Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So the NT Christians say water was involved. The historical writings from the 1st century Christians, who walked and talked with the Apostles, say water was involved but you say water wasn't involved.

Now I am in a dilemma. Should I believe them

The <<NT Christians>> -- the apostles -- all alike emphatically DENY that water should be involved.
The New Testament contains ALL <historical writings> inspired and preserved by God the Holy Spirit or Jesus was a liar. And THE SCRIPTURES say Jesus' baptism "IS NOT WITH WATER" Period

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hello @Marymog,

No dilemma! Thank you for your further reply.

* Water baptism was used in conjunction with baptism by the Spirit during the Period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles, and recorded in the epistles of Paul written during that period:- i.e., 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans and Hebrews, and the other apostolic writings of the time. However in chapter 4, and verse 5 of the epistle to the Ephesians (written after that period), the Apostle Paul clearly says that only ONE Baptism should have part in the unity of the Spirit, which they were to keep.

* I cannot tell you why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism, but it could have something to do with the fact that many would not receive the word, given to Paul by revelation (see quote below) concerning the church which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23), for it was 'unsearchable' (Ephesians 3:8), therefore 'unverifiable' by recourse to the Old Testament Scriptures having been 'hid in God' since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9).

'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
(2 Timothy 1:13-15 - Paul's last letter before his death)

* John the Baptist himself told of a baptism other than water baptism, which the Lord would perform, which superseded his own:-

'I indeed have baptized you with water:
but He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.'
(Mark 1:8)

'For John truly baptized with water;
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.'
(Acts 1:5)

* Also baptism without water is the subject of such Scriptures as, 1 Corinthians 10:2, in which there is no water, for Moses and the children of Israel went over dry-shod, so it is not without precedent (Matthew 20:22-23) Here again baptism is spoken of in terms of identification.

* You must do what you must do, Marymog, :)

I leave you within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris

Good and like a real Christian should converse. Again.

You understand that I differ with you in that I believe the apostolic gift and sign of baptism given them by Jesus personally was the 'Jesus-baptism', per definition, "IN THE NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", and that it was for only THEM as sign and guarantee of apostleship. The water-baptism by John the baptist was pre-Christ. Water-baptism never <<in conjunction>> occurred done by an apostle. NEVER. The only instance of water-baptism was a malpractice which God seems to have allowed for a lesson for all Christian posterity, which was to give novices and the arrogant ignorant authority over the Church of Christ whom "God gave as Head to the Church".

 

[Marymog]

The <<NT Christians>> -- the apostles -- all alike emphatically DENY that water should be involved.
The New Testament contains ALL <historical writings> inspired and preserved by God the Holy Spirit or Jesus was a liar. And THE SCRIPTURES say Jesus' baptism "IS NOT WITH WATER" Period

You have an interesting theory since the eunuch insisted on being baptized in water. Jesus was baptized in water the only historical Christian writings from your the 1st century Christians emphatically say they baptized in "living water" sooooo I am not sure who tickled your ears and gave you the theory that they "emphatically DENY that water should be involved."

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Is it supposed to be more impressive , being in red font! LOL

I generally hi-lite Bible verses in red so they stand out from the rest of my post.

But the fact remains, whether in red blue or green, God does not hear sinners and there is no such thing as deathbed salvation in the NT gospel.

 

[Marymog]

Hello @Marymog,

No dilemma! Thank you for your further reply.


* I cannot tell you why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism, but it could have something to do with the fact that many would not receive the word, given to Paul by revelation (see quote below) concerning the church which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23), for it was 'unsearchable' (Ephesians 3:8), therefore 'unverifiable' by recourse to the Old Testament Scriptures having been 'hid in God' since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9).


* You must do what you must do, Marymog, :)

I leave you within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris

Very much a dilemma....either 2,000 years later you are right or the Christians who walked and talked with the Apostles are right....That is QUIT a dilemma.

I agree with you that you can not tell me "why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism". Because there is not logical answer. They used water because that is what Jesus and the Apostles taught. It's pretty simple IMO.

Than you for your time and reasonable response.

God bless....Mary

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I am not sure who tickled your ears and gave you the theory that they "emphatically DENY that water should be involved."

Read my posts before you try to look intelligent.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I agree with you that you can not tell me "why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism". Because there is not logical answer. They used water because that is what Jesus and the Apostles taught. It's pretty simple IMO.

It is a LIE <<Jesus and the Apostles taught>> to <use water>. But you're right, <there is no logical answer> where there is no logical question, Jesus taught the 11 apostles "baptise IN THE NAME"-- not in or with water. It's pretty simple.

 

[Marymog]

Read my posts before you try to look intelligent.

I have read your post....and they lack theology

 

[Marymog]

It is a LIE <<Jesus and the Apostles taught>> to <use water>. But you're right, <there is no logical answer> where there is no logical question, Jesus taught the 11 apostles "baptise IN THE NAME"-- not in or with water. It's pretty simple.

What's pretty simple is that Scripture and historical 1st century Christians writings make it very clear that water is necessary for baptism.

Your theory is the teaching of men from the 16th century.....congratulations!

 

[Helen]

Hello @Marymog,

No dilemma! Thank you for your further reply.

* Water baptism was used in conjunction with baptism by the Spirit during the Period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles, and recorded in the epistles of Paul written during that period:- i.e., 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans and Hebrews, and the other apostolic writings of the time. However in chapter 4, and verse 5 of the epistle to the Ephesians (written after that period), the Apostle Paul clearly says that only ONE Baptism should have part in the unity of the Spirit, which they were to keep.

