Was Noah “saved by grace through faith”?

[Helen]

 

[Grailhunter]

Thanks for your input. Very deep and studious response.

Where do you think that Noah, Abraham, and David went when they died?

 

[jshiii]

Where do you think that Noah, Abraham, and David went when they died?

Hades, but just remember there were 2 divided compartments of Hades, and a great expanse between the 2. Read the story about Lazarus and the Rich man, in Hades.

Luke 16:19–16:31


19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. 26Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.’ 27He said, ‘Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.’ 29Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’ 30He said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[CNKW3]

Overall, I do like the OP, but I do have some reserves and feedback.


I actually believe this is almost true, but it comes dangerously close to adding works to salvation. As I mentioned in another post, Noah already had Grace and by the faith he already had prepared the ark. Yes, we are to keep the faith and obey God when he blessed us with tasks due to that faith.

So I agree with that principle.

Yes. Noah was saved by grace through faith. God provided the grace. Noah was obedient to the directions given. If he had rejected the directions he would not have been saved. This is a perfect example to show that salvation does not happen before obedience.
The nation of Israel was given the city of Jericho by God in Joshua 6:2. This was by grace a gift from God. But did they control the city at that point? No! They still had to be obedient to the directions given them and they did not receive the gift given by God until AFTER they were obedient.

The problem is that there WAS something different. Noah at the time he was alive and the time he died (despite having Grace through faith) was not at the same level as anyone in Paul's time or our time. He might be now, but not then.

Read that carefully, and I apologize because I am sure there is a better way to word it. Noah had Grace, but not the fulfilling Grace Paul preached about and we now enjoy even more abundantly than even in Paul's day.

are you saying Noah is not in paradise? Isn’t that the goal? Heaven? How about David? He didn’t get to see the days of Christ but is he in paradise?

Today... I do believe we are on the same level, Noah included. I have many Bible verses that back that up, but I will get to the big verse:

You mentioned Hebrews 11. Great, but what is concluding in that chapter?

Hebrews 11:39-40 KJV
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: [40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Noah obtained a good report through faith, but he didn't receive the promise. Noah without "us" wasn't made perfect.

Now the "us" I believe in a spiritual sense is the last generation (which I believe we are), but literally, it's talking about the era of the apostles and the New Testament.

In essence, Noah was made perfect when Christ died and Paul revealed that gift. He was perfect for his time, as the Bible says, but not in 32-34 AD, 65 AD OR 2019 AD.

But in terms of the overall point of the OP, I like it. Grace through faith is an amazing gift. We must increase our faith daily and walk in it. Not by obeying the Law, like I believe many think we should. But by trusting God and understanding his plan.

I will ask again? Do you believe Noah to be in paradise? Do you believe all of those mentioned in Heb 11 are in paradise? If so, then what else matters? They were saved by grace through faith. Faith is just....doing what God says. And what God has required has changed through the years. Now, he says...if you want to be “in christ” then you must be baptized “into Christ”. He never told Noah that.

 

[CNKW3]

View attachment 7612

And that proves......what? Your God is bigger then my God?

 

[CNKW3]

Where do you think that Noah, Abraham, and David went when they died?

Paradise.

 

[CNKW3]

This is hilarious!

It shows that you have absolutely no idea of the grace of God, which is astounding, amazing, awesome, marvelous, stupendous, incomprehensible, incredible, unbelievable, inexhaustible, wonderful, and can only be grasped by those who have experienced it.

Is that it? I’m hilarious? The Bible tells us that the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN. But since ALL MEN are not saved, the Grace of God must not be as amazing as you think it is. If so? Then why aren’t all men saved?

 

[Waiting on him]

I will add that the salvation of Noah's house was not completed just when the boat was totally built, they had to also obediently board the boat. No salvation outside the boat.

When was it complete, when they exited the boat?

 

[Steve Owen]

So, he was saved from the flood the moment he plucked a twig? A plank does not a boat make.

Philippians 1:5. In fact, Noah was saved before he began to build the boat, and it was impossible that the boat would not be built, because God had decreed salvation for Noah before time began (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 1:3 etc.).

