out of the Babylonian corruption, and that is what Judaism is based upon. So ANY... reference to Judaism as being the true religion that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses is simply a huge fib. This is why our Lord Jesus warned His disciples about the traditions of the scribes, Sadduccees and Pharisees. They had corrupted God's Word by applying their own traditions.

 

[Davy]

I agree 100%. I've been saying this for years myself. But... someone may protest, the Jews rejected Christ and like anyone who does so is lost. Therefore they reason the church has to pick up the pieces and carry on with what the original writers and people of the bible could not (replacement theology). But they confuse rejection of Christ with God rejecting them. He's not through with them yet. It's God who calls us to salvation and it may not be their time yet, so (I personally believe) that there is future salvation to them to keep the covenants with the Fathers who did have faith. In other words, they rejected Christ, but he did not reject them yet and as such are still his covenant people by whom Christ came.

Israel is a type and shadow of the Kingdom of God here on Earth, that which was prophesied since the garden, and Israel were the chosen people to carry out this model in which (by extension) the Kingdom will come. If the Jew, Old Testament, etc do not mean anything any longer, the whole purpose and pattern in the bible is terminated and there is no plan or purpose. Either that of God changed his mind and came up with "plan B" which seems to contradict the scripture Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. This is why you have so much diverse opinion and doctrine that does nothing but causes confusion.

You seem to be lamenting "replacement theology". I call it the "Gentilization of the Bible" where they put the Gentile spin to the interpretation of the bible. Thus, the Sabbath has been done away with and replaced by another day, the God-ordained feasts days were replaced by pagan celebration days (no, the feasts were not meant for 'only the Jew" lest we miss the whole point of the bible), and strange beliefs about mankind, the afterlife and eschatology. Much Greek thought (and wherever they got that from) went into the Western interpretation of the bible.

The church is the firstfruits of God's salvation to help rule and reign with him, in which Israel, now covenanted with a new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) will very much be in the picture. The church replaced nobody. The church (be they Jews are Gentiles) are just the first called ones. The rest will be called later, after this age.

Amazing how 'seemingly' intelligent men can write so eloquently, yet reading the simplicity in God's Word continues to put them to shame. What I speak of is the misunderstanding of the OP, and yours concerning the matter of God's Israel.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea 1 to Gentile Roman believers on Christ Jesus. Thing is, the Book of Hosea was written 'specifically'... to the ten tribed "house of Israel", not to Gentiles. So likewise in Romans 11, Paul was showing how God has preserved a remnant of Israel according to the election of grace (which Christ's Apostles serve as types), while the rest of Israel He blinded with the spirit of stupor so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. And through God's mercy to the believing Gentiles, the unbelieving of Israel shall in final be turned to Christ once God removes that blindness He put upon them, which Paul gave a time for that also, when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Get it? God put blindness on the majority of unbelieving Jews. God will remove that blindness in final. Then... those unbelieving Jews MUST also choose Christ, as we have. Those who refuse Him will remain cut off. Simple.

But Hosea 1 to Gentiles? By that Apostle Paul showed that God's Promises to Israel continued with The NEW COVENANT JESUS CHRIST. It's as simple as that. Those who say it didn't are pushing a continued 'old covenant' which is actually dead!

 

[liafailrock]

Amazing how 'seemingly' intelligent men can write so eloquently, yet reading the simplicity in God's Word continues to put them to shame. What I speak of is the misunderstanding of the OP, and yours concerning the matter of God's Israel.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea 1 to Gentile Roman believers on Christ Jesus. Thing is, the Book of Hosea was written 'specifically'... to the ten tribed "house of Israel", not to Gentiles. So likewise in Romans 11, Paul was showing how God has preserved a remnant of Israel according to the election of grace (which Christ's Apostles serve as types), while the rest of Israel He blinded with the spirit of stupor so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. And through God's mercy to the believing Gentiles, the unbelieving of Israel shall in final be turned to Christ once God removes that blindness He put upon them, which Paul gave a time for that also, when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Get it? God put blindness on the majority of unbelieving Jews. God will remove that blindness in final. Then... those unbelieving Jews MUST also choose Christ, as we have. Those who refuse Him will remain cut off. Simple.

But Hosea 1 to Gentiles? By that Apostle Paul showed that God's Promises to Israel continued with The NEW COVENANT JESUS CHRIST. It's as simple as that. Those who say it didn't are pushing a continued 'old covenant' which is actually dead!