* I cannot tell you why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism, but it could have something to do with the fact that many would not receive the word, given to Paul by revelation (see quote below) concerning the church which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23), for it was 'unsearchable' (Ephesians 3:8), therefore 'unverifiable' by recourse to the Old Testament Scriptures having been 'hid in God' since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9).

'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
(2 Timothy 1:13-15 - Paul's last letter before his death)

* John the Baptist himself told of a baptism other than water baptism, which the Lord would perform, which superseded his own:-

'I indeed have baptized you with water:
but He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.'
(Mark 1:8)

'For John truly baptized with water;
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.'
(Acts 1:5)

* Also baptism without water is the subject of such Scriptures as, 1 Corinthians 10:2, in which there is no water, for Moses and the children of Israel went over dry-shod, so it is not without precedent (Matthew 20:22-23) Here again baptism is spoken of in terms of identification.

* You must do what you must do, Marymog, :)

I leave you within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris

Excellent!!

 

[Helen]

I generally hi-lite Bible verses in red so they stand out from the rest of my post.

But the fact remains, whether in red blue or green, God does not hear sinners and there is no such thing as deathbed salvation in the NT gospel.

Again...say you!!

You must have led a very shallow life and for sure never been a chaplain in a hospital or...maybe you have never evangelized at all!!!

As for your line Quote :-
God does not hear sinners

How on earth did ANYONE become saved...EVERYONE was a sinner..of course God hears the cry of sinner, how else did YOU get saved!!

Brother , you do talk a load of old rubbish.

 

[Marymog]

Excellent!!
View attachment 8043

Excellent..... if you cut out parts of Scripture that speak of water baptism that don't agree with what you believe ;)

 

[Helen]

Excellent..... if you cut out parts of Scripture that speak of water baptism that don't agree with what you believe ;)

I don't say there was no such thing as water baptism.
I was water baptised myself.

I do NOT believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation....which is what the subject of this thread is all about.

 

[reformed1689]

I generally hi-lite Bible verses in red so they stand out from the rest of my post.

But the fact remains, whether in red blue or green, God does not hear sinners and there is no such thing as deathbed salvation in the NT gospel.

I know it wasn't a bed, but technically wasn't the thief on the cross on his deathbed?

 

[amadeus]

I generally hi-lite Bible verses in red so they stand out from the rest of my post.

But the fact remains, whether in red blue or green, God does not hear sinners and there is no such thing as deathbed salvation in the NT gospel.

You are citing the preaching former blind man rather than Jesus:

"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." John 9:31

As @Helen has already pointed out, God certainly does hear sinners since every man was certainly a sinner before he met the Master.

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 15:32

 

[jshiii]

In another thread, the subject of water baptism has intervened into the subject of the thread, and threatens to divert (The Hope Of The World). This subject can be a contentious one, but I hope it can be approached with love on all sides.

On the side of the necessity for water baptism for salvation, certain verses were quoted in that thread by a participant, which could provide a starting point.

John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21

Consider this Scenario. A young man, lead by his Pastor, has just announced, in front of the whole congregation his Belief and Faith in the the Son of The Living God, Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of his sins. As he walked up the steps to the baptismal, he slipped and bumped his head and died before he even touched the water. Is he saved or not?

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

 

[upwardmoving]

Hi Charity.

So the NT Christians say water was involved. The historical writings from the 1st century Christians, who walked and talked with the Apostles, say water was involved but you say water wasn't involved.

Now I am in a dilemma. Should I believe them our you?

Ephesians 5:26 :)

 

[historyb]

Only a Roman Catholic

Don't know I m not one, don't assume

 

[historyb]

Hello there, @historyb & @Marymog,

Baptism is of the spirit, and performed by the Holy Spirit, it is not an option that we can choose to 'do' or not to 'do'. It is a work of God in Christ Jesus, by which we are sealed. There is no water involved, be it complete immersion or sprinkling. Religious flesh glories in anything it can do, it panders to it's sense of self-righteousness: it is something that can be boasted of. Believer's baptism does not give the flesh anything to glory in: save in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ; Who is his Saviour and Lord, by which he is identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening and resurrection to life everlasting.

The believer's life is 'hid' with Christ in God, and when He (Christ) appears in glory, he will appear with Him there (Colossians 3:2).

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sorry that is very false.. Water Baptism is a grace from God that He does and it is required to be considered saves at St. Peter told the crowd when ask what they must do. The historic Church has believed that Water Baptism was required. Unfortunately people did not like things so made a man made idea of Christianity like no Baptism, or Baptism is not required, or Baptism is just spiritual, or the Communion elements are just symbolic all lies from Satan himself and many have followed. I can not judge others Salvation I can say Salvation is only if a person believes and gets Water Baptized.

 

[reformed1689]

Sorry that is very false.. Water Baptism is a grace from God that He does and it is required to be considered saves at St. Peter told the crowd when ask what they must do. The historic Church has believed that Water Baptism was required. Unfortunately people did not like things so made a man made idea of Christianity like no Baptism, or Baptism is not required, or Baptism is just spiritual, or the Communion elements are just symbolic all lies from Satan himself and many have followed. I can not judge others Salvation I can say Salvation is only if a person believes and gets Water Baptized.

Romans disagrees.