 

[Waiting on him]

Why do you guys keep doing this? There is no salvation in the Old Testament. It does not matter if you are Noah or Esau, everyone is gathered with their fathers in Sheol. God did not promise heaven as a reward in the Old Testament nor did He threaten people with hell in Old Testament. The only "saved" that Noah got from his faith, was that his family was saved.

Where is Sheol?

 

[Steve Owen]

Why do you guys keep doing this? There is no salvation in the Old Testament. It does not matter if you are Noah or Esau, everyone is gathered with their fathers in Sheol. God did not promise heaven as a reward in the Old Testament nor did He threaten people with hell in Old Testament. The only "saved" that Noah got from his faith, was that his family was saved.

Isaiah 25:6-9; Matthew 8:11.

 

[CNKW3]

Philippians 1:5. In fact, Noah was saved before he began to build the boat, and it was impossible that the boat would not be built, because God had decreed salvation for Noah before time began (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 1:3 etc.).

Those passages don’t even mention Noah. So how does that prove your false position?

 

[Grailhunter]

Paradise.

Christ goes through the trouble of explaining that Judaism is not part of Christianity.
He goes through the trouble to explain that mixing them or attaching them, will harm both. Christianity is not part of, or an extension of Judaism…You cannot drag Christian salvation back to the Old Covenant.

Matthew 9:16-17 But no one puts a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results. Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.”

Do you not understand this? Are you ignoring this? Do you think He is mistaken? Do you think you know better? Combining Judaism and Christianity is improper and will harm both of them. You might want to combining Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Voodoo....at least it would be entertaining!

People take the slightest things that Christ said and make a doctrine out of it. He goes through the trouble of explaining it and you can’t get it! Eyes and ears, but no get it!

How many ways did Paul explain that there was no salvation in the Old Covenant?

There is only one destination for any and all in the Old Testament and that is Shoal. Shoal is described as a region that is “dark and deep,” and “the Pit,” and where human beings descend after death to gather with their fathers. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Shoal, the deceased, although cut off from God and Mankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.

While this vision of Shoal is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. There is no hell in the Old Testament period or in the Hebrew Bible or religion. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Shoal, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man. And likewise heaven is not offered as a reward in the Old Covenant.

Shoal is found in the Hebrew Bible sixty-five times. It is mis-translated “the pit” three times, “the grave” thirty-one times, and “hell” thirty-one times by the KJV. Hades is used eleven times in some translations being rendered “hell” ten times and the “grave” once. The problem with this is that it is Pagan! Hades is a Greek word, a Greek mythological place, and a Greek god. So arguably they should have chosen another word.

 

[Stranger]

Good point. :)

I would say the moment he gathered the first tree and made the first plank.
2 Cor 8:12 "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

The moment Noah believed.


Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Yes, Noah was saved long before he began building the boat. I was being facetious.

It is interesting to me that because Noah believed and built the boat, he condemned the world. (Heb. 11:7) I believe that is a powerful statement. Much there that I would like to know.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

God commanded Noah to build a boat to certain specs and not until Noah completed the boat to those specs did he fulfill God's command. Leaving the boat partially built would have been disobedience to God's command and would not have saved him or his house from the flood. As CNKW3 noted, salvation requires one to believe, repent, confess, be baptized for remission of sins. Just 'belief only' is incomplete, belief is just part of what God has said therefore belief by itself will not save. All the belief only in the world will not save an impenitent person just as an incomplete boat would not save Noah and his house.

So Noah wasn't saved till after he built the boat?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You can answer that. Would he have survived the flood without building the boat?

Well, you need to distinguish. Are you talking about Noah being saved from the flood or saved eternally from sin? You spoke in the opening post as if you were talking about being saved from sin. Perhaps I misunderstood.

Stranger

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Isaiah 25:6-9; Matthew 8:11.

I would also use John 3 where Christ rebuked Nicodemus, though the teacher of Israel, who taught and knew the OT Scriptures, for not deducing from Scripture that one must be born again. Note John 3:10.

