The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Phoneman777]

I don't know about you Phoneman, but it seems that those who believe this doctrine are almost happy that most will burn in Hell. And think that God is not powerful enough to show His Glory without arbitrarily creating, intentionally, specific people for Hell...no choice, no chance.
It is a bit disturbing though, to detect a certain glee because of folks being sent to hell. Cold, hopeless, dark doctrine IMHO.

Amen, Nancy. Luciferians despise the non-initiates as unworthy, undeserving, stupid, crude and filthy. In fact, they consider imparting their "illuminated truths", so generously bestowed upon them by their loving Lucifer, to those which Lucifer has not chosen as akin to "putting the proverbial sword in the hands of a child" - those which would misuse his "secret knowledge" for selfish or nefarious reasons.

Any Calvinist who denies they indulge these same feelings of contempt for those who are not part of the club is just lying, plain and simple. The Calvinist can do no other, sense he believes God has ordained them to remain uninitiated.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you are born-again, you are "the specially chosen".

It's too bad the rest of all humanity refuses to respond to the call, that they would be among them, as well.

 

[Nancy]

Amen, Nancy. Luciferians despise the non-initiates as unworthy, undeserving, stupid, crude and filthy. In fact, they consider imparting their "illuminated truths", so generously bestowed upon them by their loving Lucifer, to those which Lucifer has not chosen as akin to "putting the proverbial sword in the hands of a child" - those which would misuse his "secret knowledge" for selfish or nefarious reasons.

Any Calvinist who denies they indulge these same feelings of contempt for those who are not part of the club is just lying, plain and simple. The Calvinist can do no other, sense he believes God has ordained them to remain uninitiated.[/QUOTE

"Luciferians despise the non-initiates as unworthy, undeserving, stupid, crude and filthy."
And, without even knowing me...this is what I experienced with Calvinists to a T.
They like to say that we use God's grace as license to sin. Seems they use it as license to be cruel!

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy,

Useful for anyone interested in facts!

But . . . well . . . you know!

Yeah, can't let the facts get in the way now

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Another straw man. Carefully worded misrepresenting the opposing view. Why the need for misrepresentation, I wonder?

Not even close. You've not been misrepresented. Now, instead of making a claim to have been go fetch actual proof that your beliefs were misrepresented. So far all you've done is make a false assertion, but you've offered zero proof.

Now let's get to the facts. You've shown over and again, as well as @Nancy , @CoreIssue , @justbyfaith, @Enoch111 and many more that God saved you because of what you all did in your free will ability which is unbiblical.

Each of you get utterly offended when we show salvation is all of God and none of you, and you all come back with out of context scripture and personal opinion in order to go against the Soli Deo Gloria shown you.

Yours is a denial and disdain of the clear teaching of 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, a scripture you've shown that you don't accept or understand, 1 Corinthians 2:14.

We've been down this road, you have no biblical grounds for your gospel of meritorious salvation that God chose you because you did something. You do not preach nor do you understand the Gospel.

But go ahead, tell us more about you and how you did it, and that God chose you because you loved him while lost and dead in sin.

 

[marks]

Not even close. You've not been misrepresented. Now, instead of making a claim to have been go fetch actual proof that your beliefs were misrepresented

Your "Straw Man" is in charaterizing those who believe that God doesn't just make some for heaven and some for hell as taking an oppositional stance against God, "But me!"

That is your wording, but not my stance.

So when you argue against that, you are arguing against you, not me, and that is a Straw Man.

The opposition is to your view, not against God.

Perhaps a real discussion could be had if you would drop all this nonesense of berating and mischaracterizing the views of those who disagree with you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Any Calvinist who denies they indulge these same feelings of contempt for those who are not part of the club is just lying, plain and simple. The Calvinist can do no other, since he believes God has ordained them to remain uninitiated.

You know, Phoneman, I hate to think that is true. But from what I see, it's tough to dispute.

Heavy sigh!

 

[marks]

Each of you get utterly offended when we show salvation is all of God and none of you

What actually offends me - and this would be another place where you put words in my mouth - What offends me is when

you make God the Author of Sin. God chooses everything?

When you make God a liar. God says all, but never meant it?

When you take Holy Writ and re-write it to suit you. Foreknown actually means forechosen?

When you claim God wants to torture His creation eternally - just because.

These are some things that offend me.

I'm not offended because you think you prove that I'm wrong. That's nothing. I don't have a problem being wrong. In fact, I'm the first one who wants to know if I am.

I'm not offended as if I thought I claim credit for my salvation and you are taking that away, what an absurdity!

Well, enough said.

Much love!

And I do, in fact, want the very best for you. And if there is something, anything, that I can do to help you come to experience the love and grace of God in a greater way, I will surely do it!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Your "Straw Man" is in charaterizing those who believe that God doesn't just make some for heaven and some for hell as taking an oppositional stance against God, "But me!"

That is your wording, but not my stance.

So when you argue against that, you are arguing against you, not me, and that is a Straw Man.

The opposition is to your view, not against God.