I believe in the 10-tribe house of Israel doctrines. I often just mention Jews (Judah) because many nominally learned Christians seem to either forget or otherwise seem to be oblivious to the 10 tribes. I don't know where these Christians stand because when I say "Israel" many think I mean only the Jews. No, there's other flesh and blood Israelites who became other nations (Genesis 35:11) and were not even in the land when Jesus was there. One of my favorite humorous verses is when the Jews murmur and ask the question regarding Jesus "Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?" because only the true Messiah could find the 10 tribes which were then considered Gentiles. To most, this goes over like a lead balloon. So, who became the great missionary and bible societies of the world? The Jews? Or was (the house of) Israel to be a light to the nations? To the rest of the Israelites, what I am saying is that they will be saved later. I think what many here erroneously assume is that rejection of Christ is final. But some were not yet called, so it's not a done deal yet. There's the millennium and the Great White Throne events yet before the new heaven and earth. Only at the New heavens and Earth will all deals be done. Before then, people can still be saved.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

ADDENDUM:

John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

John 15:23 "He that hateth me hateth my Father also."

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Mark 16:16 "....but he that believeth not shall be damned."

2 Thessalonians 1:8 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Matthew 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them (Jews), If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Many other verses as these I could cite but nowhere are exceptions made for the Jews in these verses.

 

[Netchaplain]

It would not seem correct to conceive that Jeremiah’s prophesy concerning Israel’s future “New Covenant’ could be the Christian’s present Covenant in Christ’s Blood because this Covenant that Jesus declared to the Jews (Luk 22:20; 1Co 11:25) is not between God and man (nowhere is this even alluded to), but between God and His Son (Heb 13:20). The Eze 31:31 prophesy is a future and eternal covenant between God and man--Israel.

 

[Davy]

I believe in the 10-tribe house of Israel doctrines. I often just mention Jews (Judah) because many nominally learned Christians seem to either forget or otherwise seem to be oblivious to the 10 tribes. I don't know where these Christians stand because when I say "Israel" many think I mean only the Jews. No, there's other flesh and blood Israelites who became other nations (Genesis 35:11) and were not even in the land when Jesus was there. One of my favorite humorous verses is when the Jews murmur and ask the question regarding Jesus "Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?" because only the true Messiah could find the 10 tribes which were then considered Gentiles. To most, this goes over like a lead balloon. So, who became the great missionary and bible societies of the world? The Jews? Or was (the house of) Israel to be a light to the nations? To the rest of the Israelites, what I am saying is that they will be saved later. I think what many here erroneously assume is that rejection of Christ is final. But some were not yet called, so it's not a done deal yet. There's the millennium and the Great White Throne events yet before the new heaven and earth. Only at the New heavens and Earth will all deals be done. Before then, people can still be saved.

Yes, yes, very much Yes, Yes!

The idea that only Jews represent Israel is a doctrine of men pushed upon the Biblically unlearned today. They won't study for their selves so they don't know about the two houses of Israel written of in God's Word and their separate histories. Some in the pulpits are even against any mention of either house. So no way are they going to properly understand what you have said.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

How does one prove that they are a Jew ? Blood line ? or follower of the OT Religion ?

Ok lets say that one can prove a blood line going back to Jesus day or before that ? ok what % can you prove.

Now take the Australian Aboriginals, to be a Aboriginal you have to be pure 100% and once such a one is breed in with a outsider they are a half cast, so fact is this person is a nothing ! such a one can not claim to be one or the other in reality. because such is half one and half the other in fact.
So such a one would be a fool to claim anything other. that was the ruling when I was young and everyone knew it.

But come say 1990 our government and such came up peddling dribble, so that now we have morons claiming to be Aboriginals, even totally white blond blue eyed morons claiming to be Aboriginals and my sisters hubby who is a no hoper bludging numskull typical lefty tried to make a claim so he would be looked after like royalty sponging off the tax payers, if it was not for all the handouts they get given he would not of bothered to try scam such, not to mention all the other dogs that go for such a deal.

