The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[Phoneman777]

Phoneman777 ~

I believe when the Vatican City was established as a Recognized Independent Country/State In 1929, that Affairs of their State Citizens and elected and Appointed "Officials", as are "the pope, bishops, cardinals, priests, etc.," that such "AFFAIRS", of "wrong doing", by an "Official", were established to be "Handled" "INTERNALLY".

Really not too much different than ANY government who has "internal Affairs" that they "handle" "INTERNALLY.

It is my understanding that "Catholics", (members of the Catholic Church, BUT NOT, Appointed Officials, are taught to "Take their grievances ABOUT an "OFFICIAL" TO an "OFFICIAL" of the Catholic Church.

It has been moreso coming to Light, that Catholic Church members are coming forward, being publically outspoken, about their "DISAPPOINTMENT" in "HOW" the Catholic OFFICIALS have handled their "CASES" brought before the Catholic Officials.

It is a matter of Catholic members being taught to take their grievances TO a Catholic OFFICIAL...even though the majority of Catholic Members are under the Jurisdiction of individual Country/State Laws, to take their grievances to their own State/Country's government Jurisdictional Courts.

The IDEA for a Catholic member to TAKE their case (AS a citizen of their own State/Country}....TO their own countries government....poses Problems...
1) Backlash of the Catholic Church Officials.
2) "international Affairs" between two Separate Jurisdictional Governments"

A condunrum of sorts, for a Catholic who wanted to Remain in good standing with the Catholic Church, but found no relief for a wrong doing by a catholic Official.

More modern times have reveals more Catholics are willing to jeopardize their standing with the catholic Church, quit the catholic Church, Be Excommunicated from the Catholic Church...and openly Expose wrong doing of particular Catholic Officials.

Hard and Fast Staunch Catholics who themselves have NOT experienced a wrong doing leveled at them personally, by a catholic Church Official, are quick to turn the Table from the Issue of Catholic Officials to Protestant Officials.

That is called DIVERSION, to Avoid Accountability.
And that, is primarily how a conversation goes, when ANYTHING negative is a Point of Discussion about Catholicism, when a Stauch
Catholic is introduced into the discussion.

Glory to God,
Taken

I would add that while no secular court has any business legislating anything that has to do with the first four commandments, they have every right to legislate regarding the last six. Child rape by clergy falls under the last six commandments and no church has the authority to shield itself from due process of law enforcement, which is what the papacy did and is doing globally on a pandemic scale. It's got to stop. Start lining up these convicted child rapists and EXECUTE them with extreme prejudice. Only then will they place their selfish desire for self preservation above their twisted sexual lusts for innocent, vulnerable children.

The "minister of justice" has borne the sword in vain for too long.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, this is what is known as a "settlement", Einstein.
They are ALL transparent and legitimate. None of this was done in "secret".

Yes, Dead Bread, the papacy didn't cover anything up - it was right there out in the open, and we're all over here just pretending to be shocked, right? Get help, man, whatever that priest did isn't your fault.

 

[Phoneman777]

I like the first option.

It is a rare thing for the papacy to speak truth, but they are spot on accurate in this. Nothing in Scripture authorizing any change in God's Ten Commandments.

I got a coworker who says, "Jesus is my rest, I don't need to keep the seventh day Sabbath". I said to him, "Jesus is my truth, I don't need to keep the ninth commandment, and Jesus is my reward, I don't need to keep the eighth commandment."

He didn't like my the point I was making...that keeping the spirit of the law doesn't mean we can disregard the letter of the law - and that the letter of the law is a killer only when it is unaccompanied by the spirit of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, Dead Bread, the papacy didn't cover anything up - it was right there out in the open, and we're all over here just pretending to be shocked, right? Get help, man, whatever that priest did isn't your fault.

Never said it was my fault - any more than the sins of the pedophile clergy in your SDA cult are YOUR fault.
I don't take responsibility for anybody's sins but my own . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

Never said it was my fault - any more than the sins of the pedophile clergy in your SDA cult are YOUR fault.
I don't take responsibility for anybody's sins but my own . . .