Perhaps a real discussion could be had if you would drop all this nonesense of berating and mischaracterizing the views of those who disagree with you.

Much love!

I do agree that it's oath the time to actually understand another person's stance/beliefs, before trying to critque it-- lest we all end wasting time attacking positions no one actually holds!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Now let's get to the facts. You've shown over and again, as well as @Nancy , @CoreIssue , @justbyfaith, @Enoch111 and many more that God saved you because of what you all did in your free will ability which is unbiblical.

I don't think that's anyone's beliefs here.

I just accepted God's gift of faith & salvation. I didn't in any way 'earn' them nor were they given because of anything I did.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not even close. You've not been misrepresented. Now, instead of making a claim to have been go fetch actual proof that your beliefs were misrepresented. So far all you've done is make a false assertion, but you've offered zero proof.

Now let's get to the facts. You've shown over and again, as well as @Nancy , @CoreIssue , @justbyfaith, @Enoch111 and many more that God saved you because of what you all did in your free will ability which is unbiblical.

Each of you get utterly offended when we show salvation is all of God and none of you, and you all come back with out of context scripture and personal opinion in order to go against the Soli Deo Gloria shown you.

Yours is a denial and disdain of the clear teaching of 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, a scripture you've shown that you don't accept or understand, 1 Corinthians 2:14.

We've been down this road, you have no biblical grounds for your gospel of meritorious salvation that God chose you because you did something. You do not preach nor do you understand the Gospel.

But go ahead, tell us more about you and how you did it, and that God chose you because you loved him while lost and dead in sin.

What we are contending for, for the sake of those who have not yet made a decision for Christ, is the responsibility of man to receive Him; as well as the promise of the Lord to not cast away any and all who will come to Him.

That we do something to obtain salvation is clear in the following verse:

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Does the context show otherwise and nullify the verse in question? If so, how?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Do you know this to be true?

Much love!

I know what I am reading and seeing. She can correct me if she wants to. She can call and make her case, but I know what is coming from the keyboard. She is not alone in this...many do this.

 

[Laish]

And still y’all haven’t answered why they believed after hearing the gospel and others didn’t .
Nor if Christ died for the sins of the whole world why is it that at least 40% live in a place where they will never hear ?
Blessings
Bill

 

[Laish]

Give people an opportunity to see their sin, their need for a Savior, and the choice to make Him Savior and King. Unless God arrests the sinner's attention, they will never know the bondage in whcih they are trapped.

Over 40% will never live in a location to hear or have the opportunity.
Of those that do live in a place where the word is spread roughly 60 % of them will hear it so not every one has a opportunity.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Laish]

I don't know about you Phoneman, but it seems that those who believe this doctrine are almost happy that most will burn in Hell. And think that God is not powerful enough to show His Glory without arbitrarily creating, intentionally, specific people for Hell...no choice, no chance.
It is a bit disturbing though, to detect a certain glee because of folks being sent to hell. Cold, hopeless, dark doctrine IMHO.

Ok what’s in bold Who ?
Put up ! Who is it or are they . I am tired of the passive aggressive remarks . Throw your cards on the table .

Bill

 

[Enoch111]

And still y’all haven’t answered why they believed after hearing the gospel and others didn’t .

Asked and answered a long time ago.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21)

Nor if Christ died for the sins of the whole world why is it that at least 40% live in a place where they will never hear ?

That is a question which should be addressed to God. As a matter of fact, almost everyone has heard about Christ and Christianity over the last 2000 years.

 

[Laish]

Asked and answered a long time ago.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21)

That is a question which should be addressed to God. As a matter of fact, almost everyone has heard about Christ and Christianity over the last 2000 years.

Sir your incorrect. That’s my calling I work to evangelize the lost . I work with locals here in Arizona drunks, addicts and atheist. Still I have friends on mission trips and talk with them .I read and check with many Christian evangelical outreach groups their data is nondenominational. Just for instance a area called the 10 40 window is nearly untouched it cross countries oceans and islands where folks have not even heard the name Jesus . Or if they have it’s the Jesus in the Koran.

Blessings
Bill

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sir your incorrect. That’s my calling I work to evangelize the lost . I work with locals here in Arizona drunks, addicts and atheist. Still I have friends on mission trips and talk with them .I read and check with many Christian evangelical outreach groups their data is nondenominational. Just for instance a area called the 10 40 window is nearly untouched it cross countries oceans and islands where folks have not even heard the name Jesus . Or if they have it’s the Jesus in the Koran.

Laish, the question of "what happens to people who have not heard of Christ in this life?" is one separate from the Calvinistic/non question.

 

[Laish]

Laish, the question of "what happens to people who have not heard of Christ in this life?" is one separate from the Calvinistic/non question.

Not following you ?
Blessings
Bill

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not following you ?
Blessings
Bill

There are two questions here:
1) Calvinism vs not
2) What happens to a person who has never heard of Christ during this life?

Question #1 is the subject of this thread. Bringing up the large Arab world is talking about question #2.