So what is the go with why one would claim to be a Jew ? or is just some jerk that claims ok I have just found out that I am 3% or 10 % or 30 %Semitic ? so therefor I am a Jew, totally worthy as a 100% Jew, just like the morons who claim to be Australian Aboriginals and then turn around an reject all the other race's that they are and then start lording it over the pure breed Aboriginals in claiming that they know better than they do. it's true this is what such bastards do. and it's just amazing to see such rubbish, not to mention some sports person the media claim the X is an Aboriginal and I am like what ! where you could of fooled me.
If it walks like a duck looks like a duck etc like a duck I will say that it's a Duck, but if it says it's a Duck and looks like a goose I would say that it's a Goose.

Now we have idiots claiming to be indigenous Australians because they are born here, no ! that does not make one indigenous, native at all that's like saying that prickly pear is native to Australia, it's not it's introduced. or like saying a Kangaroo is native to USA because some may of been born their in the Zoo.

 

[Netchaplain]

How does one prove that they are a Jew ? Blood line ? or follower of the OT Religion ?

Ok lets say that one can prove a blood line going back to Jesus day or before that ? ok what % can you prove.

Now take the Australian Aboriginals, to be a Aboriginal you have to be pure 100% and once such a one is breed in with a outsider they are a half cast, so fact is this person is a nothing ! such a one can not claim to be one or the other in reality. because such is half one and half the other in fact.
So such a one would be a fool to claim anything other. that was the ruling when I was young and everyone knew it.

But come say 1990 our government and such came up peddling dribble, so that now we have morons claiming to be Aboriginals, even totally white blond blue eyed morons claiming to be Aboriginals and my sisters hubby who is a no hoper bludging numskull typical lefty tried to make a claim so he would be looked after like royalty sponging off the tax payers, if it was not for all the handouts they get given he would not of bothered to try scam such, not to mention all the other dogs that go for such a deal.

So what is the go with why one would claim to be a Jew ? or is just some jerk that claims ok I have just found out that I am 3% or 10 % or 30 %Semitic ? so therefor I am a Jew, totally worthy as a 100% Jew, just like the morons who claim to be Australian Aboriginals and then turn around an reject all the other race's that they are and then start lording it over the pure breed Aboriginals in claiming that they know better than they do. it's true this is what such bastards do. and it's just amazing to see such rubbish, not to mention some sports person the media claim the X is an Aboriginal and I am like what ! where you could of fooled me.
If it walks like a duck looks like a duck etc like a duck I will say that it's a Duck, but if it says it's a Duck and looks like a goose I would say that it's a Goose.

Now we have idiots claiming to be indigenous Australians because they are born here, no ! that does not make one indigenous, native at all that's like saying that prickly pear is native to Australia, it's not it's introduced. or like saying a Kangaroo is native to USA because some may of been born their in the Zoo.

Hi, thanks for the reply and I see your point. Not sure if this is an issue, and of course it's not determined by what one would claim, but I would think one's genealogy would need to be directly from Abraham's "seed."

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

If we look at that Jesus was predicted to come down a line, well then not all are the one ! and if we look at all the Prophets or God what do we see ? it's only one every now and then.

Then we can look at all the false prophets and why is this ? are they not seen as of the same people within the Jews.

So to idolise a people is insane, because they as a whole are no more better as to God than anyone other truly.

They say that the Satanist are and have always been truing to hunt down the bloodline to destroy it all through history but they can never pin point it, because they are to stupid to understand what is truly going on, that's clear to me to see.

The power of the Satanist killed the 6 million Jews because they feared they would have the power to expose them for just who they truly are, they seen this as a huge threat to be exposed. the same mob tried to kill baby Jesus as well for the same reason.

Satanist are in all religions working away to delude all, we seen this with the Jews, they crept in unaware to the majority, slithered in like a serpent and destroyed both the tribes Israel and Judah.
Holy Moses had to lead the people around in the desert for 40 years because of the pox or curse of Egypt on them that they suffered from, not to forget about them Serpents that stung them and why Moses did all that he did, held up something for them ? and destroyed the Golden Calf that the total morons made and not to mention God killed all them bastards that tried to kill Holy Moses. not to mention that they who tried to kill Holy Moses were in fact Jews remember that, not to mention that the 6 million Jews that were killed were killed by the powers of Satanic Jews as well, but they are that cunning that they hide their deeds well, because they are masters of such works. they are not only Jews but Christians that had a hand in all such things, within the RCC and all Protestant denominations are the same Satanist within playing their games.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Such people will always try to lead you astray from Jesus Christ and create a religion for you that just twist the truth enough for you to get off track.
I was talking to a Mayor candidate he claimed to be a Christian and not part of any political party and I said that I am of no Christian denomination, he said that you have to be on a team, much like football he said, I did not bother to reply, fact is I am not on any team, I am born again I have Jesus as my guide first and foremost in my life and not religion, the thing is I don't need religion, what are they going to teach me nothing, will they listen to me, no ! I am not seeking, as I am found.
I could go for Mayor as well but why would I bother, I know that it's a cesspit of grubs out for what they can get, all Political Party's are the same bunch of deranged derelict's swimming within the same sewer.