Then stop defending them. They are ministers of Satan who cannot see their own vile, twisted desires are destroying the lives of innocent children and your failure to condemn the system that protects them is what enables them.

 

[Taken]

No, my point is that Saturday is the LAST day of the week, the seventh day,

Okay, thank you for your clarification.

which God set aside for us to rest and worship Him, fellowship with the brethren, go on God's errands like Meals on Wheels, visiting the nursing homes, etc. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are decreed W-O-R-K days, per the Fourth Commandment, right?

I delineate a difference between;
Work, Rest, Worshiping the Lord and Praising the Lord.

Worshiping the Lord, I would agree, was taught in the OT, as the Seventh Day being exclusively set aside for Worshiping the Lord.

And that SAME Seventh Day, was taught Work was to be set aside, and that be a Day of Rest.

And I just LOVE IT when people get all sanctimonious and pious and devout and say, "...**ahem**....I worship God every day..."

Really?

I would say, the Majority of people, are not Today, Following OT Laws or Tradition.

How many of us slave all day at the office, the field, or where ever, putting up with the boss' aggravation, coworker aggravation, customer aggravation, etc., and then after a long day have time to do anything but rush home and tackle domestic affairs before getting the family ready to call it a day and preparing to do it all over again the next day? How many of us? The answer is none of us. God knew it.

THAT'S WHY HE GAVE US THE SABBATH. The day HE designated, the seventh day, for coming apart from all that mumbo jumbo and resting from it all as we rest in Jesus, remembering how it was in the Garden before this awful mess we got ourselves into and being reminded that one day not far off, we'll be done with all the trials, heartache, toil, etc., that we must endure while we are yet awaiting His return.

And after God Who is the only One Who can make anything holy and declared the seventh day holy, no sinful man can come along and make another day holy...ESPECIALLY one that God already designated a W-O-R-K day, right or wrong?

I believe JESUS, gave some insight to what seemed a dilemma, for Jews Following the OT, according to Their Understanding, and WORKING on the Sabbath.

In brief, I would say, to my understanding...

The Last Day of the Week was purposed for;
Rest from Doing GODS WORK....but yet there IS WORK for men to do, ON the Seventh Day.
(responsibility for Tending TO; that which they are Responsible FOR).

Corral an animal, which then can not forge for its food, a man must then feed the animal.
Have children who may get hungry, hurt, be sick on the Sabbath, then Tend to the child, etc.


The Last Day of the Week was purposed for:
Instead of DOING Gods Work, Rest from Gods work, and Rather Glorify God In Worshiping Him and Praising Him.

We know, Some but not ALL men WORK during the Week.
We know, of the men who DO work during the Week, are NOT DOING WORK that glorifies God.
We know, some men WORK nights, not days, and Week-ends, not Week-days....and their WORK may or may not be glorifying to God.

We know Jesus, WORKED on the Sabbath, doing a WORK, that glorified God.

We also know, God Does NOT TIRE...but men DO.

We know men were not born with flip a switch electricity...and for centuries, were awake during the Day, and Slept during the Darkness.

What became men Working, day or night, weekday or weekend...was not News to God that would come about.

I believe ANY Day, or ANY Night, ANY Place,
a man Works to Glorify God, Praises the Lord, Worships the Lord...is a THING, the Lord Blesses, regardless of the particular Time, or Day.

And ALL "WORKS", (by a Believer), that Glorifies God, shall be rewarded.

And ALL "WORKS", (by an unbeliever, and even a believers), that do not Glorify God, shall be burned.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then stop defending them. They are ministers of Satan who cannot see their own vile, twisted desires are destroying the lives of innocent children and your failure to condemn the system that protects them is what enables them.

And what is "enabling" the perverts over at your SDA cult, hmmmmm??

Your hypocrisy is astounding . . .

 

[brakelite]

The funny things is that YOU don't even understand what a "heretic" is.
MOST of the anti-Catholic posters on this form don't.

