What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Grailhunter]

I understand what you're saying, but considering that Mormons have done their share of killing and bullying, it's kind of a moot point.

When you say "Christ-centered dialogue," I kind of get the feeling that you mean consensus, meaning a general agreement. But for me to come to a general agreement with you about doctrine would mean that I have to give up biblical truth. IOW, I cannot agree with your Mormon beliefs based on Mormon scriptures other than the Bible without giving up my Bible-based beliefs.

What good would it do you if I gloss over unbiblical beliefs? It is the TRUTH that sets us free!
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Debating over the nature and substance of God....how long has that been going on?

The Mormons believe much of their religion has been based on revelation.

The Amish live in the 1800's because of the scriptures they have focused on.

Religions focus on Pentecost and the Holy Spirit.

Calvinism focuses on predestination...but then they take a turn to the evil and interpret God's scripture against Him and describe Him as a being that has taken over the will of Mankind and damn people to hell before they born.....And you are worried about the Mormons! How can you do this? It is one thing to have an imagination when you are speculating about God, but another when stand with the scriptures in hand and say..."See! He is a monster!" What is worse?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Debating over the nature and substance of God....how long has that been going on?

The Mormons believe much of their religion has been based on revelation.

The Amish live in the 1800's because of the scriptures they have focused on.

Religions focus on Pentecost and the Holy Spirit.

Calvinism focuses on predestination...but then they take a turn to the evil and interpret God's scripture against Him and describe Him as a being that has taken over the will of Mankind and damn people to hell before they born.....And you are worried about the Mormons! How can you do this? It is one thing to have an imagination when you are speculating about God, but another when stand with the scriptures in hand and say..."See! He is a monster!" What is worse?

If you read my comments, you would see that I am interested in truth. How many times have I quoted what Jesus said--that if we prove to be His disciples, we will know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH will set us free!!!

I asked you if you believe that objective (absolute) truth exists, and I think you said that you do. So, can you explain the words of Jesus based on what you said in your last comment? Just because man has a "revelation," is it automatically from God? God gave us His written word so that we can compare what we hear with His word like the Bereans did in order to discern truth from error.

This really is simple. The TRUTH is simple. Yes, man makes it complicated, but this doesn't negate the existence of objective truth. And it doesn't make the pursuit of truth less essential.

Edit: I have a question for you. Do you believe that LDS is a Christian denomination, similar to Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc.?
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[Grailhunter]

If you read my comments, you would see that I am interested in truth. How many times have I recognized what Jesus said that if we prove to be His disciples, we will know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH will set us free!!!

I asked you if you believe that objective (absolute) truth exists, and I think you said that you do. So, can you explain the words of Jesus based on what you said in your last comment? Just because man has a "revelation," is it automatically true? God gave us His written word so that we can compare what we hear with His word like the Bereans did in order to discern truth from error.

This really is simple. The TRUTH is simple. Yes, man makes it complicated, but this doesn't negate the existence of objective truth. And it doesn't make the pursuit of truth less essential.
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Harm and evil.....truth and character. As far as interpretation the cat is out of the bag and it has morphed into a can of worms that covers the world. Last count I checked, well over 30,000 denominations. The word truth has been so abused and convoluted that it is almost a bad word. If someone wants to lie to you it will be one of the first words they use.

Second paragraph....As it stands it would be a full time job to keep track of the varying interpretations of the Bible. Religious freedom is a right...so we can only go so far in deciding what is a cult and who is not Christian... Cult...that is another word that has lost its meaning. So I look for Harm and evil, and that is what I object to.

Third paragraph...If their religion makes coffee a taboo, I will chuckle at them. If a religion makes women subservient I will speak against it. But when a religion slanders God to edify themselves....I roar. Calvinism is only second to the Jehovah's Witnesses in denying the deity of Christ, Calvin describes the deity of God as a monster. Why do you put up with it?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Harm and evil.....truth and character. As far as interpretation the cat is out of the bag and it has morphed into a can of worms that covers the world. Last count I checked, well over 30,000 denominations. The word truth has been so abused and convoluted that it is almost a bad word. If someone wants to lie to you it will be one of the first words they use.

Second paragraph....As it stands it would be a full time job to keep track of the varying interpretations of the Bible. Religious freedom is a right...so we can only go so far in deciding what is a cult and who is not Christian... Cult...that is another word that has lost its meaning. So I look for Harm and evil, and that is what I object to.

Third paragraph...If their religion makes coffee a taboo, I will chuckle at them. If a religion makes women subservient I will speak against it. But when a religion slanders God to edify themselves....I roar. Calvinism is only second to the Jehovah's Witnesses in denying the deity of Christ, Calvin describes the deity of God as a monster. Why do you put up with it?