 

[Netchaplain]

Sorry for posting the wrong Scripture location, it's suppose to be Jer 31:31 concerning Israel's new covenant, not Eze.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The 'new' covenant (Jeremiah 31:31) is distinct from the old (first) covenant of Moses (Jeremiah 31:32 cf Hebrews 8:7). If the OT had been faultless, then no need for a new one. Under this new covenant there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. All privileges the Jews had under the old covenant therefore are gone.

Jer 31:32 conditions were attached under the OT covenant (Deuteronomy 28:15) and here in Jer 31:32 the Jews broke that OT covenant. The Jews rejected this new covenant that did bring salvation through Christ.

Jeremiah 31:34 this new covenant will be 'taught'. Under the old covenant, physical birth put the Jew in a covenant relationship with God then the Jew as he matured went about learning God's law. But under this new covenant one must be taught, must hear the word of God (Romans 10:17), a spiritual birth is required (John 3:5). Therefore no child is physically born a Christian, ie, born into a covenant relationship with God...physical birth ha nothing to do with the new covenant (Romans 9:8).

 

[Davy]

The 'new' covenant (Jeremiah 31:31) is distinct from the old (first) covenant of Moses (Jeremiah 31:32 cf Hebrews 8:7). If the OT had been faultless, then no need for a new one. Under this new covenant there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. All privileges the Jews had under the old covenant therefore are gone.

Jer 31:32 conditions were attached under the OT covenant (Deuteronomy 28:15) and here in Jer 31:32 the Jews broke that OT covenant. The Jews rejected this new covenant that did bring salvation through Christ.

Jeremiah 31:34 this new covenant will be 'taught'. Under the old covenant, physical birth put the Jew in a covenant relationship with God then the Jew as he matured went about learning God's law. But under this new covenant one must be taught, must hear the word of God (Romans 10:17), a spiritual birth is required (John 3:5). Therefore no child is physically born a Christian, ie, born into a covenant relationship with God...physical birth ha nothing to do with the new covenant (Romans 9:8).

It's true that God ended the old covenant, and that all must come to Him by faith on His Son Jesus Christ. But like Apostle Paul said in Romans 11, God has not cast away those whom He did foreknow.

Rom 11:1-5
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 'Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.'
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? 'I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.'
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Paul was definitely speaking of an election of grace according to the seed of Israel. God 'chose' those, didn't just call them to believe. He already owned those chosen of the seed of Israel. Our Lord Jesus explains this also in the John 17 Chapter within His prayer.

And those who have studied God's Word to become a workman well know that the Jews only represent a small amount of the total seed of the children of Israel. Same for today. The majority of the children of Israel were separated from the Jews of the southern kingdom after Solomon's days. And then God scattered that majority (ten tribes) out of the holy land and made them lose their identity as Israelites. We're talking about the majority of the children of Israel with that. In final, it will surprise many when they discover just where the majority of those lost ten tribes wound up, and how they have become probably the majority of believers in Christ's Church in the Christian west.

It was for this reason that Apostle Paul would quote from Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers on Christ, when the Hosea Scripture was specifically written to the ten tribes of Israel.

This means God's promises and covenants remain to the children of Israel, because they became the foundation of the Christian nations, and they with Gentile believers then took The Gospel to the rest of the nations, making up Christ's many-membered body, His Church.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It's true that God ended the old covenant, and that all must come to Him by faith on His Son Jesus Christ. But like Apostle Paul said in Romans 11, God has not cast away those whom He did foreknow.

Rom 11:1-5
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 'Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.'
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? 'I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.'
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Paul was definitely speaking of an election of grace according to the seed of Israel. God 'chose' those, didn't just call them to believe. He already owned those chosen of the seed of Israel. Our Lord Jesus explains this also in the John 17 Chapter within His prayer.