As for "pedophiles" in the ranks - you REALLY should do your homework, Einstein.
the problem is out of control on your own cult . . .
Finding Justice for Victims of Sexual Abuse in the Seventh-day ...
Like other religious organizations and institutions of trust, the Seventh-day Adventist Church has a long and disappointing history of child sex abuse. In the United States, hundreds or more SDA children have been abused in SDA churches, schools, camps, and programs for teens and children, like Adventurers.

So far, there has been no public disclosure of the number of children molested in the DA Church, unlike the recentPennsylvania grand jury report involving the Catholic Church or the public release of the Boy Scouts “Ineligible Volunteer Files” on accused child molesters. From our own work representing SDA clients, we know that Adventist Risk Management, the official insurance company for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, has handled claims of over 500 child sex abuse victims in the US.

From an advertisement for a law firm drumming up business. And you demand original documents from everyone else? Are you kidding me???

 

[BreadOfLife]

From an advertisement for a law firm drumming up business. And you demand original documents from everyone else? Are you kidding me???

And YOUR position is that they're LYING about the molestation cases within the SDA ranks??
Talk about desperation . . .

Phoneyman made a claim that the Catholic Church ordered the selling of Indulgences - so official documents are necessary to prove this nonsense.

 

[brakelite]

And YOUR position is that they're LYING about the molestation cases within the SDA ranks??
Talk about desperation . . .

I haven't denied anything. Just pointing out your astounding hypocricy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I would add that while no secular court has any business legislating anything that has to do with the first four commandments, they have every right to legislate regarding the last six. Child rape by clergy falls under the last six commandments and no church has the authority to shield itself from due process of law enforcement, which is what the papacy did and is doing globally on a pandemic scale. It's got to stop. Start lining up these convicted child rapists and EXECUTE them with extreme prejudice. Only then will they place their selfish desire for self preservation above their twisted sexual lusts for innocent, vulnerable children.

The "minister of justice" has borne the sword in vain for too long.

Should we start with SDA rapists or should we start with the Evangelicals? How about the Baptists? How about the "non-denominationals"??

Who should they execute first??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I haven't denied anything. Just pointing out your astounding hypocricy.

It's not "hypocrisy" at ALL to hold a mirror up to hypocritical accusers.
Clean up the mess in YOUR cult before judging anybody for the same crimes.

 

[aspen]

Sometimes I think Adventists would not even exist if it weren’t for the Catholic Church - who would they use as a scapegoat? Who would they set up as the Beast Power? Hell, who would they talk about 24 hours a day? The Adventist Church is a reactionary church - their doctrine is a reaction against Catholicism. I’ve read some of e.g. whites massive writings and guess what? Most of what I read was bashing the Catholic Church.

How sad and not to mention, boring.
Definitely putting that head injury on display for the world
And finally, you’re welcome!

 

[quietthinker]

Another Op-Ed piece which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject (we were discussing, which is the Sabbath.

Anyway - all this Op-Ed piece shows is an abuse of power by some - but NOT official doctrine.
I can just as easily cherry-pick through the many sins of the leadership of just about ANY Protestant denomination - so try to stay on-point.

Wrong is wrong. It doesn't become right by pointing out the flaws of an opposing side. You are hoping to take the heat off by doing just that yet in doing so you reinforce your MO of denial which it seems you are oblivious to. Others however see it as self evident.

 

[brakelite]

Sometimes I think Adventists would not even exist if it weren’t for the Catholic Church - who would they use as a scapegoat? Who would they set up as the Beast Power? Hell, who would they talk about 24 hours a day? The Adventist Church is a reactionary church - their doctrine is a reaction against Catholicism. I’ve read some of e.g. whites massive writings and guess what? Most of what I read was bashing the Catholic Church.

How sad and not to mention, boring.
Definitely putting that head injury on display for the world
And finally, you’re welcome!