Some may need to spend more time in the Scriptures and less time meme making. Even a cursory read of Psalms shows salvation from sins, eternal life &c. :)

 

[Stranger]

View attachment 7612

Good reality.

True story. As a child, 4 or 5, our old refrigerator went out. It was very small. So, Daddy bought another one. Me and my sister were eatin supper at the table when he brought the new one in on a dolly. It was huge compared to the old one. I turned to my sister and said 'that thing is biggerun God'.

Of course I was chastised for saying such a thing. But it shows how a child is already trying to measure things to God. Trying to understand God.

Stranger

 

[FHII]

Yes. Noah was saved by grace through faith. God provided the grace. Noah was obedient to the directions given. If he had rejected the directions he would not have been saved. This is a perfect example to show that salvation does not happen before obedience.

Noah found Grace with God BEFORE he was given the order to build the ark. Check the scripture:. Gen 6:8 is where it says Noah found Grace. Verse 14 is where God started giving instructions.

Building the ark is not when Noah found Grace or had faith. He was given the command because he already had it.

are you saying Noah is not in paradise? Isn’t that the goal? Heaven? How about David? He didn’t get to see the days of Christ but is he in paradise?

No. That's not what I am saying at all. I gave you a warning to read carefully.

I will ask again?

Are you asking a question?

You really should read more carefully.

Do I believe the Patriarchs mentioned are in heaven? Absolutely. I never said anything to say they weren't. But when the died, they were not made perfect and they were not in "heaven". When Jesus died, they were freed. I have many verses to show that, but the best ones to show that are the concluding ones in Hebrews 11.

 

[CNKW3]

Christ goes through the trouble of explaining that Judaism is not part of Christianity.
He goes through the trouble to explain that mixing them or attaching them, will harm both. Christianity is not part of, or an extension of Judaism…You cannot drag Christian salvation back to the Old Covenant.

Who did that? Sure wasn’t me. Where did I ever say Noah was obedient to the gospel of Christ? Rom 15:4 tells us that what was written aforetime was written for our learning. These Old Testament stories are to be used for us to learn about God and what God expects of his creation. God has always commanded obedience to his word. From Adam until now. This has never changed.

Matthew 9:16-17 But no one puts a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results. Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.”

Do you not understand this? Are you ignoring this? Do you think He is mistaken? Do you think you know better? Combining Judaism and Christianity is improper and will harm both of them. You might want to combining Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Voodoo....at least it would be entertaining!

Noah wasnt under the law of moses. So how can I be combining Judaism and Christianity. You can’t take mt 9 out of context. He wasn’t talking about not using the Old Testament. Did Christ ever refer back to Old Testament accounts as examples? Of course he did.
Matthew 24:37-39 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
How dare Christ bring up Noah? Doesn’t he know that should just be left alone.

People take the slightest things that Christ said and make a doctrine out of it. He goes through the trouble of explaining it and you can’t get it! Eyes and ears, but no get it!

How many ways did Paul explain that there was no salvation it the Old Covenant?

Did I ever say....you should go build an ark? Then what are you talking about?

There is only one destination for any and all in the Old Testament and that is Shoal. Shoal is described as a region that is “dark and deep,” and “the Pit,” and where human beings descend after death to gather with their fathers. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Shoal, the deceased, although cut off from God and Mankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.

While this vision of Shoal is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. There is no hell in the Old Testament period or in the Hebrew Bible or religion. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Shoal, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man. And likewise heaven is not offered as a reward in the Old Covenant.

Shoal is found in the Hebrew Bible sixty-five times. It is mis-translated “the pit” three times, “the grave” thirty-one times, and “hell” thirty-one times by the KJV. Hades is used eleven times in some translations being rendered “hell” ten times and the “grave” once. The problem with this is that it is Pagan! Hades is a Greek word, a Greek mythological place, and a Greek god. So arguably they should have chosen another word.

im sorry but this is just pure nonsense.
Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
So what “heavenly country” did these Old Testament faithful desire? What “city” had God prepared for them?