And those who have studied God's Word to become a workman well know that the Jews only represent a small amount of the total seed of the children of Israel. Same for today. The majority of the children of Israel were separated from the Jews of the southern kingdom after Solomon's days. And then God scattered that majority (ten tribes) out of the holy land and made them lose their identity as Israelites. We're talking about the majority of the children of Israel with that. In final, it will surprise many when they discover just where the majority of those lost ten tribes wound up, and how they have become probably the majority of believers in Christ's Church in the Christian west.

It was for this reason that Apostle Paul would quote from Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers on Christ, when the Hosea Scripture was specifically written to the ten tribes of Israel.

This means God's promises and covenants remain to the children of Israel, because they became the foundation of the Christian nations, and they with Gentile believers then took The Gospel to the rest of the nations, making up Christ's many-membered body, His Church.

The ones who God foreknew per Romans 11:2 refers to the group Christian for the context clearly shows that God did cast aside and broke off fleshly Israel. Paul was a fleshly Jew himself but not cast off. Why? He obeyed and became a Christian, those whom God foreknew (Romans 8:29). God FOREKNEW the group 'Christian' but God did NOT unconditionally predestinate certain individuals to be a Christian leaving rest to be lost. If the Jews had been predestined to be saved how could they ever be cast off, broken off? If the Gentiles had been predestined to be lost how could they be graffed in? Hence Romans 11:20-22 shows salvation has not been predestined but salvation can be lost by some (Jews) gained by others (Gentiles). ANYONE can be of God's foreknown people by being OBEDIENT to the gospel of Christ.

 

[Netchaplain]

I think before any more comments or opinions can be made I feel there are a couple issues needing addressed. First and foremost is the teaching of “The Covenant of Redemption,” because its doctrine is the basis of my understanding Israel’s eschatology, and is the Covenant presumed to be the present. “The covenant of redemption is the eternal agreement within the Godhead in which the Father appointed the Son to become incarnate, suffer, and die as a federal head of mankind to make an atonement for their sin. In return, the Father promised to raise Christ from the dead, glorify him, and give him a people.” (Wikipedia®)

If this doctrine is true (which is my belief for a while) then the new covenant (as mentioned earlier) of Israel shown in Jer 31:31 cannot be the proposed Covenant here mentioned in Christ’s Blood which presently and eternally exists in Christianity. The other difficulty (IMO) is that if “all Israel” and “the Israel of God” refer to all who are reborn in Christ among the Jews and Gentiles, there would need to be an explanation of the dominant usage of Jewish language presented with these terms in Scripture.

Myself, I’ve been researching the doctrine of Israel’s end times in God’s plans for a few decades now, and I’m more conclusive than not in believing that the Everlasting Covenant (Heb 13:20) is between God and His Son and not God and man. There is still much information to take in for me to be completely decided on this issue and in the meantime I will only be trying to reply to directly-related comments to these concepts; which again, have no reflection on the essential doctrines of salvation.

 

[Davy]

The ones who God foreknew per Romans 11:2 refers to the group Christian for the context clearly shows that God did cast aside and broke off fleshly Israel. Paul was a fleshly Jew himself but not cast off. Why? He obeyed and became a Christian, those whom God foreknew (Romans 8:29). God FOREKNEW the group 'Christian' but God did NOT unconditionally predestinate certain individuals to be a Christian leaving rest to be lost. If the Jews had been predestined to be saved how could they ever be cast off, broken off? If the Gentiles had been predestined to be lost how could they be graffed in? Hence Romans 11:20-22 shows salvation has not been predestined but salvation can be lost by some (Jews) gained by others (Gentiles). ANYONE can be of God's foreknown people by being OBEDIENT to the gospel of Christ.

The majority of fleshy Israel became... Christian. You cannot compare unbelieving Israel with those of the seed that have believed on Jesus, and I'm not talking about Jews, I'm talking about the majority of the scattered seed of the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) which were not known as Jews, and are still lost to the world and to the Jews, but not to God. This is why Apostle Paul quoted Hosea 1 to Roman Gentile believers. It's because when The Gospel went forth after the passion of Christ, it went to the ten lost tribes scattered among the Gentiles, and both would become Christ's Church. It literally fulfilled God's promise to Jacob that his seed would become "a company of nations", and to Ephraim that his seed would become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.35 & 48).