I edited my last comment and added a question for you. Do you believe LDS is a Christian denomination, like Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc.?

 

[Grailhunter]

I edited my last comment and added a question for you. Do you believe LDS is a Christian denomination, like Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc.?

Not being coy....but does the term protest churches still correctly apply to any denomination? 30,000 churches that lift up their voices to Christ....yes I call them Christians....even Calvinists who are nearly an enemy of God.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Not being coy....but does the term protest churches still correctly apply to any denomination? 30,000 churches that lift up their voices to Christ....yes I call them Christians....even Calvinists who are nearly an enemy of God.

You didn't answer my question. Do you consider LDS a Christian denomination, like the other denominations I listed?

 

[Grailhunter]

You didn't answer my question. Do you consider LDS a Christian denomination, like the other denominations I listed?

I did answer...yes I call them Christians....I can separate them in that they never fell into category of protest church.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

even Calvinists who are nearly an enemy of God.

Lol, Calvinists are in the camp of biblical Christianity, meaning their doctrine is at least based on the Bible. All denominational doctrine is skewed, but Mormon doctrine is UNBIBLICAL. And that is the point of this thread.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I did answer...yes I call them Christians....I can separate them in that they never fell into category of protest church.

So, you believe that LDS is a Christian denomination?

 

[Grailhunter]

So, you believe that LDS is a Christian denomination?

Of course.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Of course.

Thank you for the simple answer to my simple question. What do you base your opinion on? IOW, what basis do you use to determine whether a group should be considered a Christian denomination?

 

[Grailhunter]

Lol, Calvinists are much closer to biblical Christianity than Mormons. Their doctrine is at least based on the Bible. All denominational doctrine is skewed, but Mormon doctrine is UNBIBLICAL. And that is the point of this thread.

We have talked about this before....2000 years of divine activity.....unless God conforms or stays in the parameters of what people understand, that biblical, it is going to be different. If we were sitting with Paul, we would be conversing about all of the 30,000 denominations. But to think no new concept would be reveled over the 2000 years is wrong thinking. No one gagged God or tied Him up in a room.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

We have talked about this before....2000 years of divine activity.....unless God conforms or stays in the parameters of what people understand, that biblical, it is going to be different. If we were sitting with Paul, we would be conversing about all of the 30,000 denominations. But to think no new concept would be reveled over the 2000 years is wrong thinking. No one gagged God or tied Him up in a room.

Yes, we have talked about this before......... And you're still saying that understanding God's truth is impossible based on the existence of 10 million denominations, uh, I mean 30,000.

 

[Grailhunter]

Thank you for the simple answer to my simple question. What do you base your opinion on? IOW, what basis do you use to determine whether a group should be considered a Christian denomination?

As I have said...simply....30,000 churches that lift up their voices to Christ....I call them Christian. I take exception to harm and evil.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

No one gagged God or tied Him up in a room.

This is a straw man. I never said that anyone gagged God. We've talked about this before too.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

As I have said...simply....30,000 churches that lift up their voices to Christ....I call them Christian. I take exception to harm and evil.

And you have your own definition or "harm" and "evil" that doesn't match God's, IMHO.

 

[Giuliano]

So, this Mormon belief is completely unbiblical: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22)

I have always wondered -- really -- why Joseph Smith didn't realize he was being deceived when the two figures appeared to him and one was said to be God the Father. Didn't he know that no man has seen God at any time? It seems to me people should know that God doesn't have a body of flesh even without the Bible saying so.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I have always wondered -- really -- why Joseph Smith didn't realize he was being deceived when the two figures appeared to him and one was said to be God the Father. Didn't he know that no man has seen God at any time? It seems to me people should know that God doesn't have a body of flesh even without the Bible saying so.

Thank you, Giuliano, that's a good point.

 

[brakelite]

I think if we declined to correct one error on the basis that there are worse errors, we would make no progress toward truth whatsover.
The thing is, each error it seems has a dedicated thread. This thread is about the errors of the LDS. There are other threads dedicated to Calvin. Correction. There are gazillions of other threads dedicated to Calvin.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, we have talked about this before......... And you're still saying that understanding God's truth is impossible based on the existence of 10 million denominations, uh, I mean 30,000.

Understanding God's truth....as in, my religion is the only correct religion? And your religion is wrong because it is different? Very few take the Bible back to the language level and very few know the cultural context, so very few could get close to the truth. Still the Bible provides various concepts that can be legitimately interpreted different ways.....ie all the denominations. The basics are what is important....3X5 card....and do not slander God or deny the deity of Christ.