Interesting observation. So the Catholic church for 1500 years bashed anybody and everybody who disagreed with her doctrinally, politically, and socially, and when a church identifies her as the beast because her practices confirm that ID, such ID becomes boring and sad? Even though the Catholic church's own testimony is that she is infallible, and therefore cannot change her spots, we must believe that she has changed and no longer desires to be the only kid on the block and her bullying days are over? Despite papal pronouncements that are self promoting electioneering manifestos to King of the world? So opposing and warning the world of the dangers inherent in that mindset that is ingrained in the Vatican curia, is boring and sad.
The very fact that there are people like you totally oblivious of history and the goals of the Vatican toward papal supremacy accentuates our ongoing need to cry aloud and spare not.

 

[aspen]

Interesting observation. So the Catholic church for 1500 years bashed anybody and everybody who disagreed with her doctrinally, politically, and socially, and when a church identifies her as the beast because her practices confirm that ID, such ID becomes boring and sad? Even though the Catholic church's own testimony is that she is infallible, and therefore cannot change her spots, we must believe that she has changed and no longer desires to be the only kid on the block and her bullying days are over? Despite papal pronouncements that are self promoting electioneering manifestos to King of the world? So opposing and warning the world of the dangers inherent in that mindset that is ingrained in the Vatican curia, is boring and sad.
The very fact that there are people like you totally oblivious of history and the goals of the Vatican toward papal supremacy accentuates our ongoing need to cry aloud and spare not.

I taught Church history at the college level.

 

[Taken]

Sometimes I think Adventists would not even exist if it weren’t for the Catholic Church - who would they use as a scapegoat? Who would they set up as the Beast Power? Hell, who would they talk about 24 hours a day? The Adventist Church is a reactionary church - their doctrine is a reaction against Catholicism. I’ve read some of e.g. whites massive writings and guess what? Most of what I read was bashing the Catholic Church.

What is your point?

Catholics and Adventists do not agree in the imminent second coming of Christ?

Ad·vent·ist

1. a member of any of various Christian sects emphasizing belief in the imminent second coming of Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[quietthinker]

Sometimes I think Adventists would not even exist if it weren’t for the Catholic Church - who would they use as a scapegoat? Who would they set up as the Beast Power? Hell, who would they talk about 24 hours a day? The Adventist Church is a reactionary church - their doctrine is a reaction against Catholicism. I’ve read some of e.g. whites massive writings and guess what? Most of what I read was bashing the Catholic Church.

How sad and not to mention, boring.
Definitely putting that head injury on display for the world
And finally, you’re welcome!

When a pedophile justifies his/her course of action, when that course of action hamstrings its victims, when this goes on for centuries, is it out of order to ring alarm bells loud and clear again and again? I would think not.
If most don't hear does not mean that some won't hear neither is it a reason to stop the warning.

When sickness is entrenched in the system it is the obligation of the healthy to counter.
Will 'boring' or other put down accusations make them so....I think not. And is it really thought that scapegoating is done for the sake of scapegoating when guilt has near reached a full cup??

 

[Taken]

I would add that while no secular court has any business legislating anything that has to do with the first four commandments, they have every right to legislate regarding the last six.

However secular courts DO lawfully have authority, by man's Law enacted By the Congressional legislature, regarding Religions.

In the US, it is lawful, Because of The First 10 Amendments to the US Constitution, specifically the First Amendment.

Child rape by clergy falls under the last six commandments and no church has the authority to shield itself from due process of law enforcement, which is what the papacy did and is doing globally on a pandemic scale.

Again it has to do with Governmental Jurisdiction.

And it has to do with a person willing to File a Charge.

And it has to do with the person filing Having Evidence.

Many cases Against the Catholic Church are Filed Years After the incident occurred, beyond the statue of limitations to prosecute.

Justice is not always pursued.
And even when pursued, Justice is not always the Result.

Only Gods Justice is Perfect.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Never said it was my fault - any more than the sins of the pedophile clergy in your SDA cult are YOUR fault.
I don't take responsibility for anybody's sins but my own . . .

Seems along with you not taking responsibility for Catholic Priests ;
You also do not take responsibility for your membership in your Catholic Cult, Or your Anti-Protestantism.

And BTW, how many Sins per Day would you say you average?

Glory to God,
Taken